Self-publishers versus book reviewers - FIGHT!

[Scarfy]

To me, those are the worst sort - you feel pressured to buy/read them, but what if they turn out to be (like most self-published books) truly awful?

This is true of any book, though. If you network with a lot of writers, you may find yourself getting on with them well and it's always nice to see them at signings, events and such.

Then you eventually get around to reading their book and don't like it.

So, what do you say?

Simple - you tell them the truth and say it didn't work for you. A shame you didn't enjoy it, but if it doesn't work for you, then it doesn't work for you.

Sure, self publishers might take it a little more personally, because they don't want people to think that their opus is a load of garbage, but so long as you try and be constructive with your criticism, you'll be doing them a favour.

 

[Ian Whates]

Sure, self publishers might take it a little more personally, because they don't want people to think that their opus is a load of garbage, but so long as you try and be constructive with your criticism, you'll be doing them a favour.

Hmmm... What makes you think that self published authors are any more likely not to want people to 'think that their opus is a load of garbage' than those published by a larger publisher?

Do you honestly think any author cares less about his work if it's published by somebody else?

 

[Scarfy]

Do you honestly think any author cares less about his work if it's published by somebody else?

Actually, I do think they care. A great deal, in fact. Your book's your baby, after all - no one wants to hear that it's ugly.

I think I've made myself misunderstood by attempting to put forward an opinion that's been poorly explained. Probably best I save face now by not trying to explain it further and paint myself into a corner...

I'll just say that if I don't like someone's book, I tend to stay mum on the subject of having read it, since I don't want to hurt someone's feelings.

 

[Ursa major]

So that's what the noise within is....


*cough*


One reason that a self-published author may be more sensitive about their work is that it hasn't (for whatever reason, inlcuding non-submission) been accepted by a publishing house, so there's been no independent (professional) validation of its quality.


(There are also those who have, in the past, posted something to be critiqued - sometimes with the introductory words, "I felt I had to write this and post it straight way" - who've reacted vehemently when someone has pointed out, as kindly as they could, the atrocious grammar and spelling. Who would want to meet one of these authors face to face and tell them book isn't perfect?)

 

[Anne Lyle]

One reason that a self-published author may be more sensitive about their work is that it hasn't (for whatever reason, inlcuding non-submission) been accepted by a publishing house, so there's been no independent (professional) validation of its quality.

Exactly! If I meet a conventionally published author, I have no problem telling "This isn't my sort of thing", because they've already had the validation of being paid for their work, so my opinion is just that of one random reader. Whereas for a self-published author, the only validation is positive reader reaction - and I feel awkward if I can't provide that.

 

[Brian G Turner]

One reason that a self-published author may be more sensitive about their work is that it hasn't (for whatever reason, inlcuding non-submission) been accepted by a publishing house, so there's been no independent (professional) validation of its quality.

Exactly - I think learning a degree of maturity is absolutely essential if someone is serious about being published.

Unfortunately, it's too easy to fall into the "Shakespeare Trap" - essentially, the fact that you're able to write is amazing, you have therefore written something amazing, therefore your work is a piece of amazing art (in future generations will be remembered as a defining piece alongside writers such as Shakespeare) that must now be pitifully pitched against the blood-thirsty uncaring and frankly garbage churning publishing industry.

I've done it myself.

In reality, it's a mental defence that needs breaking down - you need to be able to learn where your mistakes are, and take constructive criticism - let alone accept not everybody will have the same literary tastes so not everyone would wish to read it anyway.

When I go to events, I repeatedly find myself sat with name authors I've never read anything by, because it's not been something that tickled my interest. There are plenty of people who thought otherwise, hence why they are at the conventions.

But these are people who, while ready to fight for their own creative corner, were also mature-minded enough to realise when and where to make compromises. Not being precious with your MS is a good start!

2c.

 

[Jon Sprunk]

Exactly - I think learning a degree of maturity is absolutely essential if someone is serious about being published.

Unfortunately, it's too easy to fall into the "Shakespeare Trap" - essentially, the fact that you're able to write is amazing, you have therefore written something amazing, therefore your work is a piece of amazing art (in future generations will be remembered as a defining piece alongside writers such as Shakespeare) that must now be pitifully pitched against the blood-thirsty uncaring and frankly garbage churning publishing industry.

I've done it myself.

In reality, it's a mental defence that needs breaking down - you need to be able to learn where your mistakes are, and take constructive criticism - let alone accept not everybody will have the same literary tastes so not everyone would wish to read it anyway.

When I go to events, I repeatedly find myself sat with name authors I've never read anything by, because it's not been something that tickled my interest. There are plenty of people who thought otherwise, hence why they are at the conventions.

But these are people who, while ready to fight for their own creative corner, were also mature-minded enough to realise when and where to make compromises. Not being precious with your MS is a good start!

2c.

Excellent advice.

 

[Anne Lyle]

Anyone who thinks their manuscript can't be improved is basically saying they have nothing left to learn - and I don't think that's true of anyone who's still breathing!

OTOH you have to have faith in at least some aspects of your writing. As Holly Lisle says in her course on novel revision, choose which hill you are willing to die on - in other words, the heart of your story, without which it is not yours any more. Anything and everything else is up for negotiation

 

[Liz Bent]

Whereas for a self-published author, the only validation is positive reader reaction - and I feel awkward if I can't provide that.

Well, in my case, I actually find myself thinking that friends and relatives who have copies of my book and have read them, who have nice things to say about it, are saying these things to be nice and not because they actually like the book.

The best compliment I ever got was from someone who told me, "I forgot it was you that wrote it while I was reading it!" YES.

Even so, I'm not thrilled with my first self-published work (I'd like to revise it) and it is strange that a day after I post about it on these forums, a representative from the company tries to call me about marketing it. They can't seem to comprehend that I don't want to try to sell something with my name on it that I'm not 100% happy with.

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

They probably comprehend it perfectly well, but they want to change your mind.

I can always tell when relatives are just being nice because they always pay me the exact same compliment: You describe things so well.

What about the plot? What about the characters?

They don't read fantasy; it is most emphatically not the kind of reading they enjoy. But they feel a duty to read my books once they come out. I wish they wouldn't if they aren't going to love them.

A few reread them, and ask when the next one is coming out. With them I know they are telling me the truth when they say they love the books. But they talk about the characters, not the descriptions.

 

[Anne Lyle]

Ah, yes, I'm rather dreading my OH reading my WiP (I've told him he has to wait until it's finished and out on submission) - he likes Pratchett and Fforde but is not otherwise a reader of fantasy, so I have no idea what he will make of it. I expect, as Theresa said, he will like the descriptions (in this case, of Elizabethan England) but wonder why I couldn't have written a mainstream historical novel a la Sarah Dunant.

As for the rest of my family, I'm hoping to persuade them not to read it. I'm not at all sure how some of my more conventional rellies will take all the... gayness

 

[JenJen]

Read through this entire thread now and found it very enlightening. As a person pondering the self-publishing route, I need to know if it is something I should invest my time and energy in, or if I should go straight for the publishers instead. (which is what I intend to do at the Birmingham comic convention this year... Eeeek)

One question though!

Actually, my book is selling through Amazon (via Lulu) without an ISBN.

The only drawback is I can't identify myself as the author to Amazon to add product details.

I've always viewed the ability to get your work onto Amazon as a great achievement since it's available to a huge audience that way. (and I may be slightly addicted to Amazon myself. Hrm)

You said you were able to do it without an ISBN. How? (If you're willing to share )

 

[Anne Lyle]

Read through this entire thread now and found it very enlightening. As a person pondering the self-publishing route, I need to know if it is something I should invest my time and energy in, or if I should go straight for the publishers instead.)

I would advise always trying the conventional route first - you can always fall back on self-publishing if you find yourself with something that just doesn't fit the current market, but taking it in the opposite direction is much harder. It's also easier to judge your real level of skill/marketability by trying to get someone to invest money upfront for your work.

And if the big publishers don't bite, there are loads of small presses and e-publishers springing up that can give your book more credibility than going it alone.

If you're serious about writing, don't sell yourself short by taking the easy way out. As we like to say on this side of the Pond:

Come and have a go if you think you're hard enough!

 

[JenJen]

I would advise always trying the conventional route first - you can always fall back on self-publishing if you find yourself with something that just doesn't fit the current market, but taking it in the opposite direction is much harder. It's also easier to judge your real level of skill/marketability by trying to get someone to invest money upfront for your work.

I have been with a comic book publisher for a while and I had a contract with them for a graphic novel, but (looooong story cut short) some trouble arose within the company (not connected personally with me), drama ensued and the company didn't seem to manage.

Which has now left me without a publisher. Having experienced that, I was thinking about going at it alone, but have changed my mind now after reading up on it more. Instead, I'm going back to pitch to the 'big guys' first, and if they don't bite, I'll go to the small-press. Make self-publishing the last option.

...

I think.

Really can't make up my mind.

 

[Anne Lyle]

Sounds sensible - but then comics aren't my area of expertise. Certainly, strips work well online (enough to earn decent money through selling print compilations) but maybe not graphic novels. Still, you're looking at a tech-savvy demographic, so I guess you have more options than some other genres/formats.

 

[LukeW]

Read through this entire thread now and found it very enlightening. As a person pondering the self-publishing route, I need to know if it is something I should invest my time and energy in, or if I should go straight for the publishers instead.

Hi JenJen. Having tried the self-publishing route I would very seriously say that you should exhaust all options with traditional publishers before going this way.

When I self-published my novel (about the time I started this thread) I had the idea in my head that I could do everytihng a publishing house could do. To begin with things were going well, I managed to get some interest in my book and created a dedicated, if small, following. The problem is that the initial energy that I spent on promoting the book soon died off. Copies of my book sat in my cupboard and I wasn't doing the legwork. I went to work fulltime and my spare time was filled with family and other stuff. Now that I don't have the time or motivation to continue to promote my book everything has come to a virtual standstill.

The other problem with self-publsihing is that I never felt like I had truly completed the act of writing a novel. Yes I had written the piece and proofed it until my eyes were ready to fall out, but at the end of the day I still feel like I cheated at the last leg of a cross country race.

I would not go down the self-publishing road again.

The one positive point I did get from it was that it allowed people to read my book and gave me confidence that people were enjoying my writing. Occasionally I get random emails from complete strangers asking me when the next book is coming out. That's a good feeling but it only serves to remind me that I should have been more persistent when it came to approaching agents.

I've been a bit reluctant to post in this thread as the title makes me cringe everytime I read it. I'm not sure why I chose that heading but it sounds very arrogant (I think I was trying to be funny at the time but it's lame).

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

Thanks for the follow-up, though, Luke. I was thinking about asking how it all worked out. I'm sorry to hear that it didn't.

 

[LukeW]

No need to be sorry Teresa. I should have taken your advice in the first place and kept hitting up literary agents.

It's working out where to go from here that has me stumped. Should I try to contact agents even though the book has been previously self-published?

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

If you are going to be substantially revising it and very few people have seen it — and you've taken if off the market — there is some chance a publisher might be interested. Otherwise, start something new and use all the knowledge that you gained writing this one. You said you aren't satisfied with it any more. If you now recognize problems you couldn't see before, that means you have learned something.

But don't be in a hurry this time. Give it as much time as it takes. First novels usually go through numerous drafts before they are ready for publication. If you learn something from each draft, then it is never time wasted.

I just wish more people knew what kind of commitment they are taking on when they self-publish. It works for some people, who love doing the sales and marketing end and are good at it. But too many people go into it blindly, and that's unfortunate.

 

[Anne Lyle]

The one positive point I did get from it was that it allowed people to read my book and gave me confidence that people were enjoying my writing. Occasionally I get random emails from complete strangers asking me when the next book is coming out. That's a good feeling but it only serves to remind me that I should have been more persistent when it came to approaching agents.

Thanks for the follow-up, Luke. I would just add that you (and by that I mean writers in general, not you personally) don't need to self-publish to get positive feedback from readers. Join a writing group, online if you're shy or just want to reach a wider audience, and post snippets of your work. Some forums (e.g. Forward Motion) have whole sections that can only be viewed by registered members, so you can post your work in the knowledge that world+dog will not see it.

Alternatively, post something you have no intention of selling. I confess that I serialized a novella on fanfiction.net and got a huge buzz out of the regular feedback, although that was just an exercise to get me out of a writing slump - I wouldn't recommend it as a career move!

Also, I posted the first three chapters of my WiP on authonomy.com (which is actually world-viewable) about a year ago, and got over a hundred reviews (the vast majority of them very positive). I deleted it once I started revising, and in any case it was only 10% of the novel, so no worries about it being "published" (mind you, I wouldn't put my whole book up there, as some have).

More recently an online buddy has read my revisions - and judging by his clamouring for each new installment, I'm doing OK