Starks as Wargs [possible spoilers]

[Charinger]

So, I read all the books before but am reading them again to get ready for "A Dance With Dragons" (whenever it's gonna come out). Alright, so I'm almost finished with "A storm of Swords" and I am wondering about the whole warg ability with the starks. I think Robb lives on through Greywind, right? Plus I hope Arya's wolf comes back at one point so all brothers and sisters unite.

 

[Urien]

Re: Starks as Wargs

I thought you'd written "Starks as WAGs."

Could be interesting, a different connotation to the games and the red wedding.

But Wargs? I hope the Starks get revenge, and if Wargs are part of that, then jolly good. Though I fear only my grandchildren will know the answer, probably by somebody writing for Mr Martin's estate.

 

[Culhwch]

Re: Starks as Wargs

Well Grey Wind is dead, along with Robb (in fact, both were decapitated, and their heads exchanged...), so I can't see Robb living on in Grey Wind, or any where for that matter...

And welcome to the Forums. I'm just going to bang a spoiler warning in the thread title, as well...

 

[Rider]

Didn't some passage in AFFC include a dream by someone being afraid of a man with a wolf's head coming towards them or something really similar?

 

[devilsgrin]

Arya's dire wolf Nymeria has been mentioned several times (though not by name) as a giant wolf leading a huge pack in the Riverlands. I can't envision a happy reunion between Nymeria and Arya though... Arya and Micah chased her away, throwing stones etc at her... it might even be why Nymeria became so savage.

 

[Koopa]

Perhaps, or it could just be the link between Arya and Nymeria, Nymeria taking after her boss Arya, who also went wilder and wilder. Same links hold through woth the other wolves and their respective owners.

 

[Qhorin Halfhand]

Arya's dire wolf Nymeria has been mentioned several times (though not by name) as a giant wolf leading a huge pack in the Riverlands. I can't envision a happy reunion between Nymeria and Arya though... Arya and Micah chased her away, throwing stones etc at her... it might even be why Nymeria became so savage.

Arya and Jory Cassell chased Nymeria away, not Arya and Micah. The Hound killed Micah.

I think Bran, Jon and Arya are definitely Wargs, I don't think Robb was or Sansa is, or their connection with their wolves was cut too much. Rickon, it's basically impossible to say since he's never characterised that much. He could be warging emotions with a wild wolf...or a petulant child. Hard to say, really.

 

[slik_rik]

I disagree halfand

I reckon that they all (stark kiddies) had warg abilities as they spent so much time with their wolfs. Robb did begin to develop this ability when he dreamt of a way to get round tywin (i think) in ASOS (i think ). Lady died too young for sansa to develop this ability truly and well brans the tru 'warg-er' of the bunch while the others (Jon and Arya) are slowly developing the ability. The new sample chapter shows this for jon while weve already seen this between arya and nymera.

Rickon i hav no idea bout but i reckon he was like his oldest uncle (the one the mad king killed) cos shaggy dog appeared to be tempermental and aggressive like eddards brother -i think he was a hot head but again im not sure Time for a re-read!!!

To conclude my mini essay my theory is that as bran lost the ability to use his legs he developed his mind/senses/spychic stuff a lot quicker than the rest kinda like how a blind person has better smell and hearing than a person who can see.

 

[slik_rik]

btw eddards bro and rickons uncle are the same bloke
my bad

 

[Wiggum]

Well, Jon was labeled a warg by the Wildings, right?

And if I know my Wildings, I know that they know that I know that they know their wargs.

And in his sample chapter for ADwD, he has a dream similar to the ones that Arya had about Nymeria, plus he dreamed of Bran's wolf when they were close to eachother at the tower near the wall.

I have no idea about Rickon, Sansa or Robb, but the other three seem to have the capability for it.

But why, if J=R+L, would he share the same, very unique capabilities of the offspring of Cat and Eddard?

I understand that he would still be half Stark, but he would be sired by a pair of different parents, and that ability is obviously a huge anamoly.

Hmmmm, why indeed?

 

[Charming Serpent]

I don't think becoming a Warg is hereditary. Varamyr can do it and by the Wildlings own admissions they have some of their own besides him. Oh, and that guy Jon killed, Orell, was a warg too. Matter of fact, so were the Greenseers and Children of the Forest.

I think its something u can learn.

As to the Starks, well they wer obviously meant to have those wolves so perhaps theirs is a special case.

 

[Ursa major]

At the moment, we don't really know enough about this "power" to say whether it's hereditary or not: the sample population of wargs is far too small. And do we know whether the principal "driver" in this bond is the human or the creature?

 

[Charming Serpent]

Hmmm .....

I think the human? I would only assume this because Bran can "slip" into Hodor and it was plain that Hodor sure as hell didn't know what was going on and was freaked out.

 

[Ursa major]

I didn't really explain it very well.

What I meant is that there are humans who are wargs (genetically or otherwise) and there are creatures (including humans) who can "accept" control by the warg. And by "accept", I don't mean that there is a conscious acceptance (as your example of Hodor tends to show), only a tendency to become a warg's pawn. Now it may be that many people could be wargs (i.e. they could learn to do it, as you suggested), but only if they come into contact with a receptor creature.

(I think that some sort of bonding must be involved; otherwise a really powerful warg could take over another warg's "creature". We shall have to see if this can happen.)

 

[Wiggum]

Bran is something different.

I never really said it was hereditary, just odd that a group of children would have it, and another that does, may, or may not be related to them. While being raised in the same environment.

I don't think becoming a Warg is hereditary. Varamyr can do it and by the Wildlings own admissions they have some of their own besides him. Oh, and that guy Jon killed, Orell, was a warg too. Matter of fact, so were the Greenseers and Children of the Forest.

I'm allowed to disagree, or present my opinions.

Thanks.

I was speaking to the topic of the Stark children, and their relationship to their wolves. Also the idea that three, Jon, Arya and Bran share similar experiences, while the other three do not.

At least as expressed by the books.

i hope i cn lrn som3than

 

[Bazza]

Well I think warging is somewhat hereditary. Like Ursa says, we don't know enough about this power for absolutes. However, one can query the reason the Stark children were able to develop the warging ability was due to a combination of these three main circumstances.

-
One, the prime requisite for warging: the Starks worship the old gods. The only known wargs are those who worship the old gods. Warging is a druidic ability, which requires a strong connection with nature and animals. Like any magic user, it can likely be taught, but one must first have an affinity for nature and the old gods.

Two, The Starks are of old blood, descended from the First Men who were more attuned with the old gods and consorted with the children of the forest. Thus, warging would come more natural to them. Halfhand specifically requested Jon to accompany him to the Frostfangs because he was descended from the First Men. There is power in the old blood of the First Men.

Three, the prime reason the Starkscan warg: the direwolves. These aren't normal wolves or dogs (man's best friend). These are DIRE wolves, unnatural creatures, seen only north of the Wall where the old gods still rule. The starks were able to develop a repore(sp?) with these wolves as they grew up. Being unnatural creatures, this repore would likely transcend a normal repore with a dog or cat. Bran was able to warg with Hodor only because he had expanded on his natural ability and had Jojen to help teach him.
-

I believe all the children have the warging ability based on these three circumstances. After they diverge, their powers grow and weaken depending on their experiences. Since Robb and Rickon don't have POVs its difficult to ascertain whether they warg or not. But if you note, all the wolves exhibited personalities similar to their owners. Shaggydog, was impulsive, angry and aggressive, Lady, obedient and proper. As slik_rik said, there was a passage where a northman proclaimed Robb found a way past the Golden Tooth because his "wolf showed him the way". He probably had a similar experience that Jon did on the Frostfangs. I believe however he started ignoring these impulses after his marriage and his warging powers were abandoned. Sansa only had one pov before her wolf was killed, thus ending her repore, and her warging career before it even got started.

Anyways, sorry for the long post. I need to drink less!

 

[Charming Serpent]

I agree with ur post completely.

 

[slik_rik]

bazzas got me sold

 

[Wiggum]

No apologies needed Bazza, good post.

 

[Ursa major]

Yes, Bazza, good post.

It makes we wonder if the Direwolves could have acted like a gateway drug for wargs. (Or like a bike with training wheels.) Yes, that could work.


And it makes me realise just how "fortuitous" it was that those direwolf pups were there to lead the younger Starks towards discovering their power.