Breaking someone's mind - suggestions please

[HareBrain]

Character A (yes, him again) needs B&C to start to doubt the reality of the world around them, so that they have a kind of breakdown, which A can then use to initiate them into the shamanic mysteries of the Otherworld.

He shares an isolated house with them, along with his confederates D&E, who could be used as part of the scheme. But what techniques might he use? He has access to a fair amount of money, and technology from about 1900-era. I was thinking that D could be an illusionist, of the Derren Brown type (though not as skilled). Character A might also be able to use suggestion to some extent, and possibly influence dreams, but this is all in backstory/flashback so I don't want illusions with complex set-ups or explanations.

I was thinking of things like: when B&C leave the house, changing the clocks so when they come back after five minutes an hour seems to have passed; having E walk behind a tree in full view of them and apparently never emerge; making B dream of a particularly unusual image or phrase that is then mentioned by D or E at breakfast; that kind of thing. Basic mind-bending weirdness.

Any other, or better, ideas? Any drugs (probably herbal) that might be useful to this process without being too dangerous?

Thanks for help, as always

 

[dustinzgirl]

Google 'natural hallucinogens' there are LOTS of stuff that will make someone hallucinate, you will find something that fits.

I don't think any of those things would really drive someone crazy, you know, they would just make life weird.

So I guess it depends on how far down the rabbit hole you want to go.

You could have mirror/light ghost shows, horrible phonograph sounds, animal blood all over someone's face that they ignore, light his bed on fire...you could even have him bring in a police officer or priest that the room mates paid off who also ignores all the strange stuff.

Lots of stuff you can do. Be mean. Mean is good.

 

[HareBrain]

Cheers Dusty, I'll do that. But I'm not sure how much he'd use hallucinogens as he wouldn't be able to control the effects. He doesn't want to cause a full-on mental breakdown. More a sense that the bedrock of reality under their feet is not as stable as they thought.

Since my first post I remembered something really weird that happened to me once. I was on a group holiday on a Turkish yacht. One morning we were moored in a bay with a few smaller boats. There were several of us on the rear deck. After an hour of lounging, I saw a rubber dinghy with an outboard leave the private yacht next to us, carrying a man who had a spaniel on a lead. The man beached the dinghy and led the spaniel into the trees.

I thought no more of it, until a few minutes later I noticed movement and the man came out of the trees, got in the dinghy and went back to the yacht - only this time the dog on the lead was a golden retriever!

It completely freaked me out. I could see no explanation for what had happened. Either I'd completely misremembered the breed of the first dog - effectively hallucinated it - or, or ... there was no "or" that I could see. Enough episodes like that, in fairly short succession, and I think my sense of the firmness of reality would start to give.

What had happened was that in between, I'd gone to the bathroom, and in that time the man had gone back to the yacht with the spaniel and taken the retriever out; but when I saw him with the retriever I completely forgot about the bathroom break, and the rest of the people there, quickly working out what had happened, made no attempt to put me right, the *******s. So that kind of thing would be quite easy to arrange.

 

[dreamhunter]

Oh yeah. I hear those kinds of herbs grow rather luxuriantly in the wild jungle areas of Afghanistan, Myanmar, Columbia etc.

 

[dreamhunter]

Speaking of ghosts, well, if you wanna hear this story ...

I've always prided myself on my skepticism towards ghost stories. Until one day, a few weeks after moving into our new office building ...

I stayed back later than the rest, one day, when the last two other colleagues went off, leaving me alone. Soon after, as I was finishing off my work, about 8 p.m., I heard an unfamiliar (to me) rythmic, repetitive sound, coming from the other side of the building ...

I went out, feeling quite fearless at first, to investigate. Went to the lab room opposite mine, opened the door to peek inside, and as soon as I did that, the sound stopped. Switched on the light, saw nothing, thought about going to inspect what could be on the other side of the bench, then thought better of it.

Thought nothing of it at first, then went back to my room. Then ... funnily ... I felt the hairs on my neck stand on end. I thought, WTH, I'm not staying, tidied up my table, then went down. Told the security guards about it before going off, but they asked me to go back up with them to re-investigate. So, me n two young guards went up again, saw nothing, then when we'd come down, one of them said, "the hairs on my neck stood on end too." Ha ha ...

Whotcha think?

 

[dustinzgirl]

Oh yeah. I hear those kinds of herbs grow rather luxuriantly in the wild jungle areas of Afghanistan, Myanmar, Columbia etc.

Your backyard and fields. They are not hard to find.

Also, LOL Hare, I bet they had a pretty good laugh at your mystical experience!

 

[dreamhunter]

If you're into them. Oh yeah.

 

[dreamhunter]

As I was waiting for the city bus to go home, I rang up my younger brother n told him about it. N he said, "Serves you right, for being so skeptical (of ghost stories) in the past. Maybe one of them is now keen to teach you a lesson."

So I stopped staying late at the office, for months after that, always making sure to leave by 7 p.m., at the latest. N I kept my decorative samurai sword, it was quite blunt actually, by my side every night as I slept. Like it would have been any good against a ghost, a friend said. LOL.

Then, one day, I heard exactly the same sound again, this time about 3 p.m., when everybody was still in the office. N I said, "this is the same sound that I heard that night!"

It was the water piping, righting itself from unequal pressures along the pipes. I think they call it the 'water hammer' effect. But it sounded rather different, when I heard it at night, for the first time, alone. Like someone was performing some kind of heavy, repetitive work.

Well, I guess that was my mystical experience then.

 

[The Judge]

Carbon monoxide poisoning. CO is odourless, colourless and non-irritating so is hard to detect, but it's very easy to produce. It can cause general confusion and emotional disturbances -- making someone easy prey to tricks -- as well as delirium and out and out hallucinations, depending on the concentration and the susceptibility of the sufferer. It's a leading contender for explaining haunted houses, because people see and hear odd things.

I think you might need some sort of hallucinogen acting here, because you have B&C together. It is harder to make people lose touch with reality if there are two of them, because they can discuss things, seek explanations for odd occurrences and generally reassure each other. Ideally, A, with the help of D&E, should try to isolate B&C, so that when B is experiencing weirdness, C cannot witness it. I think also, A,D&E might have to concentrate on one of them to the exclusion of the other. If both B&C are having odd moments, even if separate ones, they will still find a kind of strength together -- and they might be able to rationalise it as something concocted against them.

J

 

[dreamhunter]

CO? Hmmm. Can cause death too. By competing for dissolved oxygen in the blood (which it grabs, to form CO2) with the haemoglobin in your blood, thereby causing cellular-level asphyxia. Guys commit dozy, painless suicide with it, dont they?

All the more dangerous for its odourless, colourless nature.

 

[HareBrain]

On the basis of the posts so far (for which, thanks) I've decided that a combination of carbon monoxide and old plumbing would create the ultimate pseudo-paranormal nightmare. Shame this world predates gas central heating.

But Judge, after two minutes of research into CO, it seems a bit dangerous! Wouldn't it be difficult to regulate the exposure so the neurological effects happened but not the physical ones? (Assuming the neurological ones happen first.) I take the point about isolating B or C, but on the other hand, if two people both experience weirdness and neither can explain it, wouldn't that make its effect even stronger? I know from my youthful ghost-hunting expeditions how easy it is for hysteria to spread when confronted with the potentially paranormal.

Dusty - an outsider, expecially an authority figure, who's in cahoots with the deception, is a good idea. And you're right, mean is good. Oh yeah.

Dreamhunter - samurai swords work against anything, you'd have been fine.

BTW, I didn't interpret my experience on the yacht as mystical in any way, I just had the panicky feeling that either the world no longer made sense, or my senses had disconnected from reality. (Well, that might be putting it a bit strongly, but that's how I think I would have felt if more of that kind of stuff had happened.)

 

[The Judge]

On the basis of the posts so far (for which, thanks) I've decided that a combination of carbon monoxide and old plumbing would create the ultimate pseudo-paranormal nightmare. Shame this world predates gas central heating.

Doesn't matter if it predates it or not -- an isolated house wouldn't be connected to the mains even now! Anyway, CO can arrive via blocked flues in an ordinary fire, so no problems with arranging for it.

But Judge, after two minutes of research into CO, it seems a bit dangerous! Wouldn't it be difficult to regulate the exposure so the neurological effects happened but not the physical ones? (Assuming the neurological ones happen first.)

Being neither a chemist, nor a physician I haven't the faintest idea! But from my own researches, I don't see why it would be hard to do for someone who knew what he was doing. Assuming A and his cohorts aren't pressed for time, they can start gradually and adjust the concentration upwards if things aren't moving quickly enough or downwards if the physical side-effects become too pronounced. People can die, but that's not so likely if A and the others are on hand, watching. More likely are long term problems to health -- but I'm assuming that A isn't too bothered about that. And it gives you material for Book 3!

I take the point about isolating B or C, but on the other hand, if two people both experience weirdness and neither can explain it, wouldn't that make its effect even stronger? I know from my youthful ghost-hunting expeditions how easy it is for hysteria to spread when confronted with the potentially paranormal.

In a group, perhaps, when it's harder for one person to retain sanity against a mass outbreak. If there are only two people, then (without researching this at all, so I may be totally incorrect) I'd have thought it would be easier for a stronger willed person to keep the hysterical one grounded. Anyway, hysteria is temporary, isn't it? You surely want something that is a longer lasting?

BTW, I didn't interpret my experience on the yacht as mystical in any way, I just had the panicky feeling that either the world no longer made sense, or my senses had disconnected from reality.

But wouldn't most people have assumed they had (a) mis-remembered or (b) had too much to drink...

J

 

[fkatona]

HB,

I know exactly what you are talking about. A great example of this is a book called The Magus by John Fowles. Basically the "tormentor" used tactics like the dog-switching in your story to confuse the hell out of the main character. Here is a humorous review that gives you a brief overview, along with a comparison of mind games to timeshare presentations:

The Magus by John Fowles

 

[TheEndIsNigh]

Speaking of ghosts, well, if you wanna hear this story ...

I've always prided myself on my skepticism towards ghost stories. Until one day, a few weeks after moving into our new office building ...

I stayed back later than the rest, one day, when the last two other colleagues went off, leaving me alone. Soon after, as I was finishing off my work, about 8 p.m., I heard an unfamiliar (to me) rythmic, repetitive sound, coming from the other side of the building ...

I went out, feeling quite fearless at first, to investigate. Went to the lab room opposite mine, opened the door to peek inside, and as soon as I did that, the sound stopped. Switched on the light, saw nothing, thought about going to inspect what could be on the other side of the bench, then thought better of it.

Thought nothing of it at first, then went back to my room. Then ... funnily ... I felt the hairs on my neck stand on end. I thought, WTH, I'm not staying, tidied up my table, then went down. Told the security guards about it before going off, but they asked me to go back up with them to re-investigate. So, me n two young guards went up again, saw nothing, then when we'd come down, one of them said, "the hairs on my neck stood on end too." Ha ha ...

Whotcha think?

Sorry to disappoint but this is quite common.

Air conditioning fans and the like can easily produce beating noises when everything is constant, say in an unoccupied room. Because there's no one around, these small sounds become audible. When you open the door you change the air flows and the noise disappears. Even a single fan can rattle until the door is opened.

I used to work in an old mill and due to personal circumstances was often there till 2am testing equipment.

One night I was working when there an great thud right over my head. Didn't know what it was at first though later when I saw two eyes reflecting at me from out of a crack in the wall. I realised it was the heaviest rat in the world landing on the floor above.

The trouble was I was more worried about the rat than the possibility of ghostly company.

 

[Sparrow]

Why not try a completely different tact... if characters "B&C" are meant to go slightly mad then why not have character "A" force them to listen to an entire Sting album?.. or perhaps this is too cruel.

Seriously though, you wouldn't need to go to any great lengths to help push someone over the edge. Deprive a person of rem sleep long enough and we all break down in time... methamphetamine is certainly one readily available agent that would do the trick.

If characters "B&C" are both male than why not place a woman in between them?.. character "A" could cause their demise by playing one against the other. Let's face it, women have probably caused more of us to doubt reality than anything else imaginable.

 

[Interference]

Character A (yes, him again) needs B&C to start to doubt the reality of the world around them, so that they have a kind of breakdown, which A can then use to initiate them into the shamanic mysteries of the Otherworld.

Mmmm'kaaay. And who are the bad-guys in this little epistle?

 

[con]

eh round that time there was powder used in england to drive insane but that quite stupid they didnt know bout it then.eh malnourishement and isolation.or is it meant to be a harmful and tortous thing?if not then drugs whatever the equivilant of acid back then.possibly play them of on one another.treat them like they losing minds tell them something happened didnt happen

 

[con]

sleep deprevation

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

He could slip them some opium in their food. It was widely available. The hallucinations produced could be pleasant or unpleasant, depending on the individual reaction, but if they didn't know their perceptions were drug-induced they might well become confused about what was real and what was not.

DeQuincey, in his Confessions of an Opium Eater describes some very bizarre visions.

 

[HareBrain]

But wouldn't most people have assumed they had (a) mis-remembered or (b) had too much to drink...

Too much to drink? In the morning? I don't know what kind of holidays you take (though I am now in a better position to guess).

Mis-remembering wasn't a real possibility as I had such a strong mental-visual image of the spaniel jumping out of the dinghy, along with the thought that it looked like a dog I knew. So if I'd been forced to conclude I'd mis-remembered, it would have been quite serious, as though my memory had been overwritten by a hallucination. Without the association with another dog, you might be right - something I'll bear in mind for this thing.

I know exactly what you are talking about. A great example of this is a book called The Magus by John Fowles. Basically the "tormentor" used tactics like the dog-switching in your story to confuse the hell out of the main character.

Thank you!!! When I was first posing the question it bugged me that the situation might be reminding me of something I'd read, and when I wrote about the dog-switching, it got stronger. The Magus, of course. Trouble is, it's been 20 years since I read it, and I can now remember hardly anything about it. Maybe a re-read is in order, but for half a page of back-story, hmm, I dunno ...

Mmmm'kaaay. And who are the bad-guys in this little epistle?

G, X and #


Thanks everyone for suggestions so far. Tricks plus sleep-deprivation is probably the way to go, possibly with some plant extracts for added effect.