Halfway through book 3 and SoIaF is losing me...

[Rolynd]

I thought it was about time I tried GRRM as I read a lot of fantasy and everyone kept recommending him. I have started song of Ice and Fire series now and am about 2/3 through storm of swords.

I think his writing is great and the story (or each of the seperate stories rather) race along.

Thing is though, I am beginning to feel that this series is a bit bleak for me. Don't get me wrong, I love a bit of realism, and I like that you don't feel any of the main protaganists are safe. Kill off a main character that I really like by all means, I can take it. But surely this has to be tempered with the evildoers being punished for their crimes? I want a bit of revenge!

I need to feel like I'm going to get a boost of elation at the end of a book I read when the good triumph. I realise this is a series and so the proper ending cannot come yet but give me some scraps at least! At the moment I just feel like I'm reading a litany of bad news, one thing after the other and it's...disheartening.

Is it going to pick up any time soon? Am I going to get any reward for putting myself through some really depressing times with these characters!? I don't think I can wait until the last chapter of the last book of the series. I need something to keep me going.

 

[soulsinging]

I struggled with this series quite a bit and didn't really enjoy it until Clash of Kings. I haven't start Storm of Swords yet. From what I hear though, the next book is a definite step down and resolves little.

 

[Rolynd]

May be shelving after this one then.

Anyone offer any optimism?

 

[TK-421]

From what I hear though, the next book is a definite step down and resolves little.

That is a matter of personal opinion and I would say not true as AFFC was as good as the other three.

ASOS is the best of the three thus far, however. Finish ASOS and if you aren't convinced then it was nice seeing ya.

But you're right Rolynd, this isn't for everyone and definetely isn't Sesame Street.

 

[Rolynd]

That is a matter of personal opinion and I would say not true as AFFC was as good as the other three.

ASOS is the best of the three thus far, however. Finish ASOS and if you aren't convinced then it was nice seeing ya.

But you're right Rolynd, this isn't for everyone and definetely isn't Sesame Street.

Thanks for you response. I'll definitely see ASOS through to the end, though reading between the lines of what you have said I guess there isn't much to cheer about in the later books. It's a shame, as I really enjoy the PoV style and his great characterization. I don't really want to stop reading them but I get very emotionally involved when I read a book and I don't want to get clinically depressed! A book that was all cheerful and light would lose me in a different way. A book that is all dour and depressing is beginning to pale because I feel that there's probably nothing to look forward to! Dany's story (although not sure of her aims) is the only thing keeping me going, as she seems to be doing well for herself

***SPOILER ALERT****






BTW I hated Joffrey and I know he is dead, but his death was a big anti-climax to me for various reasons.

 

[Wiggum]

It's a shame, as I really enjoy the PoV style and his great characterization. I don't really want to stop reading them but I get very emotionally involved when I read a book and I don't want to get clinically depressed!

Maybe it's just me, but I think Martin's got you even if you don't want to admit it.

But, like TK said, it isn't for everyone.

Thing is, for every Old Bear that passes, there is a Euron or Quentyn to read about.

 

[The Imp]

It seems to me that the death you mentioned would be exactly the thing you're asking for

As far as the series goes, it isn't C.S.Lewis and to date, Aslan has killed himself for anyone's sins. What makes the series so appealing for a lot of us is the realism, which includes the uncertainty the real life brings. Good triumphs over evil- sometimes. Other times one hero has to slay another for the greater good. Beloved pets are killed. POV characters are killed off.

It certainly isn't for everyone, but for me it's amazing. GRRM does what few authors are able to do. he tells a great story AND he's an incredible writer. I suspect that he'll ultimately give you some of what you are asking for, but getting there isn't going to be pretty.

 

[Shacklock]

Oh I cheered when few people died and theres a moment in AFFC when you can laugh your ass off at an annoying bitch. I was kinda happy when you know who died, but then she came back *Sigh*

 

[ksparrish]

I have certainly enjoyed the series but can definitely agree with Rolynd POV. I started reading this series when Martin published the first book and couldn't wait until the 2nd book came out. I jumped on it as soon as it was published and then had too wait again. It seems like each gap is becoming longer and as each book came out I didn't enjoy it as much as I did the previous book. At this point I still haven't read the latest book because I need to reread the other books to remember what has occurred and I still have not made it through the 2nd read (always got distracted by another book). I think I am going to just wait for him to finish the series and start again from Book 1 and work my way through.

 

[Boaz]

Rolynd, Welcome to the Chronicles Network!!!

I agree with the others, not everyone will enjoy all aspects of the story... and that's okay. In fact, there are parts of the story that I don't enjoy... for instance Jon. I really don't like him, but I love his POV. I don't like Bran, Catelyn, or Robb. I don't like Cersei, Tywin, of Joffrey. I don't like Sam, Theon, or Asha. But their points of view are outstanding... Martin really uses these differing perspectives to flesh out his world.

I also want some of the villains to get theirs... but Martin has pulled a fast one and turned me into a big fan of the Lannister boys. Instead of crowing for their demise, I cheer for their attempts at redemption. Tyrion is probably the most popular character in the series... (after him come Jon and Dany and the omission of these three POV's from AFFC is probably the biggest reason for criticism. Yet conversely, ADWD will be chock full of these three!!!) Tyrion used to be my favorite character... now it's Jaime. Jaime, Jaime, Jaime...

We first glimpse him as Mordred, but we find out that he used to be Lancelot. For the moment, he's Orestes trying to regain his former Lancelot-hood... he'll probably end up being Don Quixote.

One other comment, I don't know what soulsinging means by

I haven't start Storm of Swords yet. From what I hear though, the next book is a definite step down

I felt ASOS was the most dynamic, plot progressing, deeply character developing book so far. But when soulsinging says

and resolves little.

I know exactly what he means. The story is right at the mid-point... not much can be resolved at this point. ASOS ends with more untied strings than it starts with.

I don't want to pan the end of ASOS by saying it does resolve anything. Actually, the last four chapters of ASOS bring about reasons to cheer. You wrote

I need to feel like I'm going to get a boost of elation at the end of a book I read when the good triumph. I realise this is a series and so the proper ending cannot come yet but give me some scraps at least! At the moment I just feel like I'm reading a litany of bad news, one thing after the other and it's...disheartening.

Tyrion's, Jon's and Sansa's last chapters all have jaw dropping, if not good, news.

ksparrish, I discuss ASOIAF here because three of my friends refuse to read anymore until the series is finished...

 

[viZion]

I get the feeling that the "next book" soulsinging was talking about is A Feast For Crows. That's how I understood his sentence at least.

 

[Rolynd]

It seems to me that the death you mentioned would be exactly the thing you're asking for

I thought people would say that! I found it a bit underwhelming. He killed ned and lady and abused sansa, and he dies choking on some food?!? I know it was poison, but still.

I thought it was building up for a confrontation between Rob and the Lannisters, it didn't happen and the fact that Joffrey wound up dead anyway is scant consolation.

Still, I say all this, and yet I've nearly finished ASOS and have bought the fourth book, so make of that what you will.

Boaz - thanks for for the welcome! I probably sound like a kid who should stick to the Hobbit until he's older! I just feel a bit frustrated atm. BTW how can you not like Jon? He seems like the best of them now Ned's gone.

I was kinda happy when you know who died, but then she came back

Don't know who is meant with the above - so please don't elaborate further!

 

[the smiling weirwood]

I don't like Jon because he just *looks* like a hero. All of the other characters are so real I feel like I could know or meet people like them in real life, whereas Jon is...obviously a fictitious character.

 

[Boaz]

Exactly!!! He's the archetype fantasy hero. Garion, Rand, Jimmy the Hand, I've seen it a million times before. Another dark haired, angst ridden, teenage boy destined to save the world... Can you say, "Harry Potter"? If Jon was blonde, at least he'd be slightly different. If I'd never read any fantasy literature before, I'd probably love Jon... but then I'd probably not enjoy the overall story as much.

Then again, mayhaps my frustration is that my own teenage years are long gone...

Edit: I missed Rolynd's last post.

Yes, I wanted Joffrey to suffer, I mean really suffer, but his quick death reinforces the words of the High Septon at Eddard's confession... "As we sin, so do we suffer." It does not seem true in real life.

And Shack's comment while cryptic is probably even more of a shocker than the three I mentioned. I'd really like to read your comments on the last four chapters and epilogue of ASOS.

soulsinging, btw what is MS&T? Googling MS&T just gives me the Missouri University of Science and Technology...

 

[soulsinging]

Maybe it's just me, but I think Martin's got you even if you don't want to admit it.

But, like TK said, it isn't for everyone.

Thing is, for every Old Bear that passes, there is a Euron or Quentyn to read about.

I think he has a knack for that. For a book and a half I was ranting about the things that enraged and disappointed me in this series... but I sure as hell couldn't stop reading!

The unerring bleakness of the book didn't bother me much though.

That said, I think to an extent I've lost the taste for epic fantasy. I look at MS&T on my shelf and just feel overwhelmed at the prospect of a 3000 page story. LOTR was only 1000. I love Jim butcher... he wraps up each story in less than 400. Even Scott Lynch clocks in at 700 but gets a full story done in that time. Maybe if I clear everything I want to read off my shelf and feel like I have the time to devote to a huge epic story, I'll give it another go.

 

[Pyan]

I look at MS&T on my shelf and just feel overwhelmed at the prospect of a 3000 page story.

Presumably WoT, at nearly 10,000 pages and 3½ million words, doesn't appeal much then...

GRRM has really blown it with me with the delays to AFfC, and the ongoing delay to ADwD...I feel that to give ADwD a fair chance, I'd now have to read the whole thing from the beginning again - and frankly, I haven't the time or the inclination to do that...

 

[soulsinging]

Presumably WoT, at nearly 10,000 pages and 3½ million words, doesn't appeal much then...

GRRM has really blown it with me with the delays to AFfC, and the ongoing delay to ADwD...I feel that to give ADwD a fair chance, I'd now have to read the whole thing from the beginning again - and frankly, I haven't the time or the inclination to do that...

It was WoT that put me off fantasy for a very long time. I recently got back into it with Martin and others. But yeah, I'm semi-intimidated by the fact that it's so unfinished and so far from completion. I don't want that again. I was planning to halt after SoS anyway and save AFFC until ADwD came out. But maybe I should just set it aside until it's done and give Williams another shot. Or get caught up on the Dresden files and Scott Lynch.

 

[Kith]

btw what is MS&T? Googling MS&T just gives me the Missouri University of Science and Technology...

Memory, Sorrow and Thorn (Tad Williams, I think)

 

[slik_rik]

First off i believe if you reread the series you will see how awesome this series is and how much of the overarching plot you have missed. SOIF is for me an interesting read about the struggle in the game of thrones across westeros which leads to inevetiable fight with the others (overarching plot etc etc ).

Secondly, (this kinda relates to point 1 and alos clearly my opinion/view/feeling) GRRM has a far bigger vision than you believe as you read through the first few books but towards the end of AFFC you get a sense of that.

THridly point 1+2 explain why so many people think this story is awesome and why so many have been waiting for years for ADWD

Finally, on a different tangent i disagree boaz -jon wont become THE HERO although he'll be one because of where he is and what he must do. He will be the bloke who suffers as he will do wat must be done not what he wants to do. Remeber that bittersweet ending GRRM talked about well jons going to be a very big part of that but he wont be THE HERO like you say

 

[slik_rik]

simply because GRRM is WAY to masterful to deliver us a straight forward hero