Star Wars: The Clone Wars

[Captain Campion]

I honestly think the Clone Wars era is ripe with possibilities. The Original Trilogy era wasn't really much of a war. It was mostly full of episodes which featured the Empire searching out hidden rebel bases, and maybe small rebel strike groups performing hit and run attacks against the Empire. Any large scale battles took place on screen in the movies. There isn't much left to work with in that erah as far as depicting a full scale war goes. I wasn't too satisfied with most of the conflicts that the Extended Universe books were able to portray after ROTJ. I liked the Grand Admiral Thrawn Trilogy, and I liked the Rogue Squadron series. The Jedi Academy Trilogy was ok. I wasn't thrilled by the New Jedi Order or the Corelian Trilogy, or the Black Fleet Crisis.

I just think it is a very difficult thing to come up with interesting villains and conflicts that weren't first established by George Lucas. Not that I think he is perfect, but a lot of the post ROTJ stuff seems counterfiet, and reads like soap operas.

The Clone Wars are altogether different though. The prequels didn't focus much on actually showing what went on in the battle field. But they did show enough so that the audience knew it was a full scale war on multiple fronts, so there are endless full scale battle scenarios that our heroes can encounter in the show.

I think the show drops the ball in one critical regard. The heroes seem to turn up victorious at the end of almost every campaign. I think that is hurting the suspense factor a lot. General Grievous was supposed to be a military genuis, who almost never lost a battle, save for when the Sith Lords set him up to loose. This cartoon doesn't really depict him in that light.

I think the problem with The Clone Wars (the setting) is that we all know at this point that it's a farse: my understanding (based on Revenge of the Sith) is that Sidious is in control of both sides, essentially, and knows how it's all supposed to end (and it does). In this case, I think Lucas painted himself into a corner and while I watch The Clone Wars now and then (my kids love it), I can't help thinking that each big battle is essentially pointless because there's no way the separatists will end up winning the conflict.

As for the Galactic Civil War, I used to work for the company that at one time made the Star Wars roleplaying game(early 90s; in fact, the big battle tank the clones use in Sith on Kashyaak was designed by our artists and was originally called a "Juggernaut").

Anyway, one point that was supposedly understood between Lucas films and our writers was that there was room for dramatic battles out at the galactic rim, where it was assumed the Empire could only deploy limited resources. Hence, you could have big battles where the rebels won (or lost) that would not effect the continuity of the original series. Might be some fertile ground to be explored there. I thought there was a live action series coming that would do exactly that, but haven't heard anything in a while.

 

[C Of K]

Hi, and welcome Captain Campion.

I can't agree more with everything you said. The fact that the outcome of the clone wars was basically all a sham is perhaps the very reason we will only see it in cartoon form from now on. In most cases only children will immerse themselves in such a thing. That's probably why the bad guys never seem to win on the cartoon.

I also heard about that live action tv show, but that was a long time ago. I haven't heard a peep from anyone about that for several years now. I wouldn't hold my breath for it. I get the feeling that fans will likely have to settle for cartoons and video games from now on.

As for the Galactic Civil War, I used to work for the company that at one time made the Star Wars roleplaying game(early 90s; in fact, the big battle tank the clones use in Sith on Kashyaak was designed by our artists and was originally called a "Juggernaut").

I'm jealous. What role playing game was it? The Jedi knight series with Mystery of the Sith?

 

[Captain Campion]

Hi, and welcome Captain Campion.

I can't agree more with everything you said. The fact that the outcome of the clone wars was basically all a sham is perhaps the very reason we will only see it in cartoon form from now on. In most cases only children will immerse themselves in such a thing. That's probably why the bad guys never seem to win on the cartoon.

I also heard about that live action tv show, but that was a long time ago. I haven't heard a peep from anyone about that for several years now. I wouldn't hold my breath for it. I get the feeling that fans will likely have to settle for cartoons and video games from now on.



I'm jealous. What role playing game was it? The Jedi knight series with Mystery of the Sith?[/QUOTE]

Nothing quite so impressive. This was the pen and paper role playing game (like Dungeons and Dragons but for Star Wars) back in the early 90s. I'm not sure if it's still being published. Probably is, but the company I worked for went under about ten years ago, so I know they don't hold the license anymore.

 

[Rodders]

Is that the old west End Games version?

 

[Captain Campion]

Is that the old west End Games version?

Yep. I still have an old "Imperial Source Book" laying around, unfortunately my son ripped it up pretty good over the years.

 

[Cayal]

Star Wars isn't really as vast as it sometimes pretends to be. I think George Lucas knows this. The big problem with the KOTOR games, the Tales of the Jedi series, and any other stories that have gone back that far, is that they all retell Darth Vader's story over and over again, just with different characters.

The jedi are always being wiped out by sith lords in a war that engulfs the galaxy, the ending of which often eludes to the return of the jedi. When I watched that second trailer that was released for the TOR game, I could swear that the troopers were Jango Fett clones.

I can see why George Lucas would have no interest in telling that story more than once, when he can just build upon the story and characters that he's already developed. Not that KOTOR is bad. I find enjoyment in those games, but other than a bunch of scoundrels running around with swords, those games and comics aren't much different than his movies.

I disagree, though do agree it seems to be a retelling of Vader but the possibilities could be anything.
The origins of the Jedi could be anything, they didn't have to begin as an order protecting against evil. Surely people weren't as accepting of a suddenly popping up of a new order to protect them.

The Sith have an interesting history with Darth Bane and his rule of two and what happened to them before hand

 

[C Of K]

The truth is, the prequels failed to represent the clone wars adequately. A lot of story was lost in between the scenes. There is so much back story just waiting to be developed still.

While video games and comic books go way back into history, and destroy the jedi order every 100 years, George Lucas has tried to fill in the gaps in the story that he started.

If he ever does decide to do any more historical settings within the Star Wars time line, he'd better act fast, or there may be no time left to work with. But then, he does have over a thousand generations of time to work with, so who knows.

 

[JustPassingThrough]

Okay, so it's old, like Obi-Wan old, but I will give it mouth to mouth:

I like the show and think right now it is the best thing going in the Star Wars universe (bibliophiles I have my lightsaber ready to duel). I think they've added greatly to the characters and what's even more surprising is that it's dark for a cartoon. I mean, I grew up with G.I.Joe and so I remember that how the laser guns never hit anyone and you always had to show a parachute if the plane went down, here we've seen some clones dies and some significant characters go to the Force.

 

[C Of K]

i just learned that Admiral Yularen

is this guy

from the first Death Star.

The show is ok. I really wish they would air the episodes in order instead of spreading episodes from single campaigns throughout every season. I didn't care for last season really. I liked two or three episodes.

G.I.Joe was more geared toward children. I think they're a bit confused as to who their target audience is for Clone Wars. Just compare the endings of every G.I. Joe episode with the beginnings of every Clone wars episode. Duke or someone would always tell kids what the moral of the story was in easy to understand terms. Clone Wars gives us, often vague, proverbs that you forget about just as soon as the episode begins.

 

[JustPassingThrough]

I liked G.I. Joe at the time and think of it with fondness. "And now you know, and knowing is half the battle."

I am a big fan of The Clone Wars and laughed so much that my belly jiggled like a bowl full of jelly when fans that were just tearing it apart right before it started slowly started to realize that it was getting better and better with each episode.

 

[Cayal]

i just learned that Admiral Yularen

is this guy

from the first Death Star.

The show is ok. I really wish they would air the episodes in order instead of spreading episodes from single campaigns throughout every season. I didn't care for last season really. I liked two or three episodes.

G.I.Joe was more geared toward children. I think they're a bit confused as to who their target audience is for Clone Wars. Just compare the endings of every G.I. Joe episode with the beginnings of every Clone wars episode. Duke or someone would always tell kids what the moral of the story was in easy to understand terms. Clone Wars gives us, often vague, proverbs that you forget about just as soon as the episode begins.

For some reason, The Clone Wars airs episodes that are out of timeline order, the storylines aren't linear. But it is apparently intentional.

 

[C Of K]

No doubt. I just think it would be a lot less confusing if they wouldn't spread the prequels and sequels from season to season. Give me the whole battle of Christophsis in one movie. Don't launch the show by showing the end of that battle as the beginning of a movie, the beginning of it in season 2, and the middle of it in season 3.

If you watch all of that battle, back to back, in order, it is very exciting. You see the obvious progression of events. You know why they are stuck there with no communications or back up at the beginning of that movie. Perhaps most importantly, you become more familiar with the characters who are only involved in that story. This of course is only one example. I'm sure there is loads of stuff like this spread throughout three seasons.

EDIT: I think the Battle of Christophsis took place because the Confederacy had cut off the Republic's supply of clones by taking that world. However, that is only mentioned in the beginning of the season two episode. An easy thing to forget from one season to another, but it is a very important part of the story. These are just certain problems I see with the way they do things.

 

[Huttman]

I just wanted to put a little revival to this thread to remark about how noticeably better the show has been written since the start of season five. I have enjoyed the show since its inception, but there has been an obvious improvement to the structure of each episode recently. The Darth Maul story arc was very exiting, the Onderon story arc was compelling and the Youngling arc was fantastic. The character Hondo has been recurring a great deal and I could not be happier about that. He truly is one of the best characters created for this universe since Boba Fett, but, he is not the only reason for the shows improvement. These (3) stories feel more like Star Wars than many previous ones. There have been so many subtle details, character glances, background actions and surprises that have all stepped up the quality of this show. It makes me very happy - just thought I would share.

 

[ctg]

Just a note for you that has been watching this wonderful series is that Darth Sidious visiting Darth Maul will launch the Revenge of the Sith (story arch). So we are looking at the end of the this mostly well done series in near future.

 

[Cayal]

I just wanted to put a little revival to this thread to remark about how noticeably better the show has been written since the start of season five. I have enjoyed the show since its inception, but there has been an obvious improvement to the structure of each episode recently. The Darth Maul story arc was very exiting, the Onderon story arc was compelling and the Youngling arc was fantastic. The character Hondo has been recurring a great deal and I could not be happier about that. He truly is one of the best characters created for this universe since Boba Fett, but, he is not the only reason for the shows improvement. These (3) stories feel more like Star Wars than many previous ones. There have been so many subtle details, character glances, background actions and surprises that have all stepped up the quality of this show. It makes me very happy - just thought I would share.

One thing that kind of bugs me is Anakin is still a very very good guy. He's really had two moments of dark side actions that show what he would become.

Revenge of the Sith did a poor job in his downfall, the Clone Wars could do a good job bridging and showing how he was going down a dark path but he is too happy and still too good.

Also I would like to see Anakin vs Maul.

 

[ctg]

Wow.

The Emperor is BEAST. He is the boss. And unfortunately that is all I can say for tonight. Check the episode, it's wicked.

 

[Cayal]

Wow.

The Emperor is BEAST. He is the boss. And unfortunately that is all I can say for tonight. Check the episode, it's wicked.

Yeah, that was awesome.

I saw a review that had it rated 9.3 and read the spoiler of what Maul did but I didn't know what happened at the end. I was thinking, this is a cool episode but not THAT good...until the end.

Just wow. That was so damn cool.

 

[ctg]

Did you notice that Obiwan used the "if you strike me down..." line even though Yoda had not given him the technique. Then there was another one with the Emperor (Imperial March), or even two as he hinted about the "new apprentice."

Thing is that like I said, this episode launches the last movie and I'm looking forward to wrap up this season in most epic way, but I also wish that they'll continue exploring the universe after the episode III.

 

[Cayal]

They really need to focus on Anakin's fall though. It is still unbelievable he would suddenly turn and there's been one or two incidences of Dark Side activity from him in the Clone Wars.

Actually he hasn't even been in this season. Not really.

 

[ctg]

They have my full confidence and I trust they haven't forgotten the "new apprentice."