Flowers for Algernon

[steve12553]

Oh wow, 'Flowers for Algernon', what a great book, I read it a few years ago. I honestly did not see it as a Sci Fi book, even with the technology they use to help Charlie and Algernon. To me, 'Flowers for Algernon' was more about human nature, how a man can be changed, for good or better, I don't know.

The setting makes it Science Fiction, it can still be a touching story about human nature. Science Fiction has traditionally been a way to disguise ideas inside the technology while touching or convincing people of more down to earth things.

 

[GOLLUM]

GRRR...better get hold of this book soon, otherwise I'll miss out on these interesting conversations...*SIGH*....

 

[trappedinBEIJING]

Hey,

I was hoping someone could help me who have recently read Flowers for Algernon. I'm presently in Asia and do not have access to the book and I'm looking for some information trapped inside of it. (Now I read this years ago, so hopefully I'm drawing at the right straw.)

There was a sentence in the book that, I think, was a test. The sentence had several meaning depending upon where a COMMA was placed. If someone could tell me what that sentence was, I would greatly appreciate it.

Thanks,
Rob.

 

[j d worthington]

It has been quite some time since I read the book, and my copy is currently in storage (along with nearly all my other sf books), but I don't recall a test like that in either the short story or the novel. There was the Rorschach (or, as Charlie calls it in his early entries, raw shok), and the Thematic Apperception Test, but nothing that I can recall fits your description. Perhaps my memory is faulty here. I do recall, however, a passage which seems fairly close from James Blish's A Case of Conscience, where Ramon Ruiz-Sanchez is reflecting on Finnegan's Wake, by James Joyce, and how perhaps the greatest writer of his time (in Ramon's view) wrote a novel that centered around that very thing, and how, to Ramon, this was a perfect example of how the Enemy (Satan) can throw up a smokescreen that beclouds even the noblest minds, making of a great work of art nothing but a sorry little joke. It's a passage that takes place just as they're about to leave Lithia, and just before he's presented with the urn carrying the Lithian embryo, so the levels of irony are multiplied.

Does anyone else recall such a test in Flowers for Algernon? Am I completely off-the-beam on this one?

 

[trappedinBEIJING]

I apologize,

I was forced to read this 10 years ago by a teacher. I never enjoyed books I was obligated to read as a kid. This "test" that I'm refering to, however, was just about the only thing I remember. It was certainly from the Short Story.

To clarify; it was not a test directed at the reader. And using "test" was a poor choice of a word.

What I'm referring to was a sentence that was given to the main character or a sentence devised by the main character, that had a certain meaning. I believe the scene involving this sentence was of a quizzical nature. When there was a comma added, the meaning of this sentence changed. It was play on words, a brain teaser. Something of that sort. It was interesting though, and if it was in the short story someone would remember, but now... I find myself 6500 miles from my book unable to verify my claims.

So this is what I know for certain:

1. This sentence was in Flowers For Algernon, the Short Story.
2. With the placement of commas, the meaning of the sentence changed.
3. It was given to the main character as a quiz, or devised by the main character. (I don't really know).

I definitely appreciate the help. Thanks,

Rob.

 

[trappedinBEIJING]

I found this quote on a website, but so far this is as close as I can get:

"Charlie learns about commas from Miss Kinnian who says people could lose a lot of money if a comma is in the wrong place. Charlie is completely confused by this, but enthusiastically uses them throughout his sentences!"

Thanks again,

Rob.

 

[j d worthington]

True, there is a passage, in Charlie's daily journal writing, where he first learns about punctuation, and begins to use it completely erroneously, even putting numbers of punctuation marks in the middle of words, etc., claiming punctuation is fun", for instance, with several commas, exclamation points, @'s thrown in, etc. It wasn't a test, but there was a comment made about how people could lose a lot of money without the proper punctuation, so he threw in everything including the kitchen sink. However, by his next entry he is already being corrected on this (and beginning to learn more quickly), so this may be where the memory comes from.

 

[Nesacat]

Just read the short story and am now sitting here crying all over my keyboard at work. It's a compact well written story and a very, very moving piece of fiction. I love it and will now try to find the book.

If anyone want a look at the story here's a link:
http://www.fictionbook.ru/author/keyes_daniel/flowers_for_algernon/keyes_flowers_for_algernon.html

 

[j d worthington]

Nesa! You've never read the story before? Then what a treat for you (even if a heartbreaking one)! For my part, the story never loses its punch; indeed, it seems to gain it on more levels each time I visit it. Glad you enjoyed(?) it.

(P.S. Have you ever seen Requiem for a Heavyweight? The screenplay was by Rod Serling, and it calls upon many of the same themes, and is also very moving in a complex fashion.)

 

[GOLLUM]

As GOLLUM continues to dream of reading Flowers before 2006 fully evaporates...*SIGH*...

 

[Nesacat]

I did j.d. It is very heart-breaking but it's very, very well written and I'm glad to have read it. Thank you everyone for posting this thread. Have printed it out and will take it home and read it again slowly tonight.

Very much feel like Gollum right now ... so many books, tales and the year is half way through. Could do with a time-yurner right now.

 

[world in progress]

They made a movie too.

Flowers for Algernon was adapted into two movies, including the one linked to above and the 1968 movie Charly, the only SF movie to ever win an acting Oscar (AFAIK).

It was also adapted as a musical (the London production starred Michael Crawford IIRC) and a stage play (not sure of any productions, but I have the script in bookform).

 

[j d worthington]

Thanks for that information. I knew about Charly, as I saw it a very long time ago -- Cliff Robertson most assuredly earned that award; his performance as Charlie Gordon is ... in a word, wonderful. I'd like to see the other as well, just to see how they did with it, especially as there were certain aspects of the novel that couldn't be done in a Hollywood film at the period Charly was made....

 

[steve12553]

Had to look up this thread even though I had already posted in it. (May have something to do with the amount of time since my operation.) I was aware of the story and I couldn't remember what I had read or seen. I now believe that I saw Charlie years ago and never read anything. I found the short story in an Isaac Asimov Short Story collection (he being one of the editors) and read it. Science Fiction in concept although not gadget ridden. Very touching well written story. I may look for the novel at some point but the short story was so well written I would have a hard time believing that an expansion wouldn't lose something.

 

[Sibeling]

Really touching story. It is one of my favourite sci-fi stories ever, even though it really is more about people than science.

 

[j d worthington]

Really touching story. It is one of my favourite sci-fi stories ever, even though it really is more about people than science.

As most writers in the field will tell you: no matter how much it's concerned with the hardware and scientific information, the best sf always is...

 

[Ian Whates]

I couldn't agree more J.D. -- the hardware and other paraphernalia that proliferate in so much SF can be entertaining and impressive, but it's characters that make a story, and 40-odd years after it was written, Flowers for Algernon remains an astonishly good example. Brilliant SF -- whether you read the original short or the expanded (though still not particularly long) 'novel'. A classic in every sense.

 

[sandyewillson]

Thanks for that information. I knew about Charly, as I saw it a very long time ago -- Cliff Robertson most assuredly earned that award; his performance as Charlie Gordon is ... in a word, wonderful. I'd like to see the other as well, just to see how they did with it, especially as there were certain aspects of the novel that couldn't be done in a Hollywood film at the period Charly was made....

Yeah, its really a great information. Thanks for sharing with us,,,,

 

[Rodders]

I think i'll have to check that out and see if it's available on Play or Amazon.

 

[heninsmithy]

Yeah its a small story and I've only read the short story...