Jack Williamson - Thoughts?

As well as Darker Than You Think I've got a book called The Stonehenge Gate, no idea if it's any good...:confused:
 
The Humanoids sound like a very interesting book. If Darker Than You Think isnt really off i will get that book.
 
I finished reading Darker Than You Thin a few weeks ago.

A gripping,humane story that arent dated at all. Its about a very intresting and different take on lycanthropy. The best story about Lycanthropy i have read or seen.

A true masterwork.
 
Jojo999 said:
As previously mentioned, I had read the Humanoids [several times] in the past and recall enjoying it. It was an amazing story for having been written in the 1940's.

Well. I just finished the Humanoid Touch sequel which I didn't enjoy as much. Perhaps I've "grown" over the years but I found the writing in the sequel to be rather simplistic. I also did not enjoy the ending, which did not resolve the issue of the Humanoids for mankind as a whole. I don't understand what message he wanted to impart with this ending.
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No, I don't think it's that; I didn't care much for The Humanoid Touch myself. Some good things in there, but as a whole I'd agree with you that the writing was much more simplistic, the novel didn't seem at all well thought-out, and overall it was simply very unsatisfying. But I re-read The Humanoids at the same time I read this one, and the original still held up quite well....
 
Good to hear that The Humannoids still hold quite well. I added it to my SF book hual for my next trip to the bookstore.

But i wasnt really worried because i was surprised a little how timeless Darker Than You Think was and its from 1948.
 
I have enjoyed reading JW for almost 30years. He wrote quality stories up into his eighties. I believe his short works were his best. Most recently, Dream of Earth and Mists in Time.
I would add to the recommendations and suggest the Starchild triology- Reefs of Space, Starchild and Rogue Star.
Someday I'll post my copy of Astounding, that I got him to sign for me, on his great work With Folded Hands.
 
Ok Here you go
 

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Im reading The Humanoids at the moment and im glad that its a first rate Golden Age SF book. The themes,setting,strong characters make it very interesting to me. Williamson writing style is not what you expect of a 40s SFF writer.

I was a bit worried that it might be a slight disappointment after his great Darker Than You Think.
 
I finished The Humanoids it was powerful,intelligent,emotionally very strong. For a book written in 1940s, it is really amazing. You felt a lot for the characters, a touching story, a humane story despite all the science in the book. Clay Forrester impressed me.

A chilling story of Machine vs Humans. Really depressing future but thought provoking story. Exactly why i read SF books,stories like this despite they might be written in the 40s.

After two great books of Williamson that i rate highly in my fav list in SFF, he jumped in the league of authors i read many books of . I will read much more of him think which way to collect him.

Anyone who remembers his thoughts on The Humanoids , on Williamson ?
 
A bit late to answer your question Conn, but I've just finished "The Humanoids" myself and thought it was very good.

It was an interesting exploration of that age old question, how do you reconcile the seemingly contradictory ends of liberty and safety? We can have both, perhaps, if we ensure that we think in the "right" way.

It is interesting also to compare and contrast this with Asimov's vision of robots guiding our future for the good of humanity (think of Giskard and Daneel). Certainly Asimov's robots preferred a more hands off approach, presumably thinking that micro-managing human lives so carefully was not desirable or practical.

But what can we conclude from the ending of "Humanoids"? Was it just the negative side of of the human psyche that had to be suppressed in order to accept the prime directive or was there an something important that was lost?
 
Fried Egg said:
A bit late to answer your question Conn, but I've just finished "The Humanoids" myself and thought it was very good.

It was an interesting exploration of that age old question, how do you reconcile the seemingly contradictory ends of liberty and safety? We can have both, perhaps, if we ensure that we think in the "right" way.

It is interesting also to compare and contrast this with Asimov's vision of robots guiding our future for the good of humanity (think of Giskard and Daneel). Certainly Asimov's robots preferred a more hands off approach, presumably thinking that micro-managing human lives so carefully was not desirable or practical.

But what can we conclude from the ending of "Humanoids"? Was it just the negative side of of the human psyche that had to be suppressed in order to accept the prime directive or was there an something important that was lost?
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Its hard to remember clearly now but i know i liked the hands on approach by the robots, the beware what you wish for. Micro-managing human lives etc

Can you refresh my mind about the ending? I have vague memories of it 3 years and 200 books later.

I should have read more of this author but he was so prolific that i didnt know where to go after this book.
 
Connavar said:
Can you refresh my mind about the ending? I have vague memories of it 3 years and 200 books later.
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Well, I'm not surprised you can't remember it too well, it's been a while. I shall enclose it in spoiler tags though for the benefit of those yet to read it:

The Humanoids build a grid that can take control of everybody and generally train/brainwash minds into accepting the "benevolent" care of the humanoids and so that they only think "right" thoughts and only want to do what is "good" for humanity. All negative emotions are ironed out of existence.

After Forester is final captured and undergoes his own treatment on the grid, he finally awakes after his relatively long period of training and is now seemingly fully accepting of the robots and the prime directive. All his negative emotions have been washed away. We only see the odd twinge of his old self that is quickly suppressed by his re-programming.

It strikes me that the better arguments all the way through were made in favour of the humanoids and the need to sacrifice freedom until one has become responsible enough to wield it although there is still something instinctive in most of us that would resent such an imposition, would not think it was a price worth paying.
 
Fried Egg said:
Well, I'm not surprised you can't remember it too well, it's been a while. I shall enclose it in spoiler tags though for the benefit of those yet to read it:

The Humanoids build a grid that can take control of everybody and generally train/brainwash minds into accepting the "benevolent" care of the humanoids and so that they only think "right" thoughts and only want to do what is "good" for humanity. All negative emotions are ironed out of existence.

After Forester is final captured and undergoes his own treatment on the grid, he finally awakes after his relatively long period of training and is now seemingly fully accepting of the robots and the prime directive. All his negative emotions have been washed away. We only see the odd twinge of his old self that is quickly suppressed by his re-programming.

It strikes me that the better arguments all the way through were made in favour of the humanoids and the need to sacrifice freedom until one has become responsible enough to wield it although there is still something instinctive in most of us that would resent such an imposition, would not think it was a price worth paying.
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Ah i remember now and i thought it was spooky,well done ending. I resented it when i thought about it as not worth the price that was paid. Something more important than safety was lost.

Another reason to read other Robot stories and how they deal with humans.
 
It's interesting because it almost seems to be an irrational spark that we have in us, a desire for freedom. Despite the near overwhelming arguments against it, not to mention the towering philosophical arguments against the very notion of free will.

Somehow the idea of liberty is very important to us. We don't care if we're wrong, as long as we get to choose.
 
Fried Egg said:
It's interesting because it almost seems to be an irrational spark that we have in us, a desire for freedom. Despite the near overwhelming arguments against it, not to mention the towering philosophical arguments against the very notion of free will.

Somehow the idea of liberty is very important to us. We don't care if we're wrong, as long as we get to choose.
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Without the idea of liberty, freedom enough to choice your life,your own decisions there isnt much to being human really. We are rightly selfish animals. There is not many philosophical arguments that can sway the notion of free will. No point to peace,utopia,perfect human life if we are slaves without free will to robots or other saviors. Why the end of the novel was emotionally starker fear than any horror story if you put yourself in that position.
 
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