Why is Erikson like Marmite? (please, non-fans too!)

[hodor]

Agreed on this. GOTM can turn alot of ppl off because you are thrown into something immediately and it is fully confusing with little character backgrounds or developement; I, at first, did not like this. However, after DHG I found it a necessity for him and his style and fairly genius. His works are excellent and there are only two authors who have had me as addicted as I am: Erikson and Martin.

I am not sure if it is just me but with most books and with character developement styles and what not you (or at least me) can find yourself skipping a paragraph here and there but with Erikson I find that I read every single word and do not find any useless dialogue that could be over read just to get on with the story.

 

[SEF]

Gollum,

Since we have similar tastes, I am reading a historical mystery book written by Michael Jecks, a series of books takes place in the 14th century featuring a former Knights Templar and a Bailiff.

Here is a repost of mine from Ran's board:

I am reading The Last Templar, it begins with the March 18, 1314 public trial of Grand Master Jacques de Molay and the other three officers. With Sir Baldwin a truly tormented and sympathic character sent forth by small fugitive band of Knights Templars to witness the confession and trial publicly conducted by the inquisition and clergy, in which de Molay and Geoffrey de Charney plead innocence to unjust charges which led to their immolation executions soon afterwards on a island.

We see all the drama through Sir Baldwin's pov and it is quite stirring and well written. Revealing a storm of emotions and confusion within Baldwin.

I won't go any further than that but this is good, good stuff. GRRM fans should seriously consider reading it. Sir Baldwin comes off as haunted, world-weary, and edgy Dirty Harry type Knights Templar in seclusion with even a melancholy sense of humour and lighter side, well, within the small progress I've made in this novel so far. All the other characters are well presented too but alittle early to give an opinion of Bailiff Simon Puttock but he has some interesting depths and quirks.

Some of the observations could be dismissed by the writers but this is just an offhand summation. Under the strong impression this is excellent material!

 

[GOLLUM]

SEF,Hodor and Byrs,

I pretty much agree on those observations reagrding GOTM and the rest of the malazan series, as you all say Martin and Erikson are close to the top of the tree.

Bakker's not too far behind them either and I'd like to throw in another author Paul Kearney, esepcially his current book Mark Of Ran. Well written and probably on a par with possibly Bakker and certainly authors like Keyes, Williams etc... I'd suggest you check this author and book out, good stuff. Certainly one of the best fantasy books of 2005 IMHO..

Thanks for the suggestion on Michael Jecks SEF. I'll defintely pursue his book.

Also if you like military fantasy with fairly gritty characters you may want to check out Glenn Cook's Black Company. Some of the earlier books are not easy to get hold off but well written to my way of thinking. Erikson rates Cook, Kearney and Bakker amongst the best of the modern day fantasy writers.

Bye for now...

 

[polymorphikos]

I think my problem with the first book (and I'm going to stick to the first book, as I haven't read the others and he did launch the series with it and expect people to regard it as something of an indication) was that I didn't find it half as complicated as everyone goes-on about.

The magic systems were like something out of a ten year old's card game, the history was pretty average, the cultures were unenticing, the characters were call stock and the 'gritty realism' eluded to on the back cover was in reality a lacking of the fantastic.


I stand by my statement of laser shows and fireworks. But I also reiterate that i enjoyed the book quite a bit. I just didn't think it was all that.

 

[Rane Longfox]

The magic systems were like something out of a ten year old's card game

Now why do you say that? Even people who didn't like the book (that I've encountered) still liked the magic system.

 

[Brys]

SEF,Hodor and Byrs,

I pretty much agree on those observations reagrding GOTM and the rest of the malazan series, as you all say Martin and Erikson are close to the top of the tree.

Bakker's not too far behind them either and I'd like to throw in another author Paul Kearney, esepcially his current book Mark Of Ran. Well written and probably on a par with possibly Bakker and certainly authors like Keyes, Williams etc... I'd suggest you check this author and book out, good stuff. Certainly one of the best fantasy books of 2005 IMHO..

Thanks for the suggestion on Michael Jecks SEF. I'll defintely pursue his book.

Also if you like military fantasy with fairly gritty characters you may want to check out Glenn Cook's Black Company. Some of the earlier books are not easy to get hold off but well written to my way of thinking. Erikson rates Cook, Kearney and Bakker amongst the best of the modern day fantasy writers.

Bye for now...

I've read R Scott Bakker's The Darkness that Comes Before - very good, but not quite as good as Erikson or Martin. I'm planning on reading the Warrior Prophet soon, and I'm planning on getting some Paul Kearney stuff (Erikson recommended it, and so far that hasn't gone wrong at all). I've read the first Black Company book and that was pretty good as well, though a bit short and very different in style to Erikson, though the militaristic parts are similar.

 

[SEF]

Agreed on this. GOTM can turn alot of ppl off because you are thrown into something immediately and it is fully confusing with little character backgrounds or developement; I, at first, did not like this. However, after DHG I found it a necessity for him and his style and fairly genius. His works are excellent and there are only two authors who have had me as addicted as I am: Erikson and Martin.

I am not sure if it is just me but with most books and with character developement styles and what not you (or at least me) can find yourself skipping a paragraph here and there but with Erikson I find that I read every single word and do not find any useless dialogue that could be over read just to get on with the story.

Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Erikson draws my eyes to every word of narrative and piece of dialogue, because he has a fabulous grasp on detail and descriptive dynamics (without dulling readers) and characterization. Truly has that wonderland effect on me. There is really only one piece in the whole Malazan Epic I've read so far that I struggled with and that was the Mhybe and Silverfox plot in MoI, was a abit too repetitive and there were more interesting going-ons in the book itself too straddling this one.

Thanks for the recs Gollum! I have read a couple of Kearney's Monarchies books, they were quite good just never finished the series unfortunately. Just seemed they were lacking in scale in something or other. I love the description of the new series and look forward to obtaining the books here in the States and probably more polished than Monarchies.

 

[GOLLUM]

Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Erikson draws my eyes to every word of narrative and piece of dialogue, because he has a fabulous grasp on detail and descriptive dynamics (without dulling readers) and characterization. Truly has that wonderland effect on me. There is really only one piece in the whole Malazan Epic I've read so far that I struggled with and that was the Mhybe and Silverfox plot in MoI, was a abit too repetitive and there were more interesting going-ons in the book itself too straddling this one.

Thanks for the recs Gollum! I have read a couple of Kearney's Monarchies books, they were quite good just never finished the series unfortunately. Just seemed they were lacking in scale in something or other. I love the description of the new series and look forward to obtaining the books here in the States and probably more polished than Monarchies.

SEF,

I've read The Monarchies series (5 books) and it does improve as you progress with the story. However his new book Mark Of Ran is YES a level or three above Monarchies in terms of polish. I'll be interested to know your thoughts on this book...

 

[GOLLUM]

I've read R Scott Bakker's The Darkness that Comes Before - very good, but not quite as good as Erikson or Martin. I'm planning on reading the Warrior Prophet soon, and I'm planning on getting some Paul Kearney stuff (Erikson recommended it, and so far that hasn't gone wrong at all). I've read the first Black Company book and that was pretty good as well, though a bit short and very different in style to Erikson, though the militaristic parts are similar.

Brys,

Good to see you're investigating Black Company. Erikson unsuprisingly cites Glen Cook as a major influrence on his own writing.

Monarchies (5 books) is quite good by Kearney but his new book Mark Of Ran is the one I'd be going for if it was me...

 

[GOLLUM]

I think my problem with the first book (and I'm going to stick to the first book, as I haven't read the others and he did launch the series with it and expect people to regard it as something of an indication) was that I didn't find it half as complicated as everyone goes-on about.

The magic systems were like something out of a ten year old's card game, the history was pretty average, the cultures were unenticing, the characters were call stock and the 'gritty realism' eluded to on the back cover was in reality a lacking of the fantastic.


I stand by my statement of laser shows and fireworks. But I also reiterate that i enjoyed the book quite a bit. I just didn't think it was all that.

I understand where you're coming from but with all due respect you really need to read up to the end of Book 3 Memories Of Ice to get a true perspective on this author's works.

After reading GOTM I thought this author was pretty good but certainly not the best I'd read although still worth checking out further BUT it was really only by the end of Book 3 that the full depth of his world building and magic systems is fully realised and the point at which I had him at the top of my list.

GOTM is easily the weakest book in the series but things do improve dramatically from Book 2 onwards IMHO...

Over and out...

 

[polymorphikos]

They have Deadhouse at the library, and I'm on holidays. I'll knock-over Island then tackle the becloaked titan.

 

[nixie]

I loved GOTM and I don't really understand the problems People have with it,ok there is a lot of characters and sub plots,but they all tie in.I'm not quite sure what part Tattersail is going to play but that will be come clear eventually.Kruppe I didn't like at first but now he's one of my favourites

 

[GOLLUM]

I loved GOTM and I don't really understand the problems People have with it,ok there is a lot of characters and sub plots,but they all tie in.I'm not quite sure what part Tattersail is going to play but that will be come clear eventually.Kruppe I didn't like at first but now he's one of my favourites

The issues were more at the beginning of the book in the first few hundred pages for people trying to understand how everything ties in but by book's end as I've said before Erikson ties most loose threads together.

Glad you liked my fav author Nixie, I'm sure you'll enjoy Deadhouse Gates, let us know how you go...

 

[rune]

How I felt about the first book and then trying the 2nd has already been mentioned

I dont mind a complex plot as long as it's written in a way that's reasonably easy to follow. Erikson, IMHO, doesnt write like that. If he did I would still be reading his book.

 

[GOLLUM]

Yes I suspect he writes that way on purpose Rune.

 

[Rosemary]

Yes I suspect he writes that way on purpose Rune.

I just wonder how many people he has put off by writing that way though?
Luckily for Mr Erikson, I have been determined and of course, reasured that it will get better! I am finding Memories of Ice so much easier to read. Occasionally I have to check the glossary to double check on a name or other detail but apart from that, I have started to enjoy it !

 

[Brys]

He's probably put off as many people as he's turned into huge fans by writing in this way. But does it really matter? The people who manage to catch as wide an audience as possible exclude people looking for something more complex, and Erikson decides for once not to focus exclusively on making as much money as possible through it.

 

[GOLLUM]

I just wonder how many people he has put off by writing that way though?
Luckily for Mr Erikson, I have been determined and of course, reasured that it will get better! I am finding Memories of Ice so much easier to read. Occasionally I have to check the glossary to double check on a name or other detail but apart from that, I have started to enjoy it !

See I told you it got easier to follow Rosemary....

 

[Jonzey]

Yeah, I remember having trouble when I first started, but a friend urged me on. So glad I did cos its my favourite series ever.

 

[GOLLUM]

Hello there fellow Melbournian, nice to see another Erikson fan on board...