Religion and Science Fiction

[iansales]

the illustration in the book is a black and white line drawing, it hasn't been coloured in at all,

Some portions of the drawing have been blacked in, increasing its likeness to an astronaut in a spaceship.

there are many other things about our past that still haven't been satisfactorily answered that Von Daniken didn't mention.

In other words, he picks only those which might fit his theories...

why are extraterrestrials more unlikely than a Supreme being/God/Creator?

I never said there was a God. I suppose one is as likely as the other, but then I don't believe in either.

the Universe is a big place and many respected scientists believe that intelligent life has, does or will exist somewhere else out there.
what is preposterous about the idea that they visited us and helped shape homo sapiens as a race at a time when we, as a species, were not advanced enough to completely understand their nature, but still associated them with the stars?

Far too many things are preposterous about it:

1) how did they get here? The distances involved are, well, astronomical.
2) why would they come here?
3) if they did come here, why did they leave?
4) if they did come here, why help us?
5) why is the "evidence" of their visit so ambiguous as to prove nothing?

why do so many of the Gods travell in flying chariots? especially those that are omnipotent who should not have any need for transport.
why do ancient texts describe wars fought with weapons of mass destruction that were unrecognisable untill the invention and use of atomic weapons?

Gods have great powers. That's why they're gods. There wouldn't be much point in having gods who were like normal people. You may as well worship your next-door neighbour. And how is he going to intercede when your son dies in a freak agricultural accident? Besides, why should your next-door neighbour pick one person to be king and then allow himself to be ordered about by him?

 

[Urlik]

Some portions of the drawing have been blacked in, increasing its likeness to an astronaut in a spaceship.

the blacked in areas do not really increase its likeness to an astronaut in a spaceship

In other words, he picks only those which might fit his theories...

many of the still unexplained mysteries that he didn't mention do fit his hypothesis (it isn't a theory, as he himself states that there is no proof, just a different interpretation of ancient texts and unexplained things in our past)

I never said there was a God. I suppose one is as likely as the other, but then I don't believe in either.

fair enough

Far too many things are preposterous about it:

1) how did they get here? The distances involved are, well, astronomical.
2) why would they come here?
3) if they did come here, why did they leave?
4) if they did come here, why help us?
5) why is the "evidence" of their visit so ambiguous as to prove nothing?

1) that would depend on their technology. FTL space flight, wormholes, etc.
2) looking for a new home or just passing by Star Trek style
3) maybe they didn't leave and we are their descendants
4) maybe we were more use to them civilised
5) why are there so many legends/myths/religious texts that could describe contact with extraterrestrials?

Gods have great powers. That's why they're gods. There wouldn't be much point in having gods who were like normal people. You may as well worship your next-door neighbour. And how is he going to intercede when your son dies in a freak agricultural accident? Besides, why should your next-door neighbour pick one person to be king and then allow himself to be ordered about by him?

true, but if you accept the existence of Gods with great powers, and that the great powers make them Gods, where did they come from?
according to Arthur C Clarke, any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic, with the 3rd corollary being "Any technology, no matter how primitive, is magic to those who do not understand it."

in the Mahabharata, Gurkha flying in his swift and powerful Vimana hurled against the three cities of the Vrishis and Andhakas a single projectile charged with all the power of the Universe. An incandescent column of smoke and fire, as brilliant as ten thousands suns, rose in all its splendor. It was the unknown weapon, the Iron Thunderbolt, a gigantic messenger of death which reduced to ashesthe entire race of the Vrishnis and Andhakas.

to a primitive people this seems like magic, yet in 1945, something similar happened and today there are at least 8 world leaders who could order the launching of an ICBM with a similar result.

 

[iansales]

in the Mahabharata, Gurkha flying in his swift and powerful Vimana hurled against the three cities of the Vrishis and Andhakas a single projectile charged with all the power of the Universe. An incandescent column of smoke and fire, as brilliant as ten thousands suns, rose in all its splendor. It was the unknown weapon, the Iron Thunderbolt, a gigantic messenger of death which reduced to ashesthe entire race of the Vrishnis and Andhakas.

to a primitive people this seems like magic, yet in 1945, something similar happened and today there are at least 8 world leaders who could order the launching of an ICBM with a similar result.

The problem here is that you're applying a modern-day mindset to something which was not written in the modern day. Someone living 100 years ago would have interpreted the above differently. someone living 100 years from now may well interpret it in yet another fashion. The past, as they say, is another country; they do things differently there. The writers of the Mahabarata (and other texts) are trying to apply a narrative to history in an attmept to make sense of it. And you in turn are applying another narrative to what they have written in order to make what you feel is sense of it.

When a car hits a tree and the driver is killed, there is usually no reason for the death. There might be an understandable sequence of events which caused it, but no reason why that person should die at that point in time. People gain comfort by looking for meaning in things they don't understand - and if no meaning is obvious, they decide it is the result of action by an outside agency. Which, funnily enough, can be understood. For all God's declared omnipotence and omniscience, we still claim to understand His motivations.

The same is true of extraterresticals. In that respect, I suppose the two are similar. But I think it's ourselves who apply meaning here, and I think that's why we often find what we're looking for.

 

[Urlik]

I know I am applying a modern mindset to it, that is the point.
there are things in history that untill recently didn't make sense.
the Mahabharata describes a single projectille with the power to destroy a city and today we have projectiles that fit the description.
is the Mahabharata pure fantasy that has come to be realised or is it an actual account of the use of an atomic weapon in our distant past?

I don't claim to know the answer, but I haven't ruled out the possibility that either there was a much higher level of scientific knowledge in our past (either terrestrial or extraterrestrial in origin)

 

[Cheehwawa]

Hmmmm. Well the aliens themselves arent the Gods in my novel. But their leader has ascended to become a God... and the Devil.


Personally, I think the idea of aliens influencing modern humans couldve lead to our stories about God and Gods. No real proof, but humans naturally take something great and twist it to make it sound even greater.

"How big was that fish, Ted?"
"That sunofabitch was 5 feet long! Yeehaw!"

5 days later

"How big was that fish, Ted?"
"That sonofabitch was 15 feet long! Caught him with my bare hands! Yeehaw!"


Humans have been around for some 200,000 years. What caused us to start migrating out of Africa 60,000 years ago? Who knows. But its fun to speculate.

What is aliens visited Earth and found potential in humanity. They influenced tribes of humans who moved into the then-dry Persian Gulf (pre glacial melt) in the area known as Eden. This civilization flourished some 20,000 years ago, living among the Grey aliens. And then the ice age ended and waters rushed around the low-elevation areas. Eden floods, some lucky humans flee and settle Mesopotamia.... they are forever ingrained with the stories of the mighty and god-like Grey aliens, making stories about them. Cultures like the Greeks and Jews that come into contact with them like the stories and adapt them to their own liking, forming Gods like Zeus and the God of judaism/christianity/islam.

Maybe the Greys also influenced the creation of the pyramids, and the mayan civilization. Maybe they are the "men from the sea" who left long ago and would return to the mayans one day.

Cool story. Reality? Probably not.

 

[iansales]

The same is true of extraterresticals.

WTF? Extraterresticals? I need to watch what I'm typing

 

[Urlik]

WTF? Extraterresticals? I need to watch what I'm typing

LOL I thought it was intentional, some sort of polyorchid reference