Confidence and the fragility of a new project

[mushroomyakuza]

As writers, I'm sure all of us can relate to this. You're working on a project. It's a new project. You like your project. You think this project could be *it*. But you don't want to tell anyone else about your project, for fear of them throwing out an offhand remark, somehow pointing out a massive hole in your previously infallible logic. You write it quietly, alone, and speak to no one about it, for fear of someone crushing it before it has time to find its feet.

Yet, what is writing without criticism? Constructive criticism, certainly, but each and everyone of us, when showing our writing to the world, grabs our balls and jumps. It's scary.

How do you overcome this fear?

I raise this issue because I myself have just started writing a new project, my first for just over two years. I've been working on the project for considerably longer; building worlds, characters, culture, architecture and the like, but I only wrote my first chapter, my prologue (after my first draft and some changes to the plot) today.

I want to show it to people. I want to feel encouraged, to have belief in the project myself, but part of me feels that I shouldn't show it to people until it's more developed, and I've written more than just one chapter. I shouldn't be dismayed by this, but I know full well that if I receive some criticism that seems a little too merciless at this point, I may just pack up my pens and abandon the project altogether. It's ridiculous really, you'd think after 3 years of a university course involving workshopping writing and getting feedback that you'd be used to criticism by now. But I'm not.

So I suppose what I'm asking is: when writing a new project, how long do you wait before showing it to people? How to prepare yourself to take criticism on board and not take it personally?


At the moment my feeling is that I should wait a little while, write at least one more chapter, then come back with the prologue when I have other material already in the bank. Anyone else suffer from this kind of desperate need for project secrecy until you feel you have a substantial enough portion of it written down?

thanks

 

[Dimentio]

I'll take solace in that the only person who has called my book "the worst pile of horse **** in history" is a mentally deranged narcissistic imbecile who certainly will be happy when he sees that he is featured in my book as the wimpiest villain in all of history... mu ha ha ha... ^^

 

[Blackrook]

I've learned on this forum that my writing is not nearly as good as my family tells me it is. They love me and so its difficult to get anything but praise.

The purpose of this forum is to get the hard honest truth about your writing. Yes, I've been discouraged by the responses to my writing. I've been so discouraged that its been months since I last posted anything.

But it's difficult to find anywhere else to get this kind of feedback. If you don't want it, don't post your work.

 

[Interference]

Yet, what is writing without criticism?

Creative and fulfilling?

Write until you're happy. Chapters you do now may be excised or thoroughly re-written when you see how it all turns out in the end. IMHO showing extracts now can be a valid and useful way of detecting flaws in plot, character and story and every opportunity to become better should be grabbed and exploited. Far better to become confident with your skills by whatever means possible than to sit in timid ignorance for years, owing the inertia of insecurity.

Actually, there's something of a life-message in that

 

[chopper]

Creative and fulfilling?

Write until you're happy. Chapters you do now may be excised or thoroughly re-written when you see how it all turns out in the end. IMHO showing extracts now can be a valid and useful way of detecting flaws in plot, character and story and every opportunity to become better should be grabbed and exploited. Far better to become confident with your skills by whatever means possible than to sit in timid ignorance for years, owing the inertia of insecurity.

Actually, there's something of a life-message in that

damn skippy. my writing only improved because i came here. nobody else would have read it at all otherwise. once you realise that you are writing for a real, live audience, it makes all the difference.

 

[Peter Graham]

Yet, what is writing without criticism? Constructive criticism, certainly, but each and everyone of us, when showing our writing to the world, grabs our balls and jumps. It's scary.

How do you overcome this fear?

I think that any aspiring writer needs to put this fear in its place. because in the grand scheme of things, it's just not that scary.

Ask yourself why are you writing? If you are writing as a hobby, just enjoy what you do. I brew beer as a hobby. I have no intention of becoming a professional brewer and no intention of entering my beer into competitions, so I couldn't care less what anyone else thinks about it.

But if you are writing in the hope of being published or even earning a living from it, then you need to develop a tough hide for criticism and rejection. Like any other job, it is difficult. If you mess up at work, the boss will tick you off. If you fail to meet the expectations of a client or customer, they will let you know. The only way to improve in any job is to do it for real, learn from your mistakes and build on those things you are doing right. Writer's can't use shyness or a fear of criticism as a reason not to throw themselves into their work any more than anyone else could use the same excuse in any other job.

but I know full well that if I receive some criticism that seems a little too merciless at this point, I may just pack up my pens and abandon the project altogether.

You will really have to deal with this if you are serious about writing professionally. For what it is worth, the criticism you will get in here will be very mild compared to what you can expect from other quarters. Why not have a look at a few threads in Critiques and ask yourself if you feel that you could take any of the criticism offered to others if it were offered to you? And also ask yourself what motivates the critiquers? Why so many people are happy to give up their own time to read and comment on the work of others? Take some comfort and get stuck in - the water's lovely!

Regards,

Peter

 

[J-WO]

I certainly give it some time before I show anyone anything new. SFF ideas can, by their very nature, appear quite absurd until you've took a little time to 'earth' them into your narrative. Your plan to go for about a chapter before showing people sounds like a good option, mushroom. At least to my tastes.

Its a paradox of writing- you have to be sensitive to the world around you yet simultaneously be tough to criticism. Not always easy.

 

[MattyK]

So I suppose what I'm asking is: when writing a new project, how long do you wait before showing it to people? How to prepare yourself to take criticism on board and not take it personally?

I was in a very similar situation myself although I hadn't spent as long preparing before writing as you have. I was very reluctant to show it to anyone to begin with but then it occured to me that it would be an advantage to get criticism and feedback on it sooner rather than later. If you've written pages and pages, possibly chapters and there's a big mistake in the plot, logic or maybe writing style, it's something that will be very hard to go back and correct.

If you have this knowledge earlier on, it will be a big help instead of a big hinderance, possibly making you feel like you should just abandon the project instead.

That's just my opinion though!

 

[chrispenycate]

Writer's can't use shyness or a fear of criticism as a reason

Peter, Peter, apostrophe!

Sorry, mild detour.

I would just like to add that while criticisms here are not always pleasant, the objectivity (as far as such a subjective um subject? can achieve such) is exemplary. I don't think there is one person who, out of jealousy or narrow-mindedness says 'this story is a load of rubbish, because it's not how I would have done it', and attitude widespread elsewhere. We all want to get better, and we all want to help each other get better; imagine 'Oh, I was a Chronicles critiquer' being a sort of 'Oh, yes, I was at Milford'. It would only take a few notable successes.

But that's not the aim; improvement for everybody is (which, of course means that anybody who believes their work to have attained perfection gets quite unhappy when we don't agree).

At some point, if you want people to appreciate your work (and what other reason for creating art can there be?) you're going to have to show it to someone, and here is more civilised about ripping it to shreds than most places.

 

[The Judge]

I fully sympathise. I have always kept my writing secret from everyone but my partner - ie not just what I am writing, but the very fact of writing itself. And even my partner has only been allowed to read any of my work in the last couple of years when I felt I was writing something more important. Until then, I was writing for the enjoyment of writing and to improve my skills rather than any other purpose, so as Peter says, other people's opinions were irrelevant.

It is very much a question of knowing your own character. I know the effect that negative feedback would have on me, which is the reason I have never put anything up on the critiques forum. If you believe there is a real risk at this stage that receiving adverse criticism would stop you writing, then I would urge you not to show your work to anyone yet. Wait until you have more confidence in yourself and your ability.

Yes, if you want to be published, you will have to toughen up. But I think that will come with time.

Incidentally, I have been very lucky. Through writing critiques here, I have been approached by other Chrons members to read longer excerpts of their work. Doing this has created friendships which has given me the confidence to show my work to them, knowing that their appraisals will be kind as well as honest. Which didn't prevent me going into melt-down when I hit a bad patch confidence-wise but I got through it. And my work has improved immeasurably since.

So. My advice is to beaver away in silence until you are confident enough to accept criticism. And yes, look at the critiques which have been posted here and, using them, analyse you own work to see if you can forestall the criticisms.

Good luck

J

 

[Bontemps]

I'm in a similar position to you mushroomyakuza (nice name!). It is scary, but in the end that's why we are writing, to be read. As long as the criticism is constructive then there's no problem, it can only help.
After all it won't be you that is criticised only the words on the screen/paper, it won't be personal.
Jump into the Frigidarium, it may be cold but that cold water surely won't be as bad as you think it is.

 

[mushroomyakuza]

Thanks to all of you for the replies. There is much truth and wisdom and what you say, particularly regarding how critics here are likely to be light compared to the teeth-gnashing publishers and agents of the worlds, and more importantly, the general public.

I've decided to take J-WO and Judge's advice first though - I'm going to write more, until I feel comfortable with my story progression and see where it takes me from there. However, once I have a couple of chapters under my belt, I'll be sure to put my prologue up for all to see. All criticism is much appreciated.

Peter Graham - thanks for your advice. You quite rightly point out that writers seeking to make a living from writing perform the task like any other job, there are expectations and so on, and that a tough hide is required for it. Personally, I've enjoyed writing as a hobby since I was 16, beginning with fan-fiction (gah!), then pursuing other genres at university with my Creative Writing degree. Since uni though, I've found little time to write until now. Or at least, that's what I tell myself, and I probably just don't use the time I have, or am too lazy, or scared to get back into it. To tell you truth, I would absolutely love to be a professional, published writer, and to write for a living, but I have no idea if I'm good enough.

 

[Nik]

I prefer to write HardSF, have a long-running, multi-generational arc...

But, to counterpoint the technical detail of that *difficult* story --It is very, very hard work !!-- I keep getting ideas for 'urban fantasy'.

Wake, Grabbing For Notebook.

Often, I *must* write these tales to purge them from my system. Scribble in notebook, tweaking recursively. Type up, tweaking recursively. Sigh with premature relief...

I've variously begun, done 10~~20k or completed 'FRAN', 'MORG VR', 'Holiday From Hell', 'Plausible Vampires', 'J&M's VR', 'Sexy Androids', 'BodySwap' etc etc etc.

And, these tales are fun, fun, fun-- Even if they take me into unfamiliar territory such as 'Characterisation' and 'Dialogue', while baring my Curse Of The MisPunctuated Paragraph for all to see...

Problem is few of these 'Urban Fantasies' belong where I post my Hard SF, where I'm comfortable.

Problem is few of these tales are 'family reading': My folk respect my writing, but there are limits.

Problem is none of my tales are potentially commercial novel / novelettes. Been there, tried that, realised I have neither the 'spark' nor the bloody-mindedness to push a Manuscript beyond the slush-pile...

Um, one bizarre tale nearly became a 'Graphic Novel'. But, it would have taken a degree of commitment that I could not guarantee. (I'm a 'Designated Carer'-- I live 'Between the Tides'.) That, and seed-money, too. Recession ate my Sponsor...

So, accept that you 'Gotta Write', that it is as natural as breathing or whistling in the shower. Accept that --Barring miracles !!-- your first drafts will be, at best, rough diamonds. Accept that tidying them to meet modest literary standards will dim their fire. Accept that several major re-writes may be needed to bring out their sparkle again. Accept that this re-work may be bloody, long and hard, that the last 10% may take 90% of the total effort and require an obsessive attention to detail in the face of 'diminishing returns'. Accept that the out-come may be a nicely written tale that meets modest literary standards, yet has lost the buzz of the raw original...

Accept that you must put some ideas aside because they are beyond your skill to tell. My 'Last Train To Bangor' will never be written by me-- I'd need to be twenty-something again...

But, Write.

Gotta Write.

 

[Peter Graham]

Peter, Peter, apostrophe!

Sorry, mild detour.

Eeek! In mitigation, I plead a typo! Now please excuse me whilst I go outside and shoot myself.

But hark! What is this?

and attitude widespread elsewhere.

We all want to get better, and we all want to help each other get better; imagine 'Oh, I was a Chronicles critiquer' being a sort of 'Oh, yes, I was at Milford'. It would only take a few notable successes.

Wouldn't that be fun? Before we knew it, we'd all be living in Hampstead and being called upon to give our opinions on the sort of hapless, Londoncentric, celebrity-obsessed drivel which fills the pages of our once-proud Sunday broadsheets.

At some point, if you want people to appreciate your work (and what other reason for creating art can there be?) you're going to have to show it to someone, and here is more civilised about ripping it to shreds than most places.

Quite right. I could say that we are a kindergarten compared to what is out there, but given that most rejections contain no element of feedback and given that most editing (and even critiquing) services come at a price, I think we are fast taking on the mantle of an online writer's group, which is no bad thing.

Regards,

Peter

 

[The Pelagic Argosy]

So, you all can share your writing with your spouses/romantic partners? "Does this short story make me look fat?" I've found it to be a minefield. After the checkbook, my writing is probably the major source of friction in my marriage. Oh yeah, apparently it's that bad. What did I expect when I married His Royal Majesty, the King of Snark. He killed the project I was working on when we met. To be sure, I was frustrated with it already. Then I let him read it. "Nobody talks like this," was the comment. Jackass. After that, I couldn't look at it anymore, and I threw it all away.

But it's not the fact that my writing sucks so much you could clean the carpets with it that causes the conflict. It's the time it eats up: two hours on days that I work and up to four hours on days that I don't. You see, this is time that I could have spent making my man a sammich or taking pole-dancing lessons. What do I have to show for it in the end? Not War and Peace, as it turns out. No, I spent all that time writing total gibberish. ("Nobody talks like this." What am I supposed to do with a comment like that!? That's supposed to be helpful? Like I haven't spent my whole freaking life listening to people yak! I know how people talk! How's this for a line of dialogue: "You're bald, and I make more money than you." There! Does that sound authentic?)

I'm so lucky, though, to have a husband who will happily pitch in with the laundry, the dishes, the grocery shopping, and the bill paying to give me time to pursue my dreams. (Ha ha! I was just seeing if you were paying attention. He doesn't do any of that crap. He plays video games.)

I still let him read my stuff from time to time. I recently showed him the short story I'm working on. He said something like, "Why would a guy who works at such a big company be the only person in his department?" Ok, that's not so bad. I can live with that. I suppose he doesn't have to sleep on the couch.

 

[mushroomyakuza]

Woah.

Just woah.

 

[blacknorth]

There is much truth and wisdom and what you say, particularly regarding how critics here are likely to be light compared to the teeth-gnashing publishers and agents of the worlds, and more importantly, the general public.

On the other hand, this doesn't account for the large number of wholly bad books which make it to print. And I don't mean bad in the sense of plotting or characterisation - I mean they are barely literate. How do they get past agents and editors to the public?

I think, to be honest, that nepotism has a great deal to do with getting published. I used to write, the odd time, for the theatre. I'd submit the plays to companies and be invited along to workshops which were intended to be a one or two day testing and critique of the plays. However, these workshops quickly became hate sessions - if a flaw was found in the text it was magnified, attacked, and a black mark was made against the author. At a certain point during the hate session, when it became apparent that the company had compiled enough black marks to reject the play, the actors would begin to treat the author with contempt, taking their que, so to speak, from the decision. Which, by the way, was unspoken but always known to them.

So one would return home to the shredder, humiliated.

It usually followed that I would attend the play they DID choose to produce and, invariably, it was full of bad writing and plot holes and was savaged by the audience and critics. I can't believe that any of those chosen plays were subject to the kind of scutiny and abuse my own work received at the hate sessions, but the authors were usually in the social circle of the company. Sometimes the simplest explanation is the best.

What I took from it all: make friends, then make art.

 

[HareBrain]

But it's not the fact that my writing sucks so much you could clean the carpets with it that causes the conflict. It's the time it eats up: two hours on days that I work and up to four hours on days that I don't. You see, this is time that I could have spent making my man a sammich or taking pole-dancing lessons. What do I have to show for it in the end? Not War and Peace, as it turns out. No, I spent all that time writing total gibberish. ("Nobody talks like this." What am I supposed to do with a comment like that!? That's supposed to be helpful? Like I haven't spent my whole freaking life listening to people yak! I know how people talk! How's this for a line of dialogue: "You're bald, and I make more money than you." There! Does that sound authentic?)

Funniest thing I've read in ages

 

[The Judge]

I still let him read my stuff from time to time.

Why????

More to the point, why are you still married?

J

 

[Interference]

Judge! I'm shocked!! There's more to a loving relationship than agreement on reading materials *snooty huff*