Invasion (revision from Reflections)

[Michael01]

I much prefer the way you introduce background info in this version, it's mostly seamless and doesn't seem at all like info-dumping. Tick!

Sweet! Thanks, HareBrain.

I think someone else pointed this out, but you've taken out the statue.

Yep. I missed that somehow.

Not sure about how this para flows from previous. Is he thinking of anyone in particular here, or Ereflur? the point seems to come from nowhere.

If I weren’t so obsessed with the Nexus System, they’d be here with their families—where they belong.

The physical pain faded and Sombr pushed away from the statue. They continued their walk, entering the next path. The center wasn’t far now.

Despite the consequences, he wondered how anyone would not be obsessed with the universe’s point of origin. How could anyone not be haunted by the oddities of both worlds orbiting the Nexus?

Is it because I split the idea with this other paragraph that describes them continuing to walk?

Maybe it is, but this reads as though you just want her to say something so Sombr could observe the beauty of the day (twin suns etc)

You're right. I think I can find another way to do this.

Uh? Either shadows exist or they don't. and how are they dispersed, except by the motion of the suns, which surely would be too slow to notice?

First, I think I want to remove the idea that the suns are "twins," because I think I want them to be different sizes (not that it's important). Too slow to notice? Yes, it would be; but my question is, why can't Sombr think of it this way anyway? That is the point, right? That we're seeing this through his eyes, and with his interpretation ... his choice of words?

will rather than would

Doh! Thanks...

Wouldn't he gasp it out before catching his breath? would give it a bit more urgency.

Makes sense to me. Okay, thanks!

Not your fault, but I read this as "possessed only a one-armed starship", which had me in fits. (Well, I have to amuse myself, there's nothing on telly ...)

Haha! Guess what? So does my grammar checker! I think I can come up with another way to express this idea.

if we "ever" need to defend ourselves? Surely with the arrival of a strange fleet he would be thinking the second sentence right away?

I think I see what you mean, but would removing "ever" be good enough, or should I rewrite the whole paragrapgh?

The implication is that her eyes have grown wide only after Sombr's done his thinking in the previous paragraph. So maybe "had grown wide with alarm" or, better, "were wide with alarm" - or maybe just "were wide" since this is from Sombr's POV and he wouldn't know any better than us what they were wide with (though both we and he could guess)

Good point.

I think some or all of this could be in dialogue. Like this?

I like that idea, HareBrain. In fact, I'll try to keep my eyes open for other places like this that might work better in dialogue.

Is this information necessary at this stage, or at all? The fact that he challenges her about not knowing this raises the suspicion in the reader's mind that she sould know this, and that therefore you are having an unlikely conversation happen just to get this across (though you make a better attempt to cover it than some)

Sigh. This conversation was supposed to be my solution to drawing out the tension without "padding." And I thought it also addressed the issue of her not being very "queenly" in the conventional sense. Why is it unlikely, though? This conversation should be the direct result of them considering what to do about the unannounced arrival of a fleet. It follows the context, at least, doesn't it?

Unfortunately I agree with him here - the previous para's ponderings don't seem likely as the thoughts of a king with a potentailly massive crisis on his hands.

I'm not following. Don't his thoughts refer to things she should know about governing a kingdom, especially in a crisis? Or is the confusion because of the lack of titles - because Sombr isn't the ruler (Ereflur is)?

I've been thinking about this point for a couple of days (not non-stop, you'll be relieved to hear) and I'm undecided about it but I'll raise it anyway - why is he trying to summon words? When you stare at something gob-smacking, do you try to define it in language? My first reaction was that you don't, and that he wouldn't think "hmm, what are those things, they're kind of growths ..." he would just think "HFS!!!" But I am open to being convinced.

While I don't want to , I have little choice but to agree with you. I'll have to adjust that.

I might have missed something even after three readings, but why is the darkness so horrendous?

With two suns, won't they have longer days? More light? I think part of the problem is that I've removed most of the exposition, so there's no longer any description of the suns orbiting the Nexus. The worlds of Illusio and Hallucien do not orbit the suns, which I know completely defies the laws of physics - the "Nexus universe" has different rules from our "real" universe. This also means they don't really meet the defintion of "suns," but I'm not too worried about that at this point. On the other hand, I originally had three suns. I think I might need to consider the whole idea more.

Has he experienced an earthquake?

No. I'll either have to drop the use of simile here or come up with another that reflects his personal experience.

I would try to reword this so it reads less like a footnote inserted into the text body. If these are aliens, he's the first human ever to see them. I'd have thought his reaction would be a bit stronger than this, it reads too matter-of-fact to me.

Yeah, I can see that. I'll work on it.

Could the crucial info here be got over in dialogue, with him trying to reassure Ereflur, or himself, and coming to the horrible conclusion that there's nothing Terra could do?

Yes, I think it can, and I'm going to make the attempt. This seems very much like the point raised for another part above. I'll need to try to be aware of anything that could be reworked into dialogue.

Detail would be nice here. If no aliens have been encountered before, would he be familiar with the effects of a translation device?

I have thought about this myself. This sentence that says "suggesting the use of" seems very close to the "telling" end of the sliding scale. While I think some telling is necessary, I'm beginning to think I should at least try to rewrite anything that looks like it could be more descriptive.

Nice touch, the incorrect spelling to suggest the translation device not being perfect

You got me there! That's actually a typo, but maybe I should think about working something like this in there? Hmm...

OK, that's all for now. As always, hope it was helpful. And yes, despite all these points, big improvement.

Very helpful, HareBrain. Thanks for everything!

 

[crystal haven]

Sorry if I didn't explain clearly. It isn't the word 'shot' that seems wrong, but the placement.

He does all this thinking first before the 'shot to their feet'.

I feel it is like falling off a cliff and thinking on the way down if you should do something to stop yourself, and then grabbing for a branch.

I feel the reaction should be instinctive, not all this thinking about it first.

I'm sorry if this doesn't make much sense.

 

[Michael01]

No, it makes perfect sense. Thanks!

 

[HareBrain]

Is it because I split the idea with this other paragraph that describes them continuing to walk?

Yes - oops, I missed that. Wow, my short-term memory must be even shorter than I thought!

I think I see what you mean, but would removing "ever" be good enough, or should I rewrite the whole paragrapgh?

Removing "ever" would work, and would then make the second sentence redundant.

Sigh. This conversation was supposed to be my solution to drawing out the tension without "padding." And I thought it also addressed the issue of her not being very "queenly" in the conventional sense. Why is it unlikely, though? This conversation should be the direct result of them considering what to do about the unannounced arrival of a fleet. It follows the context, at least, doesn't it?

I'm not following. Don't his thoughts refer to things she should know about governing a kingdom, especially in a crisis? Or is the confusion because of the lack of titles - because Sombr isn't the ruler (Ereflur is)?

I don't think it works drawing out the tension, because he doesn't seem tense! This is my problem with it. I can understand Ereflur saying "Perhaps another colony? etc" in a slightly panicky voice, but he answers her too calmly - I think you could keep the lines in if we had some hint that he was trying to keep his own panic at bay. I mean, he's the king of this place and he's suddenly been told that a fleet has arrived. A fleet!! People don't usually send fleets without warning except for purposes of war. I think his adrenaline would be buzzing, and I think you need to get this across.

With two suns, won't they have longer days? More light?

Fair point, but the way you put it made it seem that darkenss would have some immediate horrible effect, like in Pitch Black.

 

[Michael01]

Removing "ever" would work, and would then make the second sentence redundant.

Ah, yes. I see it now. But it kind of bugs me that I didn't see it in the first place...

EDIT: Because now it looks like "ever" shouldn't be there at all and the second sentence was always redundant.

I don't think it works drawing out the tension, because he doesn't seem tense!

Okay, I understand. I'm glad you mentioned it.

Fair point, but the way you put it made it seem that darkenss would have some immediate horrible effect, like in Pitch Black.

Oops! That was not my intention.

 

[dreir]

In defense of the late Robert Jordan (not that I'm a very big fan):

Now, here are several sentences from that chapter, all of them the first sentences of their respective paragraphs:

• Surpsingly, Birgitte let the maid's disapproval slide past without so much as a placating look. <Perhaps the "surprisingly" negates the point here, but nothing like this appears in the rest.
• Birgitte still left feeling puzzled and upset.
• Essande shook her head in disapproval, unaware that the brooch was an angreal. <Haha! I'm pretty sure only someone like Robert Jordan could get away with this, but still...
• Rasoria gave a start when Aviendha entered the anteroom in her high-necked velvets.
• Dyelin turned from warming her hands at the fire as they entered.

<snip>

As I said, this chapter is most definitely in Elayne Trakand's POV, and I never lost track of that when I read it, even with all these "POV violations" (or "head-hopping")!<snip>

Actually, none of the cited examples are 'head-hopping' except very possibly the second one ('Birgitte still left feeling..'). The 1st, 4th and 5th examples are all scenes that Elayne is obviously witnessing. The 3rd example, despite containing the words 'unaware' is also not a POV violation since Elayne *knows* that Essande is unaware about the brooch. It's the same thing with the guardswomen sentence, where Elayne knows that they've never seen Aviendha in non-Aiel garb. It's not just the words but what the words imply about the knowledge of the POV voice.

I'm just pitching in here with my two cents to help minimise any misconceptions any aspiring writer might get from reading the above quoted post, so please don't come back to me with a few dozen more quotes from the book! I *know* for a fact that, due to their money-making value, some established authors can get away with murder, so I won't be surprised if you *do* find genuine examples of unwarranted head-hopping .

- Dreir -

 

[Michael01]

Actually, none of the cited examples are 'head-hopping' ...

I think perhaps you may have misunderstood me. That was exactly my point. I was not convinced it was a POV violation just because the sentence began with another character's name, and I quoted these examples to support that supposition.

In fact, here are two of the sentences I wrote that was in question:

Ereflur’s eyes dropped and her face grew as pale as she had described his earlier.

For one, how could this be switching to Ereflur's POV when she can't see her own eyes or how pale her face is? So my point was that it was still firmly in Sombr's POV because he can see these things.

And the other:

Ereflur did as the Children always did when confronted with impossible odds.

Neither of these sentences are written any differently than those I'd quoted from CoT.

I apologize for the misunderstanding, because I definitely did not mean to imply those sentences were head-hopping. Quite the opposite, in fact.

 

[dreir]

Ahhh.. no wonder you had quotes around 'head-hopping'..

*Shoots self, stuffs self in a barrel and dumps barrel into the sea in shame, for not reading earlier posts properly*

I guess your red highlight at 'unaware' must have triggered some defensive mechanism in me..

- Dreir -

 

[Michael01]

Ah. I did highlight that because I thought it might negate the point, but I know I was wrong. Of course Elayne knows that Essande is "unaware that the brooch was an angreal." I'm a bit embarrased about that. Here I was trying to show they weren't POV violations, and then I say, "Well maybe this one is but still..." So I can completely understand your confusion, and I'm actually glad you brought it up.