Molly

[Amber]

Am I the only person, who disliked this innocent woman? I've thought it over a lot, and have come to the conclusion that it's because she can never share in Fitz's adventures to the full- she was only ever a looker on. In fact the relationship between them was only ever based on physical attraction. He'd have done better to stay with the Fool at the end, another plot point that made me grind my teeth.

 

[rune]

Poor Molly......

Give the lass a break. It's not just the Fool she has to contend with for Fitz's affections, but Nighteyes too. Not to mention his secret life that drags him away from her.

 

[Amber]

I know. But still, she wasn't the right person for him. They say opposites attract but this is just ridiculous.

 

[A1ien]

They were right for each other though in the end, if i remember correctly. they had kids didnt they? sorry, its a long time since i read that series

 

[Alexa]

Molly was a simple woman with sane eyes regarding the life in general. I belive Fitz loved her because of this. He was tired of all intrigues at the court, lies, murders, royalties, etc. All his life he wished to have a quite place and Molly was fit for him in this kind of life.

I think the Fool was a man after all, despite his appearence as Amber in the Livership Traders. I remember a scene where the Fool was ill and Robin Hobb mentions about Adam's apple talking about him. Sorry, I don't remember the chapter.

 

[rune]

I thought it was sad the Molly and Fitz didnt get to stay together. They had one child, which wasnt planned and then she married someone else when Fitz disappeared.

I also feel Molly was a stable element in Fitz's life, she offered him the kind of life he wanted but couldnt have.

 

[Amber]

A stable life is not a fufilled one. The blood of kings, albeit from the wrong side of the sheets flowed through Fitz's body, and to be frank picking gooseberries is never going to be his forte if you know what I mean!

He can't stay away from an adventure, he has too many scars, too much sadness, when someone is that full of personal grief, betrayal and doubt, do you think they could live hapily ever after? Think of the pyschological damage done to him, the destruction of all he valued and wanted in his life. Molly has been taken and change dinto something that he cannot follow. Her life has been different. he needed someone whose life mirrored his own at least in part.

think the Fool was a man after all, despite his appearence as Amber in the Livership Traders. I remember a scene where the Fool was ill and Robin Hobb mentions about Adam's apple talking about him. Sorry, I don't remember the chapter.

Awfully sorry but I can't see your point. Does the fool being a man, automatically preclude him being able to give fitz what he nees- maybe not sexally but certainly intimately through friendship, companionship and the love they share. Things Molly can't give him

 

[Darken Rahl]

Re: Molly *****SPOILER WARNING*******

***************SPOILER*****************

I think that part of what makes Fitz such a great character is that for most of his life he dreams of being able to get away from the path Shrewd and the Fool have thrust upon him. Yet, until the end of the Tawny Man series he is unable to do that. He tries, exiling himself to his little cottage with only Hap, Nighteyes and occasionally Starling for company, but cannot fully resolve himself to happiness. In the end he does attain that fulfilling peace with Molly and her children. To do so he has to embrace who he really is, and he could not have done that at any point until the Fool restored to him his memories from Girl-on-a-Dragon. He is then allowed to re-connect with the pain and pleasure of loving and being loved for the person Molly saw in him long ago. I sort of felt cheated when he crawled back to her, but then realized theat she was the one woman he would never doubt. She is stable in a way that none of his other relationships could ever have been, and she never stopped loving him. She really had never changed from the young woman he knew, and for the Changer in him that was the deciding factor.

 

[Amber]

Re: Molly *****SPOILER WARNING*******

***************SPOILER*****************

He is then allowed to re-connect with the pain and pleasure of loving and being loved for the person Molly saw in him long ago. I sort of felt cheated when he crawled back to her, but then realized theat she was the one woman he would never doubt. She is stable in a way that none of his other relationships could ever have been, and she never stopped loving him. She really had never changed from the young woman he knew, and for the Changer in him that was the deciding factor.

Exactly she never changed. But he had changed, and love is not unconditional. Molly would see that he is deeper and different, working on different levels almost. So yes she loved whom he had once been, and who she rememebered. He loved her for not changing. Yet they were bound to be disappointed. How would she feel when every morning, he looks out at the sea instead of at her? That when he dreams, he dreams of torture and death and the Fool, and not of her?

 

[Darken Rahl]

Re: Molly *****SPOILER WARNING*******

Exactly she never changed. But he had changed, and love is not unconditional. Molly would see that he is deeper and different, working on different levels almost. So yes she loved whom he had once been, and who she rememebered. He loved her for not changing. Yet they were bound to be disappointed. How would she feel when every morning, he looks out at the sea instead of at her? That when he dreams, he dreams of torture and death and the Fool, and not of her?

Having been married for almost ten years, I find I don't normally dream of my wife. She is my LIFE, the constant influence that keeps me anchored and sane. I dream of things that may never be, or that might have been.
That is what Molly is to FitzChivalry, that constant love, a positive affirming influence.
People change as they grow older and hopefully more mature, real love is accepting that and wanting to share that growth. In a way it is unconditional, as long as you never give up on each other.

 

[Amber]

Re: Molly *****SPOILER WARNING*******

That is what Molly is to FitzChivalry, that constant love, a positive affirming influence.
People change as they grow older and hopefully more mature, real love is accepting that and wanting to share that growth. In a way it is unconditional, as long as you never give up on each other.

I just feel that opposites don't attract as much as they are vaunted to, Fitz needs someone who understands him, and who can not only comfort him, but understand his darkest fears, and deepest knowledge of the things he has been through, in a way I truly believe none but the fool has been able to understand.

Besides what do they share apart from attraction, a daughter and twenty years of broken heart.

Fitz can't leave without that now

 

[Darken Rahl]

Re: Molly *****SPOILER WARNING*******

I never said couples had to completely understand one another. Lord knows my wife and I don't have a clue about each other at times. The strongest couples are not truly opposites, rather they are a blend of strengths that complement the weaknesses in the partner.
Fitz and Molly blend together in that way, his darkness and her light. Fitz could never find happiness with another wandering spirit, his own restlessness eats at him enough. Molly, always the homemaker, needs someone who can rouse her spirit to dream of greater things. It is the balance between partners that is the strength of their relationship.

 

[Amber]

Re: Molly *****SPOILER WARNING*******

Fitz and Molly blend together in that way, his darkness and her light. Fitz could never find happiness with another wandering spirit, his own restlessness eats at him enough. Molly, always the homemaker, needs someone who can rouse her spirit to dream of greater things. It is the balance between partners that is the strength of their relationship.

Here's a hypothetical situation. Suppose Fitz had fallen into Time's rut, and had crowned the Fool and let him die. Then he goes home. Do you think Molly would be able to console him, to give him what he needs to keep living?

I think not personally

Surely there's something wrong, when a man's best friend means more than his wife, because it is not doubted that the Fool does mean more to Fitz than Molly- he offers to come with him, instead of returning home for example.

 

[Rahl Windsong]

Re: Molly *****SPOILER WARNING*******

************Spoiler**************










Fitz and Molly married at the very end and the last line in the book was

"I am content"

For me the thing I seek most in life is to be content, if you are content your life must be good. That last line said it all for me, Fitz was content and I do not believe he ever said that before he married Molly and began to make good on the promise he made to "heart of the pack" Burrich.

Yes Fitz loved the Fool but was the Fool really ever pack? Molly was pack, Burrich was heart of the pack, and all of the children from the three of them were pack. This is why Fitz was content he was with his pack and nothing could have allowed him come to the realization, "I am content" more so then being with his pack.

He had lost Nighteyes and Burrich but his pack was, perhaps for the first time in his life, intact and that was why he never needed to bond again with another except Molly. The only parts missing from his pack were Nighteyes and Burrich, but both of them had been taken from the pack by the natural way of things. Even Nettle was now part of his pack because he was now her father in truth, though she lived at Buckkeep. So the wolf in Fitz would see the loss of Nighteyes and Burrich as part of life and be content with that.

We have to remember how much Nighteyes meant to Fitz to be able to realize why Molly was the right woman for Fitz, she was the only being capable of making him content because she had become "Heart of the pack" when Burrich was gone. By marrying Molly, Fitz became heart of his pack, nothing else could have made him feel content.

Rahl

 

[Alexa]

I agree with Rahl. Only Molly could offer a peace of mind to Fitz after all those years of suffering.

 

[rune]

What is true happiness? That question probably eludes all of us. To be content, I feel, is the best any of us can really hope for

So in that matter Fitz got what he wanted and what was best for him.

 

[Amber]

What is true happiness? That question probably eludes all of us. To be content, I feel, is the best any of us can really hope for

So in that matter Fitz got what he wanted and what was best for him.

But was he content? In a bit I'll root up the quotes I got from Fool's Fate, and do a post on them (or edit this one) which show quite plainly how apart they are, and the deeper things behind that facade of love.

I challenge someone in the meantime to find some to refute it

 

[Alexa]

I believe he was. I don't doubt his words in the end of the book :

My days with the Fool ended like a half-played game of Stones, the outcome poised and uncertain, possibilities hovering. Sometimes it seemed to me a cruelty that so much was unresolved between us; at other times, a blessing that a hope of reunion lingered. It is like the anticipation that a clever minstrel evokes when he pauses, letting silence pool before sweeping into the final refrain of his song. Sometimes a gap can seem like a promise yet to be fulfilled. I miss him often, but in the same way that I miss Nighteyes. I know that such a one will not come again. I count myself fortunate for what I had of them. I do not think I will ever Wit-bond again, or know such a deep friendship as I had with the Fool. As Burrich once observed to

 

[Alexa]

Oops, it went faster than I was expecting. Sorry, here you have the end of my quote :

(...) Patience, one horse cannot wear two saddles. I have Molly and she is enough for me, and more.

I am content.

For me this is enough.

 

[Rahl Windsong]

The thing is though, no matter what woman came into Fitz's life he always longed for Molly. If I remember right he started to see Molly right about the same time he bonded with Nighteyes. That is why my theory that Molly is the right woman for Fitz rings true. They both came into his life at almost the same time and even Nighteyes regarded Molly as pack. I don't have the books here they are in my storage locker but I am certain Nighteyes regarded Molly as pack.

The only questions I have are...

Are Kettricken and Duitiful also pack? I think they are and any offspring that comes from Duitiful is also pack. Also is Chade pack? That I can't answer. And...Did Thick become pack? The Fool never was pack he was too alien to be so. Fitz did love him but the Fool was never pack.

From his bonding to Nighteyes, Molly became the only woman for Fitz. I truely do believe that, and Molly was the only reason Fitz was able to be content after loosing Nigheyes.

Of course this is only my oppinion

Rahl