Cersei (Contains spoliers)

[Needle]

you're underestimating checkers here.
mind you sacrificing pieces of your own board to get an advantage often works like a charm with that game. and cersei would be good at sending her own to their deaths for her own good.

No, not underestimating checkers, that was part of the point!

Such play allows you to win, but it is a short term game.

 

[Mesanna]

But as Cersei was raised by Lord Tywin, who knew his golden children were perfect, and took great pains to let the rest of the world know it too, she was raised with the knowledge that she was an unparalleled beauty, something that would most certainly shape and define her image of herself. So to lose her queen-ship to someone "younger and more beautiful" does not just suggest that she loses what goes along with being queen, but that she will lose a great deal more, and what could be worse than not only losing the position you worked so hard to attain and keep, but to in essence lose everything that defined you as you? So ultimately, it's not just her position or family, but her identity that's at stake.

I think that would be more than enough to screw with someone's head. My two cents.

This is interesting. Maybe, instead of being executed, Cersei's prison sentence will leave her maimed or disfigured as punishment by the High Septon, which would parallel Jaime's maiming. It would be interesting to see how the two of them deal with the maiming in their own ways. Jaime, so far, seems to be becoming a better man for his injury, but I agree it could be the undoing of Cersei.

I like the emphasis you've made on her losing "all" she holds dear. Cersei values her looks and their effect on males highly. She often thinks about how she can use sex to twist men around her finger, and it's sad in a way that she thinks this is the only power she can have as a woman. But I would love to read about a Cersei scarred and burned (like the way Loras is alleged to be, and, sidenote, I wonder how that pretty boy will deal with the loss of his looks). I just don't think Cersei has it in her to recover from something like that.

 

[Syphon of Oor-Tael]

This is interesting. Maybe, instead of being executed, Cersei's prison sentence will leave her maimed or disfigured as punishment by the High Septon, which would parallel Jaime's maiming. It would be interesting to see how the two of them deal with the maiming in their own ways. Jaime, so far, seems to be becoming a better man for his injury, but I agree it could be the undoing of Cersei.

I like the emphasis you've made on her losing "all" she holds dear. Cersei values her looks and their effect on males highly. She often thinks about how she can use sex to twist men around her finger, and it's sad in a way that she thinks this is the only power she can have as a woman. But I would love to read about a Cersei scarred and burned (like the way Loras is alleged to be, and, sidenote, I wonder how that pretty boy will deal with the loss of his looks). I just don't think Cersei has it in her to recover from something like that.

But neither Cersei nor Loras depend ONLY on their looks. While I do think that both of them are vain enough to suffer from losing good looks, Cersei will maintain her brains and money from Casterly Rock (Remember, that's all Tyrion has to go by and he's done well for himself), and Loras will still be a good fighter. Ugly as sin, but still smart and/or able to fight.

 

[Mesanna]

I don't think Cersei or Loras depend solely on their looks, but they won't hesitate to use their attractiveness to their advantage. Cersei thrives on power, rather than on brains, beauty or money, and she uses her looks as a means of attaining it. She wants people to look at her with awe, or fear, or lust; not with pity or contempt, the way they look at Tyrion.

To be honest, I'm not sure Tyrion is the best example of someone "doing well for himself" despite his lack of good looks. Sure, he's highly intelligent, capable and resourceful, but who, in general, realises this? How much respect does he get from his peers or even the common folk? How much power does Tyrion actually have? Westeros is a medieval society that despises and exploits weakness, and any kind of deformity is regarded as a shortcoming. I think Cersei would probably throw herself off of Casterly Rock if people were to discount her the way they do with Tyrion. She already has a giant chip on her shoulder that she doesn't get the respect she feels she deserves because she's merely a woman. How would she be treated if she were a hideously maimed one?

Tyrion's had a lifetime to get used to being treated as an unwanted outcast, and even he doesn't always manage well. Cersei was always the golden girl, as Lyanna says, and I just think that mentally she could not cope if she were to be treated similarly. She despises deformity. We see this clearly enough with Tyrion, but we also see it when she feels a little disgusted when she sees Jaime's stump of a hand. And this was the guy she was supposed to love above all else? How would she feel about deformity on her own body, when it appals her so on other people?

I'm not seriously proposing that any of this might happen, but it's interesting to speculate how a character would cope with a new situation (though, who would have predicted Arya going blind, even if temporarily?) I would *love* to see Cersei deal with something of this nature, even though I suspect it would be the beginning of the end for her.

 

[Eulalia]

It's still my pet crackpot theory. The powers that be give Cersei a choice between death and becoming a silent sister. Thus she loses her status as a queen, power in the game of thrones, being a Lannister, Casterly rock her femininity to some extent, her elibility in the marriage market and access to men. Then someone strangles her after her kids are killed. The omens are bad.

 

[Mesanna]

Oh dear Eulalia, that's a grim outlook!

I think Cersei would chose to be executed rather than face that life. She's not afraid to die, as she proved when she had Ilyn Payne on standby when Kings Landing was under attack. She said she'd rather die than bend the knee to Stannis, and I actually quite admired her for her conviction there.

I wonder if either Myrcella or Tommen will be off'd in ADwD. It's surely got to start in the next book or two. We should have a sweepstake

 

[Eulalia]

I think Cersei might take the veil, very insincerely, just to survive. But she's a little unstable at the moment! The prophecy is all about losing everything that she holds dear. And didn't a few of the ladies in the Wars of the Roses (including the "She Wolf") end up in a nunnery? Anyway, I can make a case for it, crackpot and all.

Tommen next perhaps? Surely George wouldn't have Myrcella survive a maiming just to die so soon after? And she has to be crowned, yet.

 

[TK-421]

Cersei's three biggest problems in her current state of affairs are:

1) Sense of superiority
2) No forethought or long-term thinking
3) She's not a man (I mean this that a woman in Westeros is not viewed/treated the same as a man no matter how high-born they are)

 

[Mesanna]

2) No forethought or long-term thinking

I think that Cersei's problem is not so much a complete lack of forethought, but more that she only views how issues will affect herself, or her immediate family. She doesn't consider how a decision will affect the realm, or how other high families might react to her rulings (unless she's deliberately trying to put one over them). She also far too impressed with her own cleverness and thinks she knows it all/can do it all. A wiser person would ask for advice and counsel but Cersei is either too insecure or too egotistical to do that. I feel sorry for her some times. Other times I really hate her.

 

[juleska]

I think that Cersei's problem is not so much a complete lack of forethought, but more that she only views how issues will affect herself, or her immediate family. She doesn't consider how a decision will affect the realm, or how other high families might react to her rulings (unless she's deliberately trying to put one over them). She also far too impressed with her own cleverness and thinks she knows it all/can do it all. A wiser person would ask for advice and counsel but Cersei is either too insecure or too egotistical to do that. I feel sorry for her some times. Other times I really hate her.

I don't even think she considers how things will affect her family....only herself. She "thinks" she's helping Tommen (or so she says) by getting rid of Margarey, but really she was only getting rid of her competition. If she possessed the capacity to step outside of herself and look at the big picture she would comprehend what a disastrous course she'd set upon. I don't buy into the argument that she's "extremely intelligent" at all. She's quick thinking, but her gut reaction is almost always wrong and the consequences are monstrously bad. Her success to this point has purely been by the design of other people smarter, stronger or otherwise more capable than herself and the good fortune of her birth station and her looks. By the way her beauty isn't a skill, it's just luck. All the gold of Casterly Rock wouldn't have helped her if she'd been born ugly. Just look at Tyrion. Now HE has wits!

 

[Tansy]

In AFFC, Cersei is so hung up on stopping Maggie the Frog's prediction from coming true that she loses any sense she had, every night she dreams of Maggie and Tyrion and drinks wine during the day to forget the dreams.

Cersei hates being alone, she is used to Jaime's constant companionship, now she has no-one her father is dead, her uncle ashamed of her, Jaime is a changed man. She takes Taena Merryweather into her bed as she can't stand sleeping alone. She thinks to fill her council with weak men who won't say no to her, in reality this leaves her more alone than ever and slowly she is losing it

 

[juleska]

Reading all the threads linked in this one and enjoying it immensely. I just wanted to share one little bit that dawned on me as I was finishing up AFFC last night. This plays to Illifer's "Cersei is always wrong" theory. Cersei if you recall is utterly clueless that Loras is gay (and apparently Renly as well as she refuses to believe he didn't consummate his marriage with Margarey). When it's reported to her that Loras spends more time in Margarey's room than any other male visitor she has a moment where she clearly believes's Loras & Margarey have the same kind of relationship that she and Jamie have shared. She then conspires to take her sweet brother away from her, thinking she is depriving her of her true lover....and in the process her behavior so strains her relationship with Jamie that she in fact is the one who loses her lover.

Vengeance is delicious. I can't wait to start ADWD.

 

[Mesanna]

LOL, yes there is a definite irony there. Cersei is sooo frustrating!!

Juleska, I know you said you don't think she's intelligent but I don't completely agree with that. I think she has brains but she just doesn't use them. Her vision is so narrow that she is blind to the bigger picture, but it's not stupidity that holds her back. It's her own dam arrogance. It's that whole "I'm Cersei Lannister of Casterly Rock and the world will move the way I want it to" attitude. Unfortunately the world didn't get the memo and continues to do it's own thing!

I honestly think Cersei has mental health issues and she needs to be taken in hand by someone, but she was so drunk on the power she thought she had in AFfC that she wouldn't listen to anyone and no-one else had the power to reign her in. I don't know how much she'll feature in ADwD and, of course, the big question is whether Jaime will return to save her!

 

[Tansy]

It was finding out that Pycelle was supplying Margaery with Moon tea that mainly pushed her to that conclusion, is Moon Tea used for anything else?

I guess Margaery could be giving it to one of her handmaidens to use if they are having an illicit affair with a knight?

Without her family to support her and since Joff's death Cersei is def unhinged She's paronoid and delusional just for a start