Magician The Movie?
- Thread starter Fake Vencar
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Sounds like you're about to discover Janny Wurts, Ross, if you've not read her stuff previously. Beware: If you find yourself enjoying the series as much as I did, you'll suddenly find you have a lot more books to buy and a WHOLE lot more reading to do!
Coming back to the movie, though, I really hope they do a stand-up-and-cheer job of it; one of my favorite SFF scenes ever is in Magician. When Milamber attends the Emperor's birthday and witnesses the execution of Midkemian soldiers-turned-slaves in the arena, the description of what he does next is both Feist at his ABSOLUTE best AND Pug/Milamber at his most charismatic. You know it's going to be in the film because there are far too many aspects of that scene that scream "drama". It would really be dreadful, therefore, to have to watch some hack butcher that moment by not giving the build-up to it enough attention.
Coming back to the movie, though, I really hope they do a stand-up-and-cheer job of it; one of my favorite SFF scenes ever is in Magician. When Milamber attends the Emperor's birthday and witnesses the execution of Midkemian soldiers-turned-slaves in the arena, the description of what he does next is both Feist at his ABSOLUTE best AND Pug/Milamber at his most charismatic. You know it's going to be in the film because there are far too many aspects of that scene that scream "drama". It would really be dreadful, therefore, to have to watch some hack butcher that moment by not giving the build-up to it enough attention.
Ross
Born For The Greater Good
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Sounds like you're about to discover Janny Wurts, Ross, if you've not read her stuff previously. Beware: If you find yourself enjoying the series as much as I did, you'll suddenly find you have a lot more books to buy and a WHOLE lot more reading to do!
Coming back to the movie, though, I really hope they do a stand-up-and-cheer job of it; one of my favorite SFF scenes ever is in Magician. When Milamber attends the Emperor's birthday and witnesses the execution of Midkemian soldiers-turned-slaves in the arena, the description of what he does next is both Feist at his ABSOLUTE best AND Pug/Milamber at his most charismatic. You know it's going to be in the film because there are far too many aspects of that scene that scream "drama". It would really be dreadful, therefore, to have to watch some hack butcher that moment by not giving the build-up to it enough attention.
That was a fantastic part. It's weird how it doesn't happen very often throughout the books though, but I suppose if Pug did use his extraordinary powers alot more then the whole series would have been over in 500pages.
On Janny Wurts, I'm just going to carry on reading Feist until I can't get a copy of the "next" book that I want to read. Then i'm going to get Robin Hobb's farseer trilogy, Stephen Donaldson's Second Chronicles of Thomas Covenant and Steven Erikson's Malazan Empire Series. So much I want to read and so little time (I reckon I have at least 60years left in me
)
Ross
Born For The Greater Good
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Ah, but the Empire series is written by both Feist and Wurts, good sir. And once hooked by Janny.....
Just read the first chapter
Should be good!The LOTR movies put me to sleep.
I really didn't like Jackson's take on LOTR at all
I tried reading the Empire series ... and it bored me almost as much at the hatchet job done by Jackson on LOTR
Sorry to hear that, Trib. Did you feel that way about Magician (the book that established Kelewan, the world in which the Empire Series occurs), too?
Not sure that I've extended a welcome previously so....Welcome to The Chrons!
Not sure that I've extended a welcome previously so....Welcome to The Chrons!
Ross
Born For The Greater Good
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Surprised about this. But everyone has a different liking!
I found that I was hooked after the 3rd chapter of the first book.
Alas, I warned you, if "warned" is the right word....
Janny usually needs a little set up time, and then things start to move. Once they do, look out! I see Ray's structure in the books, but Janny's prose, although if you haven't read Janny before, it might be a little hard to pick things apart in quite this manner (I'd read Sorceror's Legacy and the Cycle of Fire series from Janny prior to the Empire series). Did you finish all three books already?!!
Janny usually needs a little set up time, and then things start to move. Once they do, look out! I see Ray's structure in the books, but Janny's prose, although if you haven't read Janny before, it might be a little hard to pick things apart in quite this manner (I'd read Sorceror's Legacy and the Cycle of Fire series from Janny prior to the Empire series). Did you finish all three books already?!!
Ah, Grim one, you did indeed warn him. I got my start on Janny's stuff with Empire, and an auspicious beginning it was. However, I was led to that by Fiest's Magician, which I thought brilliant when I read it in 1986 (in one trade volume, not two paperbacks. It was in fact split in two for the mass market editions on the western side of the Pond). I have not returned to it in the 20-plus years since, and I am due for a re-read, perhaps of the anniversary edition.
A movie of Magician? I'm sorry, but unless they want to do a duology or a trilogy, the screen play will be nothing but a hack job. Jackson, for all of his faults, at least gave LOTR enough screen time for the story to make sense, and he took several years to produce a screen play that supported that vision. Magician is a really big book, and if it is cut too much, as with any story, it will come out really crappy on the big screen. Just look at what happened to Dune, back in the early 1980's. Absolutely horrible, because, in part, about four hours of film ended up on the cutting room floor, so that they could produce a 2 hour movie.
Better to have a mini-series on HBO, like GRRM's A Song of Ice and Fire. They tend to do things much better than most of Hollywood. Or if a decent director and studio are willing to get behind a decent-length screen play, they actually might pull it off in two movies.
A movie of Magician? I'm sorry, but unless they want to do a duology or a trilogy, the screen play will be nothing but a hack job. Jackson, for all of his faults, at least gave LOTR enough screen time for the story to make sense, and he took several years to produce a screen play that supported that vision. Magician is a really big book, and if it is cut too much, as with any story, it will come out really crappy on the big screen. Just look at what happened to Dune, back in the early 1980's. Absolutely horrible, because, in part, about four hours of film ended up on the cutting room floor, so that they could produce a 2 hour movie.
Better to have a mini-series on HBO, like GRRM's A Song of Ice and Fire. They tend to do things much better than most of Hollywood. Or if a decent director and studio are willing to get behind a decent-length screen play, they actually might pull it off in two movies.
Ross
Born For The Greater Good
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Alas, I warned you, if "warned" is the right word....
Janny usually needs a little set up time, and then things start to move. Once they do, look out! I see Ray's structure in the books, but Janny's prose, although if you haven't read Janny before, it might be a little hard to pick things apart in quite this manner (I'd read Sorceror's Legacy and the Cycle of Fire series from Janny prior to the Empire series). Did you finish all three books already?!!
I have 124 pages left of the 3rd book. I read alot. (at work...but shhh don't tell the boss- im glad they arn't bothered aslong as the work gets done)
I really want to read more of Janny after this but I don't think I want to cut off from REF until i've finished everything.
If I did what should I start with?
Ross:
Hop on over to Janny Wurts' sub-forum, which was started up in the Chrons a few weeks back. Here is the link, for faster action: http://www.sffchronicles.co.uk/forum/janny-wurts/
I don't want to get hijacking threads, but since you asked, I will briefly answer:
I would send you first to reading To Ride Hell's Chasm, which is a one shot novel, fairly recent, and shows off her style really well. Then, I'd send you into her grand epic (currently at 8 books, and heading for a finish at 11 books. The ninth is due out next year) of The Wars of Light and Shadow, starting with Curse of the Mistwraith. Watch out in those threads in her sub-forum, though, because spoilers are everywhere, and she specializes in surprises for her readers.
Fans of Feist often enjoy Wurts, which isn't a surprise given their collaboration and friendship, but their styles are quite different. Wurts is definitely more complex and thought-provoking, and her characterization is better than anybody else in this field, IMHO.
Hop on over to Janny Wurts' sub-forum, which was started up in the Chrons a few weeks back. Here is the link, for faster action: http://www.sffchronicles.co.uk/forum/janny-wurts/
I don't want to get hijacking threads, but since you asked, I will briefly answer:
I would send you first to reading To Ride Hell's Chasm, which is a one shot novel, fairly recent, and shows off her style really well. Then, I'd send you into her grand epic (currently at 8 books, and heading for a finish at 11 books. The ninth is due out next year) of The Wars of Light and Shadow, starting with Curse of the Mistwraith. Watch out in those threads in her sub-forum, though, because spoilers are everywhere, and she specializes in surprises for her readers.
Fans of Feist often enjoy Wurts, which isn't a surprise given their collaboration and friendship, but their styles are quite different. Wurts is definitely more complex and thought-provoking, and her characterization is better than anybody else in this field, IMHO.
Really?
I got the Empire trilogy for my birthday. I would never have bought them myself because the two books (Jimmy the Hand and Murder in LaMut) of Feist+other I'd read earlier were simply horrible imo.
Anyway, so I was quite sure it wouldn't be worth my time, but decided to read a bit before deciding wether or not to trade them in for something else at the bookshop..
I read about two or three chapters from the first book, and if I didn't have the option to trade them in I probably would've thrown them out in disgust
From what I read, I would think Wurts' writing style is a horribly slow read, with very few surprises if at all, too dull to be thought-provoking and too much time spent on characterization.
Maybe the best way to describe what I thought of what little I read from Daughter of the Empire would be to compare Wurts to Robert Jordan. Imo, Robert Jordan's series The Wheel of Time has a good story but is very slow to read and is too annoyingly over-the-top in characterization. Well, from what I read in Daughter of the Empire Wurts is even worse in this.
Combine this with me not liking drawn-out stories that aren't rich with plots and story (which I assume the Empire trilogy lacks because of it being a side-story), and that's why I traded them in.
But your post makes me think I might have judged too soon..
Perhaps a wee bit of shooting from the hip. I think Ross and Grimward would agree that Empire is as rich as any Feist novel in plot and development, but has a greater depth of characterization. To me, it was a little more sophisticated.
I know that Grimward would agree that Wurts' big series, The Wars of Light and Shadow, stands shoulder to shoulder with GRR Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire and Steven Erikson's Malazan books with complexity of plot development, but the characters are simply BETTER. Also, more balance between light and dark, instead of just dark. And all apologies to RJ fans, but WoT is not in the same league by a long shot. WoLaS is way more complex, and it keeps evolving, where WoT got pretty stuck around book 7.
Mind you, Wurts writes at a very advanced level, and her prose, though I love it, is a bit of an acquired taste, like fine Scotch whiskey, unless you are used to reading graduate-level prose. This isn't so present in the Empire series. It is also why I recommend people to read To Ride Hell's Chasm. It starts as a mystery, and then explodes into incredibly fast paced action from the half-way marker to the end of the book. In that, it is similar to all of the rest of her books that I have read. Her pacing is brilliant.
Hello all,
I personally think Magician would make a fantastic story, and it would be well worth the money invested to create all the scenery. It's true that there is a lot of stuff to cover, but it's by no means impossible. It could be done in 2 films, just as released in America, and that way producers could pace themselves. I suggest they audition for the part of Pug and Thomas and have newcomers play those roles, while using more established actors to fill up other roles. Macros could be played by McKellen perhaps, haha.
If Magician were made into a film I'd go and see it without a doubt, even if it were awful. How much better then, if it were made with care and attention to detail, and with a good budget. The story is gripping and the characters are fresh and interesting. It's calling out to be made into a film!
I personally think Magician would make a fantastic story, and it would be well worth the money invested to create all the scenery. It's true that there is a lot of stuff to cover, but it's by no means impossible. It could be done in 2 films, just as released in America, and that way producers could pace themselves. I suggest they audition for the part of Pug and Thomas and have newcomers play those roles, while using more established actors to fill up other roles. Macros could be played by McKellen perhaps, haha.
If Magician were made into a film I'd go and see it without a doubt, even if it were awful. How much better then, if it were made with care and attention to detail, and with a good budget. The story is gripping and the characters are fresh and interesting. It's calling out to be made into a film!
I have had a plan/thought about this for a long time and i have got a little "thesis" as a good way to do a film version of Magician.
First of all, i'm sorry for posible tangents and any difficulties you may have reading this, because i'm not very good at transfering my thoughts/ideas into words on paper/interwebs.
The best way i could see it done is not as an Live-Action film but either as an Animation similar to a Video Game Cinematic (See video games such as Star Wars: The Old Republic, where the cinematics look almost like it was actually a Live-action film) or Like the way they made the recent Reboot of Tintin in 2011, using animation on top of actuall actors, (Similar to the way they make Gollum/Smeagol in the LOTR/Hobbit films). This way, if the film becomes a commerical success, you could easily expand into the rest of the rift war and even the other major sagas like the Serpent war, talon of the silver hawk, demon war, ect. Without the problems of actors and age, because for a modern feature film, it takes about a year, maybe to to do all of the filming, pre-production, post-production, ect. Especially to make a film with this many Fantasy elements it would use a lot of CGI enhancement to make the film, and for around twenty to thirty books that could be anywhere to 15-30 years for the entire series, and though we as readers have waited this long, there will be no profit for studios to make films this way. But a team of animators working on something like this may only take a little less time, there is less actors who will need shcedules worked around them, the process would work faster, especially if a main series is outlined the working would baisicly be seamless between films, or with the rise of Game of Thrones, a T.V series done this way. But, if it were my way i would be using well know actors that could play the roles very well, but just as voice actors. i do not 100% know if this actually a good idea this is just a really rough draft i have been working on for a while now, and hopefully with enough support and luck, after i finish film school (hopefully in around 2 years) i may be able to attempt this... or it will just go down as the scibbling of an insane man, any feedback is defenetly welcome (unless you all are just gonna put me down like a bunch of Mo****Fu***rs)
First of all, i'm sorry for posible tangents and any difficulties you may have reading this, because i'm not very good at transfering my thoughts/ideas into words on paper/interwebs.
The best way i could see it done is not as an Live-Action film but either as an Animation similar to a Video Game Cinematic (See video games such as Star Wars: The Old Republic, where the cinematics look almost like it was actually a Live-action film) or Like the way they made the recent Reboot of Tintin in 2011, using animation on top of actuall actors, (Similar to the way they make Gollum/Smeagol in the LOTR/Hobbit films). This way, if the film becomes a commerical success, you could easily expand into the rest of the rift war and even the other major sagas like the Serpent war, talon of the silver hawk, demon war, ect. Without the problems of actors and age, because for a modern feature film, it takes about a year, maybe to to do all of the filming, pre-production, post-production, ect. Especially to make a film with this many Fantasy elements it would use a lot of CGI enhancement to make the film, and for around twenty to thirty books that could be anywhere to 15-30 years for the entire series, and though we as readers have waited this long, there will be no profit for studios to make films this way. But a team of animators working on something like this may only take a little less time, there is less actors who will need shcedules worked around them, the process would work faster, especially if a main series is outlined the working would baisicly be seamless between films, or with the rise of Game of Thrones, a T.V series done this way. But, if it were my way i would be using well know actors that could play the roles very well, but just as voice actors. i do not 100% know if this actually a good idea this is just a really rough draft i have been working on for a while now, and hopefully with enough support and luck, after i finish film school (hopefully in around 2 years) i may be able to attempt this... or it will just go down as the scibbling of an insane man, any feedback is defenetly welcome (unless you all are just gonna put me down like a bunch of Mo****Fu***rs)
Like the thoughts and conjecture, fingy; even though the technology is there now to provide almost seamless imagery I think you're right that it would take a while to represent the story WELL. And you've been here long enough to know that your parenthetical last statement isn't necessary...folks here might criticize the idea, but they don't last long if they criticize the person conveying it.
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