3 heads of a dragon and heirs...?

[viZion]

Jon has matured and changed a lot in the story to date. Jon the boy might not have slept with a wildling, but Jon the black brother did so under orders. Jon the boy would not seperate Craster from his son, yet Jon the commander seperated Gilly from her babe. Jon the boy tried to ride off to join Robb, yet Jon the lord refused Stannis' offers. In my opinion, what Jon will or will not do for political and strategic reasons remains to be seen.

None of this is even remotely near the same ballpark as sleeping with a person you grew up believing is your sister. However, for arguments sake, let's say Jon decides it's a good idea. There's still no way Arya or Sansa would agree to it.

Man, I wish we had a new book to argue about rather than really pointless stuff like Jon sleeping with his sisters .

 

[Overread]

sometimes I really do wonder at the minds of people that read ASOIAF
Honestly as much as Jon has changed there are limits as to how much changed he is - sleeping with Arya or Sansa I think is out of the question really even if the local politics want it to happen

 

[the smiling weirwood]

I doubt that would happen just because that would be too many northerners in bed together with the monarch, literally and politically.

The Reach, the West, and the Vale would definitely have their candidates pushing to the fore. Even if Jon were to be in some position of leadership other than the Wall, which I think is ridiculous to be honest, his relation to the Starks is enough to satisfy the northern lords and any politicking marriages would naturally turn to the other kingdoms.

That being said, it is my opinion that Jon will remain the Lord Commander of the Night's Watch until the end of his days. He may, and surely will, achieve heights of heroism and fame for his conduct and leadership thereon, but I doubt that Martin would write him into anything else. It would just be too clichéd and predictable. This is Martin, not a Disney movie.

 

[Culhwch]

That being said, it is my opinion that Jon will remain the Lord Commander of the Night's Watch until the end of his days. He may, and surely will, achieve heights of heroism and fame for his conduct and leadership thereon, but I doubt that Martin would write him into anything else. It would just be too clichéd and predictable. This is Martin, not a Disney movie.

Agreed.

 

[K@li]

about jon being lord commander till the end of his life - somehow i think that at the end the wall wont exist anymore at the end of the book. there is obviously going to be some big war against the Others and I believe that when they are destroyed there shall be no more need for the Wall. probably somehow everything behind the wall shall be integrated into seven kingdoms (perhaps they might be called eight kingdoms after that? )

 

[Overread]

last time they only drove the others back and the kingdom was in far better shape - as too was the understanding of their enemy and weaknesses.
Granted the Others might also be weaker now, but I think the wall will still be needed.

 

[Bazza]

I agree with Kali however I think the Others are going to breach the wall. I don't think Dany will get there in time. GRRM emphasizes multiple times how the wall is like the edge of the world. It makes Westeros too cozy and safe from the Others, GRRM doesn't like ANYONE cozy and safe! With the wall gone, maybe Jon won't have to stay Lord Commander?

 

[Overread]

oh I think very much that the Wall will be breached - but that it won't be needed again is another matter entirly - it depends how the others attack and how far they are driven back

 

[Charming Serpent]

Maybe Melisandre will unkowningly break the wall?? Or Stannis?? Aemon said that Stannis was the false PTWP and that would lead everyone into only greater darkness. Then said something about how ice preserves, Jon must be told, when speaking about Dragons ... maybe they awaken a stone dragon from something IN the wall??

Just throwing out random ideas.

 

[viZion]

I think the Horn of Winter is going to bring down the Wall. I know I've said this before, but my basic outline of a theory is that the Horn will be blown and the Wall will be destroyed. The Others will eventually be defeated and since there's no more Wall the Night's Watch will be disbanded. That will free up Jon to become Lord of Winterfell as Robb's heir. Robb will also have legitimized Jon on the same document that names him his heir. Whoever win King's Landing will be sympathetic and accept the document as legal.

So, yeah, I don't believe that Jon will end up with Dany as King or Consort or whatever. Jon is a winter kind of guy and it just seems right for him to stay in the North rather than going to court in King's Landing.

 

[Charming Serpent]

It doesnt matter what Robb decreed in his letter. The only way that would have been held up is if he won, which he did not. That letter is meaningless. The Iron Throne never issued it and any claim by a rebel would never hold up in any court unless the rebel won.

He might not end up in the Nights Watch, but I do not think it will be as Lord of Winterfell.

 

[viZion]

It doesnt matter what Robb decreed in his letter. The only way that would have been held up is if he won, which he did not. That letter is meaningless. The Iron Throne never issued it and any claim by a rebel would never hold up in any court unless the rebel won.

He might not end up in the Nights Watch, but I do not think it will be as Lord of Winterfell.

Which is why I said that whoever wins the Iron Throne will be sympathetic and uphold the letter that Robb wrote. There are plenty of potential claimants that could make that happen for Jon. Dany could do it.

 

[Charming Serpent]

Sympathetic?? Of what? That Robb not only rebelled but then declared himself King?? He didn't just fight the Lannisters for vengeannce, he crowned himself in the process. The Starks have no allies but the Tullys and they are done with. Rickon still remains alive as well as Bran and the girls besides.

Dany (or whomever wins the Iron Throne) has no reason to be sympathetic to the Starks for any reason. Plus, what did Robb Stark ever mean to any of the people who would win the Throne?? They don't know him or have any reason to do anything that he would have wanted. And to legitimize someone you would have to have a reason. No one really needs a Stark to have the North, just someone capable and loyal to the crown.

 

[viZion]

You're kinda twisting my words or missing my point or I'm not being clear enough. Probably the latter. Not sympathetic towards Robb but sympathetic towards Jon. It's not unthinkable to speculate that Jon and Dany will be allies at some point. Most theories center around Jon being a head of the dragon with his Targaryen blood (R+L=J, right?). These theories also go on to assume that Jon ends up ruling with Dany in King's Landing. I'm changing it to Dany letting Jon go to rule Winterfell instead in accordance with Robb's wishes as well as Jon's own desires and personality.

Maybe Dany doesn't like Robb because he tried to be King and she certainly doesn't owe Robb anything but it's not outlandish to think she would do that *for Jon*.

 

[Culhwch]

My bet's on Martin doing something none of us thought of or expect. Will Jon even survive aDwD? Will Dany? And beyond that, there's another couple books to live through...

 

[Wiggum]

Being sympathetic to the Stark family behooves anyone that takes the throne.

I live in Wisconsin, my parents live in California.

Our housing prices here are all of 30-40% of what they are in California, seriously.

You know why?

Weather.

If you have a strong family, that has historically been willing to protect the north against Wildings or whatever may cross that boundry, if you're a smart person, you value that.

 

[Boaz]

But all Dany knows of House Stark is 1) that Eddard rebelled and led Robert's vanguard during her brother's death and her father's murder. Eddard Stark also was hated by her former confidant, Ser Jorah... she very nearly promised him Eddard's head... 2) that Eddard's son, Robb, was a double outlaw... not only was he the son of a traitor, but he turned outlaw against the Iron Throne (and not for the sake of bringing back House Targaryen!)... 3) and that Lyanna Stark bewitched Rhaegar, thus leading to the downfall of the Targaryens, i.e. the Starks (not the Baratheons and Lannisters) are to blame for every single thing that's happened to House Targaryen in the last sixteen years.

Now there is also the fact that Dany has never even heard of Jon... well, she might have heard the words "Eddard's *******" from Jorah. How can she be sympathetic towards him at this point? Now after Tyrion and Marwyn fill her in on the political situation and start making guesses at prophecy and only after Dany finds out that Jon is her nephew when Barristan finally spills the beans regarding the true nature of Rhaegar's and Lyanna'a relationship, then and only then can Dany turn sympathetic towards Jon.

Yes, the Iron Throne needs a strong and friendly hand in the North, but that does not mean House Stark. The Lannisters are attempting to do this with House Bolton. Stannis may attempt to do this with Houses Umber or Manderly. Asha may ally herself with the women of Bear Island. Euron does not care, he'll attempt to rule by terror.

 

[viZion]

Now after Tyrion and Marwyn fill her in on the political situation and start making guesses at prophecy and only after Dany finds out that Jon is her nephew when Barristan finally spills the beans regarding the true nature of Rhaegar's and Lyanna'a relationship, then and only then can Dany turn sympathetic towards Jon.

Yes, this is what I'm saying will happen. Obviously, it would have to happen in order for Jon to be a head of the dragon (which is a common theory, as you know..maybe it won't turn out to be correct but it's certainly common). Anyway, my entire point was that it's not such a far-fetched thing for Jon to become legitimized and become Lord of Winterfell. I guess that means I'm also saying that the Starks are going to keep Winterfell.

 

[Charming Serpent]

I see ur point now, Viz. Hmm , maybe that could happen. Especially if the Wall falls, but we will have to wait and see the banter between jon and Dany I guess.

 

[K@li]

right, it just occured to me that the iron throne is made for one ass at the time only so, even if there would be 3 heads of the dragon, only one would really rule,and if the ass on the throne would end up to be dany's i just can't see that she would sit on the throne and have two kings (or a king and a co-queen) sitting on some chairs beside her. so it seems more likely that if jon happens to be the second head he would be an ally during the war and after that given the lordship of winterfell,since dany as someone pointed doesn't have any particular reason to like other starks (bran and rickon), only jon (if r+l theory is true). except in case jon asks her to give winterfell to his brothers, but then 1) where should jon end up? and 2) which one, bran or rickon? i see rickon more as lord of winterfell and bran something, well,whatever he turns into
but i think that just because i'd like to see my fav characters happy and restored to whatever positions they have rights to....
(and i'm writing this just to make more posts )