Book length - Is this a worrying new trend

[Teresa Edgerton]

Teresa - It was certainly not my intention to distress anyone.

It didn't used to distress me; it just used to be irritating; but I've heard so much of it, by now it makes me feel weary and sad.

I think the SFF community should stick together and stop slamming each other's taste in public. (The rest of the world is usually willing to do that for us.)

It's surprisingly easy to say what we like and why we like it -- or what we don't see enough of and would like to see more of -- without characterizing what other people like as drivel. But there's this comparison thing that people get into.

Let me repeat this: I myself would be happier if books were shorter. I would also be happier if they were written with more love and skill and craft, more attention to the beauty and power of words, rather than being so plot-heavy and crowded with incident. I'd be happier as a reader, I would be happier as a writer.

But those weighty tomes have one great virtue, and this is that they are bringing a lot of pleasure to a lot of people. And since those are also the people who are buying most of the books, that's what publishers are buying at the moment.

It's my personal belief that no one should ever write anything they can't put their heart into. (Of course I don't run the world, so a lot of people do it anyway.) But most of the writers that I know are capable of falling in love with more than one idea. And right now, if you are writing in SF or fantasy -- and you're not aiming for younger readers -- and if you want to sell what you write, then it's a very good idea to spend a little time wooing whichever of your ideas seems the most likely to fill out a long book. At least court it long enough to see if a relationship develops.

Sorry for the rant, but this is the reality, and no amount of complaining about publishers or the quality of the books already on the shelves is going to change that.

* * * * *

On a slightly different note, if you're already engaged in a project, don't be afraid of overwriting, rambling on, wandering off into digressions. You can always cut them out later if you decide it's all too much -- on the other hand, those just might turn out to be some of the best parts of your story; they may include some treasures that have been hiding there in your unconscious (sly things that they are) waiting for you to discover them. You'll never know if you don't first put them into writing.

 

[Zubi-Ondo]

Let me repeat this: I myself would be happier if books were shorter. I would also be happier if they were written with more love and skill and craft, more attention to the beauty and power of words, rather than being so plot-heavy and crowded with incident. I'd be happier as a reader, I would be happier as a writer.

I totally agree. Like I said before, I have a busy life and I wish I had more time to read, but I don't. So I try to choose wisely.

It's my personal belief that no one should ever write anything they can't put their heart into.

I couldn't agree more - this is exactly what I'm doing.

(Of course I don't run the world, so a lot of people do it anyway.)

Theresa for Emperor! Long live the Queen!

On a slightly different note, if you're already engaged in a project, don't be afraid of overwriting, rambling on, wandering off into digressions. You can always cut them out later if you decide it's all too much -- on the other hand, those just might turn out to be some of the best parts of your story; they may include some treasures that have been hiding there in your unconscious (sly things that they are) waiting for you to discover them. You'll never know if you don't first put them into writing.

This is very insightful advice, and I can tell it comes from a wealth of experience. Perhaps it should be in the writing resources section under "Author's advice".

- Z.

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

Theresa for Emperor! Long live the Queen!

Thank you, Zubi. If I ever decide to run for that office, I'll remember that I have your vote.

But, as I said up above, the platform I'd be running on wouldn't be limited to "write what you love," but would also include "an author's heart should be big enough to embrace more than one kind (or length) of project."

(Gosh, maybe I should make a list of all these pity little gems of wisdom I've been spouting about the boards and post them somewhere.)

 

[TheEndIsNigh]

It's my personal belief that...

and

....On a slightly different note, if you're already engaged in a project...

Teresa: Now much as it pains me to admit this (I am a male after all) I find myself agreeing to the sentiment of this these last two points.

I.E. I think you are right!

(of course any repetition of this admission, will of course be denied. Lets keep it just between the two of us.)

Having run through various sections of my efforts so far, I find there several passages nay, even whole chapters I could easily write to enhance and expand the characters and give the reader a more fulfilling experience.

For instance I skip over the early life of my main character in just a couple of pages with him entering a monastery with little background as to why. Plenty of oportunity there. It would also give the oportunity to build and describe the conditions and economics of his home planet.

Thanks, this has given me both a fresh insight and interestingly enough a spur to get down to the nitty gritty - (may not translate on your side of the pond -effectively the meaty bits) of the extra detail. I know realise in my eagerness to get on with the story line I've been missing a trick or two. As you say thats what editing and refinement is all about.

The bad news is I have a truckload of typewriters arriving and 100 angry monkeys demanding work and the sectret of eternal life. Still takes my mind of world peace.

 

[chopper]

only 100 monkeys?

more seriously, Teresa is right - rambling sometimes unearths some beauts if you let your characters run away with a conversation, for example.

have you been initiated into the Critiques yet? if you're not sure whether something is right/wrong/too short/too long/got too many jelly flannels, we're always happy to take a peek...

s

 

[TorrnT]

I for one, would look forward to something from "TheEndIsNigh"
(no pressure)

 

[Culhwch]

I'm not entirely sure what a jelly flannel is, but I don't think any book I've ever read has had enough of them...

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

It sounds like something you get when you don't change your toddler out of his little footie pajamas before serving him toast.

And to think I've seen so many jelly flannels in my time without knowing what to call them!

 

[Toby Frost]

This is a tricky one, but I agree that ultimately what is being sold tends to depend on what people want to buy. Whether or not you like it, much fantasy these days is to some extent Tolkeinesque*, and part of that Tolkienishness comes from the books being really big.

And people like that: they must do because the books sell. Personally I'm all for shorter books: just think of the power and number of ideas crammed into an old SF novel like The Island of Doctor Moreau. But fantasy in particular is about creating an entire world, and that takes pages to do properly. I myself find this odd, as the worlds are often rather similar, but when done well (as I'd say Tad Williams did in Memory, Sorrow and Thorn), you really can get "lost" in the created world. Cliche, but true.

As regards writing too much, I've always done that. I think writers should digress and waffle as much as they want when they write the story. It's the editing that counts.


*By which I mean set in a classic DnD-type world influenced by European medieval myth, etc.

 

[TheEndIsNigh]

Chopper : No. I'm having to turn them away in droves. This extra quest - see previous posts for the extensive list, may prove to be quite profitable. Although I have had to put the cure for poverty on hold in the hope that the secret of eternal life will turn a pretty penny or two.

It seems a lot of the monkeys are unemployed animal testing victims made redundant following the recent debacle. They seem quite amenable to a few tests on the elixier of life given projects potential rewards.

So far they haven't cottoned on to the the fact the major ingredient has its origins in certain organs of the ape family, but hey, if they spent more time studying and less time lounging about watching John Wayne films they may learn a thing or two.

As regards the critiques yes I have discovered them. However, I haven't posted any offerings as yet.

Jelly flannels ????

 

[tangaloomababe]

I have always loved big books, simply because you get involved with the characters and if its only a short book then its all over in no time.
However having said that there have been some brilliant short stories, which had they been any longer would most likely have lost their impact.
I don't think there is a right or wrong to this one.

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

Moved to Aspiring Writers

 

[Damiynn]

I noticed this thread and it caught my eye because of a few things. One was when I was shipping around "A King's Quest" to get it published I noticed several publishers and agents had word count limits, most wanted at least 80, to 100,000 words. I didn't notice many that said they wouldnt accept any that ran over that, but that they required it. Like Teresa also said, books change, mine started out as only one and by the time I got halfway through it, I realized that it was going to be way to big for only one book. The first one ended at 140,000 words or so after editing and that was cutting a lot. Janny Wurts told me once, Write from the heart and thats all that matters, the book will grow of its own accord, She was right.