Celtic/Irish fairy tales

[snip]I just happen to have Chadwick's book, which is dated, no question, given the recent digs in Britain, Ireland and elsewhere. But my understanding is, and this appears even in those reviews, that it is a seminal work on Celtic history and anthropology, and cannot be dismissed casually just because it is almost forty years old. [snip] Its more up to date successors may be more accurate, but might be less readable. I hate, I hate, I hate dry history (and this is from a graduate in History).
[snip].

Thanks for the heads-up, Clansman. The book is on my "to-purchase" list for February. (PS, just btw, I have some kilt-wearers in the family myself... :p )


@Teresa Edgerton
Why, I ask myself, is my entire bookshelf suddenly online ...

Um, perhaps a hint that you should purchase something released in the current century? :rolleyes: Have you already got the Carol Rose encyclopedia? If not, when mine arrives, I shall post some images of the illustrations therein, just to turn you a little green... :D


Ha ha - just teasing a little. Thanks for the latest link.. I see that I've managed to get hold of just the person one needs when doing some fairy research.

To be honest, after downloading all those fairy books, I am eating sleeping, drinking fairies faieries faeries fey feyries.... :eek:


@Gollum
P.S Do what I do following any buying spree. Wear a very thick pair of dark glasses when retrieving your CC account and think of England or maybe Faerie in this case....This community announcement was brought to you by Chrons, your home away from home where wealth and poverty are just alternate states of mind.

I'll send you the bill, Gollum. The Chrons staff and moderators can all pitch in...
Nah, I've always been a bit of a book spender. Since I don't drink or smoke, or have similar recreational expenditures, books and PC games are my personal little guilty pleasures. And why not. ;)
 
Actually, despite the avatar, I'm more interested in fairy tales than fairies.

As for being au courant with the twenty-first century, I'm only just coming to terms with the twentieth. However ... I have remembered two books, purchased since the turn of the millennium as a matter of fact, which might be of interest if you are willing to extend your interest beyond the Celtic fairy traditions. Two lovely books, sumptuously illustrated, bringing together fairy folklore from around the world.

The Great Encyclopedia of Fairies

and

The Complete Encyclopedia of Elves, Goblins, and Other Little Creatures

both written by Pierre Dubois, and illustrated by Claudine and Roland Sabatier. Available through Amazon I am sure.


I shall have to look into the book by Carol Rose. It does sound interesting.
 
Teresa, I'll give you feedback on the Carol Rose. I should have it in about a week's time. I'm starting to wonder if starting this thread where it is, was a wise idea, and if I should not rather have started a Fey Folk thread in a more "busy" forum/board. What do you think?

Thanks for the latest recs. Will put them on the "investigation" list, thanx!
 
This has been a truly excellent thread on the bibliography of Celtic myth sources generally. Thank you, Moontravler, for starting it. Some good brains have been well and truly picked herein, and I myself will be revisiting it regularly.
 
I'm starting to wonder if starting this thread where it is, was a wise idea, and if I should not rather have started a Fey Folk thread in a more "busy" forum/board.

Yes, either Gollum or I should have noticed long before this: The thread is in the wrong place. Book Search is for asking about specific books, the ones we've already read a long time ago, want to read again, but can't remember the author or the title.

I'll move it.

Edit -- Thread moved to General Book Discussion.

Oops, caught myself moderating when I'm on vacation.
 
Thank you for your help and your kind words, Clansman.

And of course your help as well, Teresa. :)

Oops, caught myself moderating when I'm on vacation.

It must come naturally... ;) (You're just so naturally helpful, see?)
 
Hey, my pleasure. Good ideas and good works deserve kudos. Kudos to you for the thread idea, and to TE and Gollum for all of the wonderful stuff they shared. Certainly is a topic right up my alley, and it has provide me with lots of room for exploration.:)
 
I was going to recommend the Michael Scott book which I thought was rather good.

Katharine Briggs is a great source on fairy lore.

Andrew Lang's Fairy Books are a great compendium of fairy lore too.

For a good look at Celtic myth of the Welsh variety, The Mabinogion is a great read. I have the Fantasy Masterworks edition , which is Evangeline Walton's translation. Perhaps Teresa can offer some insight on which translation is best?

Not really classic fairy lore, I suppose, but I like Brian Froud's fairy (or Faery) books.
 
Some good recommendations Knivesout and sorry Teresa, I should have realised this thread belonged out here...:)
 
Well, we were both inattentive, G.

As for the Mabinogion, JP, Evangeline Walton's books are retellings, not translations. She didn't take many liberties and when she did it was to good effect, but turning them into novels required some imaginative leaps and she took them.

As for real translations, I have four different ones -- somewhere. I bought them because they each have a different way of approaching the material which I found useful to contemplate (and sometimes amusing) because I was writing Celtic-type fantasy at the time and I wanted to add something of the flavor of the language. Since I do not read either medieval or modern Welsh I needed all of the help I could get. I like to think I pulled it off, but, well, I digress.

Lady Charlotte Guest's translation is considered the worst, because, although beautiful in its language, as a proper Victorian lady she just couldn't bring herself to include all of the "improper" parts without at least tampering with them. But you can get it with lovely color illustrations by Alan Lee (the same Alan Lee who had much to do with the art design of the LOTR movies), so that's a point in its favor.

The translation by Gwyn Jones and Thomas Jones (first published 1948) is pretty much regarded as the classic version. I do love it. The language is more modern than Lady Charlotte and easier to read but still has a nice archaic flavor. The Jeffrey Gantz translation is also good. Moving further away from the archaic language, it is probably more accessible to some readers, but I prefer Jones and Jones as a matter of personal taste. But it's even older than I am, so of course I would. Both translations usually include, along with the four tales of the Mabinogion proper, the four native tales and the three romances that are generally associated with it but not really part of it. (Worthy additions, none the less.)

The Patrick Ford translation is, I think, very literal. You lose some of the poetry, and the language is so terse in places, when the male characters speak they always sound like John Wayne to me. (I did say that I found some of the translations amusing.) It only has two of the native tales, but it does have -- which the others don't -- The Tale of Gwion Bach and the Tale of Taliesin*, and also the poem Cad Goddeu, "The Battle of the Trees", which is attributed to Taliesin. For those additions alone, I was thrilled to find a copy. I think this is the hardest one to find.

There may be other translations hanging somewhere about, but these are the ones that I have and know about it.

I do agree about "Smith of Wooton Major." I was disappointed the first time I read it, probably because I was looking for something more like LOTR, or at least Farmer Giles, but it has grown on me over the years.


*Basically different parts of the same story, since Gwion becomes Taliesen after, um, his other adventures.
 
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Thanks a lot, Teresa. I should have known Walton's work was an adaptation rather than a translation; that was very inattentive of me. I'd heard that the Lady Guest version was considerably bowdlerised, although what I've sampled of it online had an attractive style. Jones & Jones sounds like the best bet.

Off topic: Have you read The Coming Of The King by Nikolai Tolstoy? It was to be the first volume of a trilogy about Merlin, but the author never carried on. It was full of fascinating elements from Celtic myth, right down to the narrator (Merlin, of course) spending some time as a salmon, if I remember correctly. A strange mix of historical realism and mythic re-creation.
 
Have you read The Coming Of The King by Nikolai Tolstoy?

No, but from your description it sounds like I should.

Jones & Jones sounds like the best bet.

Yes, I would say so, but if you can find the Taliesen stories somewhere you might want to read them. They have more of a mythic quality than the other tales.

Oh, and speaking of Taliesen, his story is included in Thomas Love Peacock's novel The Misfortunes of Elphin. I keep meaning to read that one, because I love Peacock, but I haven't so far.
 
Off topic: Have you read The Coming Of The King by Nikolai Tolstoy? It was to be the first volume of a trilogy about Merlin, but the author never carried on. It was full of fascinating elements from Celtic myth, right down to the narrator (Merlin, of course) spending some time as a salmon, if I remember correctly. A strange mix of historical realism and mythic re-creation.
Thanks for bringing this to the notice of the forum. An interesting side note is that Nikolai is also the stepson of writer Patrick O'Brien and a controversial (in a positive sense) historian by all accounts. I'll try to source a copy of this.

My particular interest however, is in the more recent NYRB short story collection I'm reading by another of the famous Tolstoy clan in Tatyana Tolstaya, described as a gathering of twisted contemporary fairy tales (not my words... ) which is proving to be quite excellent. I think they're cousins.
 
And now that we are off on this Mabinogion tangent, a memory surfaces, and I recall that the stories in the four branches of the Mabinogion have a heavy Irish influence, and that some of the characters do appear, under only slightly different names, among the old Irish gods, the Tuatha de Danann, who eventually dwindled, as mythic figures often do, into the fairies of Irish legend.

Which brings us back to the books that Gollum mentioned at the beginning! Your recommendations were spot-on all along, Mr. G.

If I hadn't been so eager to chime in with my own recommendations, I would have remembered this.
 
Well, I think it's fair to say this thread has proven to be quite educational irrespective of the direction it has taken.

Staying for a moment with Walton's marvelous Mabnigonion stories, I don't suppose you could regale us with a memory of Evangeline Walton, the author? Sorry if I'm putting you on the spot....
 
Yes, I would say so, but if you can find the Taliesen stories somewhere you might want to read them. They have more of a mythic quality than the other tales.

Oh, and speaking of Taliesen, his story is included in Thomas Love Peacock's novel The Misfortunes of Elphin. I keep meaning to read that one, because I love Peacock, but I haven't so far.

Tolstoy's novel also incorporates elements of the legends about Taliesin. It's a pity the series will seemingly never be completed.
 
I only spent one convention weekend getting to know her, and then met her, briefly, again at another convention, Gollum. So I don't know if I have anything more to add to what I've said before, but I'm happy to repeat that.

She was very old and apparently quite feeble when I met her, and yet she travelled alone to conventions all over the US. Her skin was a faintly bluish grey because of a medical treatment she had as a child or a young woman that left it permanently discolored. The first time I saw her (not the time I met her) was at Mythcon, and I didn't know who she was. I thought the color was face paint and part of the costume she was wearing. I remember that after I had dinner with her at the convention in Oregon, a friend came up and said something along the lines of, "Er, uh, just what nationality is Evangeline?" Undoubtedly people stared and wondered about her wherever she went, but neither that, nor age, nor ill-health stopped her. She went where she wanted to go.

Over dinner she kept mentioning her cat, which we eventually gathered was a stuffed toy. It seemed to have a lot of personality, nevertheless.

Her conversation tended to be rambling, and it took a long time for her to get to the point, but when she got there it turned out to be a good one and entirely relevant to the subject at hand. I was on a panel with her at that convention, with a lot of young female fantasy writers just breaking in (I was fairly new, too, although not one of the young ones). I have always believed that her retellings of the Mabinogion (published by Ballantine at the beginning of the fantasy boom) had almost as much influence over the fantasy genre as it developed in the US as Tolkien's work did, but it was a quieter influence, and I don't think that everyone who felt that influence at second or third hand recognized where it came from. She certainly provided the inspiration for the Celtic fantasy that was so popular for a long time, and I think, if nothing else, she paved the way for a lot of female fantasy writers that followed her. But the young women on that panel -- some of whom seemed quite full of themselves -- only saw an eccentric old lady who rambled on and on, and they showed their impatience quite visibly while waiting for her to come around to whatever insight she would eventually offer -- so impatient, I don't think that they were paying attention by the time she got there. They talked over her; they condescended to her. Knowing who she was, and the influence her books had on me, I was thrilled to be on a panel with her, although that was largely spoiled by my annoyance with the other women. I was the only one on the panel listening to her and asking her questions, but I am sure that some of the people in the audience must have known who she was, and some of them might have come to the panel just to see her. They were probably as annoyed as I was.

But her vision wasn't good, and she needed help finding her way around the hotel and locating elevators, so my friend and I stepped in, and that was how I came to spend most of that day with the woman I consider the great ancestral mother of female fantasy novelists. I wonder if the other women on that panel ever realized their mistake.

I think it was later, when I saw her in Arizona, that she told me the story about drowning a lot of her characters when she was younger because she was so soft-hearted and she believed it was a fairly comfortable way to die. Being similarly soft-hearted (although I exploded characters rather than drowning them), I liked that story.
 
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