Sounds in space, how do you feel about it?

[Keeper]

Alright, so there is not supposed to be any sound in space. Okay, thats fine for the natural, but, what about to writers? If you were to write some kind of space battle with lasers, missiles and other guns, would you say there was sound, or just talk about the flashing of the lasers? Yes, this question is probably more if you were to write a movie script, but overall, it is still the same question.

I have given this some thought more so lately. I grew up with Star Wars and Gundam Wing with all kinds of explosions and sounds out in space. So, it is not alien to just pretend there are some kind of noises, but maybe they would sound different than on a planet with oxygen. However, I have also begun to fall in love with the way Battlestar Galactica does it. With the whole muffled sounding explosions, it sounds pretty cool and different.

So, how would you do it in your story/ script?

 

[iansales]

Sound does not travel in a vacuum. Even in Star Wars, it's silly.

 

[Keeper]

So, you would be totally opposed to ever put that in a story of yours? If that was the case, then would you ever actually have a space battle with scenes of what is going on outside?

 

[The Ace]

Lasers are also invisible in a vacuum, but how would you tell goodies from baddies ? Fires couldn't start either.

 

[Keeper]

So, if you hit someone with an explosive device like a missile, what happens outside in space? Is it merely force that damages the ship and their is no explosion of any sort?

 

[Commonmind]

You can either write a sensational, unrealistic sci-fi novel, or one that is rooted in scientific fact (or plausible theory). The question is not how would we do it, but how would you do it, if that's the story you want to write.

 

[Keeper]

Very true, thankfully I already know how I am going to deal with any sort of space battles. I was merely curious as to what others of this board had decided.

 

[j d worthington]

One bit of warning, though: the sf community doesn't swallow outright violations of this sort of thing in their written media very well. It tends to get something severely panned. They'll accept it (grudgingly) in a film, because it's what the general audience expects (or so the producers think); but readers of sf know the difference, and tend to consider a writer who doesn't pay attention to such simply as someone who doesn't know what they're talking about, and that's poison to selling a story....

The only place I can think of where such violations might be accepted is in outright parody of the slapstick variety. Anything with more serious intent would almost certainly have to be completely rewritten to be accepted....

 

[TheEndIsNigh]

Weeeelllll just a minute.

Sounds in space. OK you fire a missile to-wards an enemy and it hits and goes bang. Technically there is a non-vacuum existing along the vapour trail that could conceivably conduct a portion of the sound back toward you. OK it would be faint (though this would depend upon the dispersal of the trail and the banginess of the explosion).

Also, if you were close enough to the explosion, such that the exploding gases envelop your craft you should experience the full excitement in full MP3 surround sound. Course this is relative, if say a planet explodes and you travel into the result there would probably be a fair bit of after noise rattling around which could be heard.

Then again it depends on what your listening with. If you had a radio system that listened to the radio interference of your neuk and converted this into a representation of the sound, then it could be said that you heard the explosion. In fact this may be a useful tool as it might indicate a success or fail if the target was out of sight (hit or miss) and the bang was say, a space mine.

Ace: Lasers are only invisible if there are no suitable particles to act as tracers. There may be some justification for the pulses of light in star wars like battles if there is space dust to play the part of a dispersant.

 

[j d worthington]

Weeeelllll just a minute.

Sounds in space. Ok you fire a missile towards an enemy and it hits and goes bang. Technically there is a non-vacuum existing along the vapour trail that could conceivbly conduct a portion of the sound back towards you. Ok it would be faint (though this would depend upon the dispersal of the trail and the banginess of the explosion).

"Could conceivably" in a theoretical sense. The likelihood is about as close to zero as you can get, though, and it would get your story laughed off the page.

Also, if you were close enough to the explosion, such that the exploding gases envelop your craft you shoud experience the full exitement in full mp3 surround sound. Course this is relative, if say a planet explodes and you travel into the result there would probaly be a fair bit of after noise rattling around which could be heard.

The problem is, you wouldn't hear the sound in space -- the shockwave would only be translated into sound once it encounters enough matter (your own craft, in this case); so you'd be hearing it via conduction. If you were outside the craft, you'd not hear anything until whatever debris/energy is produced by the explosion encounters you -- at which point you're likely to be slightly dead, and not hearing anything.

But to an objective observer not encountering the force/debris -- in space itself, there is no sound, as there is no medium of enough density to transmit sound waves.

So, for all practical purposes (certainly, for a space battle, for instance), using sound in the vacuum of space is a sure-fire way to pretty much tick off any potential readers, as they're likely to feel you a) don't know what you're talking about; or b) think they're stupid enough to buy into such a violation of physics.

To put it bluntly, this is one of the worst howlers any writer of science fiction can pull, and it has received nothing but contempt from readers since at least the 1930s....

EDIT: I should have said "to transmit sound waves to a human ear". Sound is transmitted, though extremely inefficiently... far too inefficiently for ears like ours to respond to it.

Here's a little something on the subject:

SPACE.com -- Sounds in Space: Silencing Misconceptions

But, as said, for all practical purposes, in writing a story, having sound in space is equivalent to having someone be able to breathe in space, sans environmenatl suit. In other words: "It'll never fly, Wilbur...."

 

[The Ace]

And exactly how much space dust is there Tein ? Why d'you think they call it vacuum. They've been using poetic license for years on that one, though.

 

[TheEndIsNigh]

Basically I agree, though be fair, if your outside the craft then your biggest worry is your exploding ear drums (and the rest) so I assumed you wouldn't be naked. Also however sound is experienced it's conductive so through the spaceship wall is as valid a hearing experience as any other medium.

Now if you were battling in a nebula region there may well be enough gas about to transmit sound, don't know, never been there though I would say there's a chance. Enough of a chance that a line highlighting how odd it was that the sounds were heard, due the location, may not be laughed of the page at least.

Ace: Well that would depend on how much destruction and debris there was. Also see above, not all space is vacuum and completely devoid of particles. Plus if your a dark matter believer. then who knows what effects a laser would cause, let alone a dark matter proton particle wave scruncher.

 

[Pyan]

It's the difference between 2001, a Space Odyssey, which was made to be as realistic as possible in its space sequences, and Star Wars, which was pure entertainment and is full of bang, wooshes and sizzles...
Apart from the music, and the sound from the slab, there is no sound whatsoever in any of the space sequences in 2001.

 

[Lobolover]

I remember that scientists DO measure SOMETHING like vaves-and isnt there a generic inter-stellar sound they normaly measured,but got such high volume once it started to record itself in leters instead of numbers?

 

[Jimmy Magnusson]

Sound does not travel in a vacuum. Even in Star Wars, it's silly.

Oh, I agree. But it's also exciting and enjoyable. It works in movies, but actually describing sounds in a book would be a bit extreme I think. If you make your space battle exciting enough and don't mention the silentness of space people will probably imagine them anyway.

 

[Keeper]

Well, I seriously doubt I would comment on the sound of a laser pretty much ever, especially in space. But when it is in a movie, it just seems to be kind of neat to hear it to a degree.

 

[Mharvey]

You can either write a sensational, unrealistic sci-fi novel, or one that is rooted in scientific fact (or plausible theory). The question is not how would we do it, but how would you do it, if that's the story you want to write.

This.

Let me just add too, one of the best pieces of advice I ever got regarding Science Fiction was from a buddy of mine in California:

When in doubt, just make up a few big words, lots of vowels, add 'itic' or 'ium' at the end, and blame anything you want on it.

Example:

"I thought sound didn't travel in space..."
"... That's before you factored in the 4th Quantanomitic Principle, which states that sounds may indeed travel in space, so long as they are close to a massive endothermic discharge, like one created by a Plasmoforium Discharge."

 

[Ursa major]

That isn't sound advice, you know.

 

[chrispenycate]

Sound can't travel in a vacuum; but in system space isn't a vacuum. Oh, it's a better vacuum than we can make in the lab, but solar wind (and probably left over comet tails and rocket exhaust) make a tenuous 'atmosphere' round the primary, and Jupiter's magnetic field builds anther one out there.
So sound can travel, albeit with enormous attenuation.
So, what is putting out the energy of several hundred hydrogen bombs per second, and whose acoustic energy is actually recordable? Not your fiddling little nuclear missiles or couple of terrawatts of space drive; and definitely not radiant energy weapons?

The sun itself, of course, and I have actually heard a recording of our star, taken from a spacecraft on its way to Venus, with a microphone open to space.

 

[mosaix]

I think we have discussed sounds in space on Chrons before. And explosion involves an expanding cloud of gas. I think, if you were close enough you'd hear it - of course it might kill you.