Small part in Dany 3rd in ADWD

[Charming Serpent]

Well, I was reading spoilers and this might be old news, but it proves some of my theories wrong and some of your right.

I.E. Fake Aegons coming to Dany, Connington being alive. ( You guys were right.

Here you are ....

Quaithe says this in the third Dany chapter of ADwD:

"The glass candles are burning. Soon comes the pale mare. After her will come the others: crow and kraken, lion and griffin, sun's son and the mummer's dragon. Remember the undying. Beware the perfumed seneschal."

The lion was assumed to be Tyrion, the griffin to be Jon Connington (i.e., 'Griff'). The kraken now appears to be Victarion Greyjoy _but_ Euron is staying on the Iron Isles (he says "I want you to bring her to me") so the crow has to be somebody else. The sun's son is Quentyn Martell, based on the "Princess in the Tower" chapter.

And the mummer's dragon may well be Aurane Waters, who has now disappeared with his fleet of drommonds; look at his description, where Cersei confuses him for Rhaegar Targaryen. If Aurane came forward and said, "I'm Aegon Targaryen," would anybody at Slaver's Bay know him well enough to tell him no? (And if they did, he could just say that he was hidden by loyalists in Driftmark and held under an assumed name.)

One question remains though: Who is the Pale Mare? What woman could be that role? My guess, a wild theory at best, is it might be a female descendant of Bittersteel, who leads the Golden Company. I believe they will arrive first, before the others as stated above. Bittersteel's sigil was a mare etc... And she would have Targaryen blood. Oh, thats a good one.

 

[pan naranus]

the crow

Its seems quit obvious to me - Sam Tarly, Sam the slayer, a crow of the night watch. The mage seemed quit enthusiastic and on his was to Dany, and he is Sam’s patron.on that note, is there any chance that Sam is going to be a mage rather than a plain master of the citadel?

 

[The Curious Orange]

Is the pale mare not the slave girl Dany rescues at Ashanti (can't remember her name)? I'm fairly sure she has a greater part to play yet. The "perfumed seneschal" is clearly Varys.

 

[Koopa]

Quaithe says this in the third Dany chapter of ADwD:

"The glass candles are burning. Soon comes the pale mare. After her will come the others: crow and kraken, lion and griffin, sun's son and the mummer's dragon. Remember the undying. Beware the perfumed seneschal."

This is what i think :
- Pale Mare: either Aurane Waters, the ******* of Driftmark who's signal (if am not wrong wich i very well might), is a seahorse. Or a descendant of the Great Bastards, there was one who had a winged horse as his sigil.

- Crow: Maester Marwyn who comes in Sam's place.
- Kraken: Vication Greyjoy
- Lion: Tyrion Lannister
-Griffin: Either Young or Old Griff --> Jon Connington or his son.
- Sun's son: Doran Martell 'whatshisnameagain' son.

- Mummer's Dragon: Either a descendant of the Great Bastards or and this is a very long shot, a descendant of the girl in the shortstory with Dunk.

- perfumed Seneschal: I think that means Ilyrio Mopatis or varys, could also be the one who offered Dany the ships, but he was not descripted as perfumed. (Come to think of it one might theorize they got a whole mastermind sheme of their own)

 

[viZion]

Where are you reading these spoilers and are they reliable? Can I get a link?

 

[Koopa]

A Song of Ice and Fire (Powered by Invision Power Board)

You'll find the spoilers chapters on that forum

 

[Charming Serpent]

Kiwi, i think u have a thing backwards imo. I think the Pale Mare is one of the descendants of the Great Batstards i.e. Bittersteel. That horse was his sigil. I also think the Mummer's dragon is Aurane Waters faking as Aegon, but then again, as this thrread shows, I have been wrong before

I point to Pale Mare NOT being Waters because Quaithe says "After HER comes the others ...."

I don't think Sam is the Crow. He was told to stay in Oldtown and work on his maester chain and that takes some time. The Mage told him to start for he would be needed on the wall soon. I believe the Crow is the one from one of Danys' visions that the undying showed her. "Of the corpse with bright eyes standing at the prow of a ship with a drowned crow on its shoulder smiling sadly."

 

[Boaz]

First, the symbols seem to blatantly mirror the heraldry of various noble houses. And do you notice the pairings of the symbols? Could this signify alliances? I doubt it... the Lannisters & Conningtons and Martells & Fake Targaryens would seem to have opposite agendas. Mayhaps they happen to arrive in pairs...

I've not read the Dunk'nEgg novellas so I cannot intelligently comment (like, that ever stopped me before) on Bittersteel or the Pale Mare.

I have serious doubts as to whether Marwyn is the Crow. He is the Mastiff. A dog. Sure he got info from Sam, but he's more about his own agenda than Sam's. Only if Marwyn portrays himself as Aemon's representative could he be construed as a Crow, but if he's Aemon's representative, then mayhaps a Dragon would be more fitting. Anyway, Marwyn has not left yet, he may yet take Sam with him. For example, say Marwyn thinks that Oldtown is too dangerous for Sam (with his trusting nature and loose lips) and so takes Sam with him to the East.

I think Crow means someone directly from the Night's Watch. I surmise that after Aemon left, Jon read the books that Aemon gave him. Then Jon heard rumor of Dany and/or read a private note from Aemon and is sending his own emissary to Dany. Whom would Jon send? Denys Mallister, Cotter Pyke, and Janos Slynt were the other top vote getters in the election. Slynt is a self-serving lickspittle. Mallister and Pyke are both capable men.

Kraken surely means Victarion.

Lion probably means Tyrion. Though I remind you that Tyrek is still lost... and Tywin's brother Gerion disappeared in the East roughly twenty years ago.

Griffin means Jon Connington, unless Jon Connington really did drink himself to death. This would mean that one of Connington's servants raised the Young Griffin... whether the Young Griff is a Targ or not remains to be seen.

Tristayne Martell is travelling with five companions. One of whom is a Maester. My original thought was that Varys is the perfumed seneschal, but it might be this maester of Tris'.

The Mummer's Dragon... hmmmm. This seems to imply a false Targaryen. Aurane Waters and Young Griff both seem to be possible candidates. But don't discount Varys.

Varys might be a Targ ******* or lesser cousin who's been biding his time for revenge and power. How did Varys learn the passages of the Red Keep? Mayhaps by being raised there as a royal family member privy to Jahaerys' and Aerys' secrets. Mayhaps his birth name was Vaerys or Visaerys... Also, Varys told Tyrion that he was a mummer in his early life.

What does "remember the undying" mean? Do those words specifically relate to the Mummer's Dragon, the Sun's Son and the Mummer's Dragon, or the Perfumed Seneschal? Looks like we have some re-reading to do over Christmas.

Also, this cryptic prophecy of Quaithe's is meaningful for what it does not say. Kraken, Crow, Mare, Lion, Griffin, Sun, Dragon, and Seneshcal are all mentioned, yet she is silent regarding Wolf, Fish, Rose, Storm, Stag, Fiery Heart, Sparrow, Sheep, and Falcon/Mockingbird/Finger.

I take this to mean that neither Arya, Edric Storm, Loras, nor an emissary from Baelish will arrive. This means that Arya is in the House of Black and White to stay. This also means that Loras indeed appears to be upon his deathbed and that the Tyrells are not planning on couping the Lions for the Dragons. It seems that Littlefinger is not accounting for Dany (which seems out of place for him) or that he is already allied with someone who is courting Dany.

The lack of mention of sheep (Marwyn, Qyburn, and Leo Tyrell mock the Maesters as the Grey Sheep) and sparrows tends to make me think 1) that either the Maesters and the Septons as of yet have no clue about Dany, 2) that the Maesters and Septons refuse to ally with House Targaryen, or 3) that they are planning on killing Dany rather than work for her.

One thought on Edric Storm... Edric is a ******* Stag and Fox. The Stags themselves were originally ******* Dragons. It's a stretch, yet mayhaps Edric is the mummer's dragon.

Nowhere in this guesswork could I fit in Rickon, Darkstar, the Sphinx, Davos, the Hound... though if GRRM means for Marwyn to be the Crow, it would be better if he calls him a Dog because this would throw us off the scent trying to guess Marwyn or Sandor.

 

[Koopa]

Kiwi, i think u have a thing backwards imo. I think the Pale Mare is one of the descendants of the Great Batstards i.e. Bittersteel. That horse was his sigil. I also think the Mummer's dragon is Aurane Waters faking as Aegon, but then again, as this thrread shows, I have been wrong before

I point to Pale Mare NOT being Waters because Quaithe says "After HER comes the others ...."

I don't think Sam is the Crow. He was told to stay in Oldtown and work on his maester chain and that takes some time. The Mage told him to start for he would be needed on the wall soon. I believe the Crow is the one from one of Danys' visions that the undying showed her. "Of the corpse with bright eyes standing at the prow of a ship with a drowned crow on its shoulder smiling sadly."

I did say or a descendant of... i just think aurane also a possibility. Also i think her refers more to the sigil of the pale mare, mare being a female horse, then the gender of the person in question.

That is why i think Marwyn will come instead of Sam, as for the crow on the ship, that is Dany her vision of Aemon. He was having fever dreams while standing on the prow of the ship when he, sam and dareon travelled to oldtown.

 

[Koopa]

The Mummer's Dragon... hmmmm. This seems to imply a false Targaryen. Aurane Waters and Young Griff both seem to be possible candidates. But don't discount Varys.

Varys might be a Targ ******* or lesser cousin who's been biding his time for revenge and power. How did Varys learn the passages of the Red Keep? Mayhaps by being raised there as a royal family member privy to Jahaerys' and Aerys' secrets. Mayhaps his birth name was Vaerys or Visaerys... Also, Varys told Tyrion that he was a mummer in his early life.

What does "remember the undying" mean? Do those words specifically relate to the Mummer's Dragon, the Sun's Son and the Mummer's Dragon, or the Perfumed Seneschal? Looks like we have some re-reading to do over Christmas.

Good find on Varys being an ex-mummer.
As for Remember the undying. Beware the Seneschal.
That is one of the reasons why i think the Seneschal refers to Ilyrio Mopatis. In the house of undying , dany was first friendly met, before they tried to stab her in the back and kill her. So it is with Ilyrio, he has somewhat befriended Dany, and like the sorcerers of the house of undying he stands poised to stab her in the back. Besides that, the way his house and social standing is depicted he fits the bill of seneschal. moreover he himself has mentioned that he is less then loyal to the Targaryens, and that he will do whatever is best for him regarding her.

 

[DeannaBelle]

I believe the Crow is the one from one of Danys' visions that the undying showed her. "Of the corpse with bright eyes standing at the prow of a ship with a drowned crow on its shoulder smiling sadly."

"Drowned crow"? I've been thinking about these Greyjoys and their Drowed God and weird religious uncle. When i first heard of Papa Greyjoys' death, I thought maybe he could wash up again, all holy like his brother. But no. I believe he's dead.

Anyway, I would like to think Sam remains in the citadel to learn. Also, I am not too fond of any of those crows ("crow and cranken" and Dany's "drowned crow") being Greyjoys.

I hope its simply another brother from the night's watch. Maybe that's where Benjen's gone! j/k

 

[DeannaBelle]

As far as "after her come others," I don't necessarily think they will be on her side. They be coming "after" her. Likely, many people just want a peice of her. For the pairings, I don't believe them to be alliances so much as opposites, specifically to show that all kinds of people will be after her.

 

[Boaz]

In my last post I mentioned that Tristayne Martell is voyaging to find Dany. I was wrong, I meant Quentyn. This cast of thousands can be confusing.

 

[DeannaBelle]

I have looked for the spoiler chapters on the aforementioned forum, but I couldn't find anything. The site is terrible for the eye, too messy for me to find anything.

 

[DeannaBelle]

Well, I just found outlines of the chapters, but they were just summaries given by readers. We all know GRRM is all about the details, so the summaries aren't worth much. They're just little teasers.

 

[Koopa]

They are from when GRMM has read a chapter on some convention, you cant expect people to remember word for word, still much new information gets know like this.

 

[viZion]

They are from when GRMM has read a chapter on some convention, you cant expect people to remember word for word, still much new information gets know like this.

I've always wondered why none of these people that write those summaries ever thought to bring an audio or video recorder. I'm guessing that those devices aren't allowed because it would be way more useful to have GRRM's exact words rather the summaries. Better than nothing though, that's for sure!

 

[Stellar]

I think the prophecy is addressed, not to Dany, but to Quaithe's home, Asshai. If you read it like that, the 'pale mare' is in fact Dany herself, a Dothraki horse queen, and indicates that soon she will come to Asshai.

That further makes sense of 'remember the undying' because Dany sought help from the undying and then Drogon burned them when they betrayed her. Considering Dany's track record with towns she occupies, it'd make sense for the Asshai'i to remember the undying, Astopor, Yunkai and Mereen when they're dealing with her.

'Beware the perfumed seneschal' also suggests that Varys will get to Asshai before Dany does, and announce her coming, and turn out to be the manipulative jerk we all know he is.

As to the rest of it, 'come after' further suggests that all the houses whose sigils are mentioned will follow Dany to Asshai.

crow: No idea
kraken: Victarion Greyjoy
lion: Tyrion Lannister
griffin: Jon Connington
sun's son: Quentyn Martell
mummer's dragon: Aurane Waters, styling himself as Aegon Targaryen.

 

[TK-421]

Stellar, good work and welcome.

The Auranne Waters one is a nice touch.

Crow could be either Euron Crow's Eye, Samwell Tarly or Brandon Stark. In my humble opinion, Sam is the likely candidate.

 

[Charming Serpent]

Wow, I never thought of it that way Stellar. Looking at it like that, it makes more sense. Cept for the Crow part.