Who is Tom Bombadil

Omphalos: Sorry about that. Was just toddling off to bed when I saw the post, and was already nodding at the time. Will give you a better response when I get back from work, if I have the chance....
 
In the end, I think Tom is meant to remain an enigma, of a particularly cryptic kind; one not meant to be solved lest he be resolved into something simplistic when his nature (and, apparently, history) is actually quite complex.

Well, that argument is probably supported by Tolkien himself:

'And even in a mythical Age there must be some enigmas, as there always are. Tom Bombadil is one (intentionally).'
- The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien

Keeping that in mind, I don't think his being a Vala is necessarily something that Tolkien would mention. Also, both Tom and the Valar are known to have many names in the different languages (Elvish, Dwarvish, Man-ish(?)), so it is possible that Tom is a Vala, except his 'Vala' name is something else.

There's an excellent artice - Encyclopedia of Arda: Tom Bombadil - on this extensive Tolkien-related website that examines some of the more popular theories (including the Vala) and give some arguments for and against them. It doesn't really come with a conclusion of its own, it's just an analysis. Quite interesting.

Read it.
 
EDIT: This is in response to Omphalos' post above... apparently the post just preceding mine was being made at the same time I was entering that below....

Okay -- let's see if I can answer this properly. Not because I expect to change your mind on this -- or am even interested in doing so, really; but because of simple interest in the subject and a chance to, in writing about them, clarify some of this in my own mind as well as possibly putting something out there of interest to others.

Taking the last question first: On a strictly literal reading, difficult though not impossible to explain. However, any figure, whether it be a character, landscape, etc., can and often does work on many levels simultaneously. In the case of Bombadil, I see him as such a personification or embodiment in a very substantial, if symbolic, way. I am not talking allegory here, as Tolkien's distaste for that is well known. But he certainly didn't object to the symbolic importance of things in his tales; if anything he was somewhat prone to celebrate them -- fittingly so, for someone with his religious leanings. Tom, if you will, is the "spirit" of Middle-earth wearing a human face. By his long existence -- apparently since the very beginning of Middle-earth, and totally unrelated to any of the actual races inhabiting it -- he, in a very real sense, embodies that side of existence which humans (and other sapient species) tend to ignore or fail to see; Nature outside of our own concerns, as it were. Yet being a conscious and intelligent being, he is, too, aware of the part of men, dwarves, elves, etc., in the long history of Middle-earth, and this, too, is reflected in his ponderings and statements here and there. But by his rather aloof, removed aspect, he (symbolically) puts these things in perspective... much as later, in the tower of Cirith Ungol, Sam has something of an epiphany of how even the Shadow is a very small thing in the overarching tale of years.

So, to me, Tom both embodies that spirit and yet is both contemporary and ancient. And, as I said, by the little touches with Tom, both the hobbits (and the reader) get some glimpse, accompanied with a sort of frisson of dim recognition, of those who have gone before, yet whose stories are also a part of their own.

Therefore, I would argue that Tom fulfills several different purposes, and his presence in the story brings many things out which otherwise would have been lost; things which enrich the story by adding to that experience of historical depth and emotional connection to that history; foreshadowing various connections which become explicit later in the narrative, allowing attentive readers that pleasurable recognition of the fulfillment of a pattern; he serves to render much that would otherwise be alien or difficult to get across in any emotional context something we can connect with and feel as part of the flow of the life of this place we are in; he himself is such an odd enigma that it adds to the layers of complexity of Middle-earth (not reducing it, as you seemed to indicate earlier) -- after all, Tom is very much a riddle which cannot be solved (or, if you don't mind the pun, read) because some things simply are beyond our grasp, and always will be. We can speculate, we can wonder, but we quite likely will never have the true answer. I think Tolkien intended him to have that dimension, too.

As for his being "unfallen"... Tom remains as he always has been. He is not affected by what has gone before because of his basic nature. And Middle-earth itself is not "fallen", though it has been darkened and bruised, both by Melkor and then by Sauron. It is imperfect rather than the perfect vision of the original theme of the Ainur, but it is far from being "fallen" in the usual sense. Tom, if you will, is a bit of that which has not fallen; as such, he simply has no interest in these burning issues because they have no relevance to him and what he is. In this way, he is a glimpse (but a glimpse only) of what it means to be "unfallen"; and that, too, has its resonance with many of Tolkien's concerns.

At any rate, these are a few random thoughts of my own on why Tom does belong in the tale. He is a difficult little conundrum, and certainly not going to be to everyone's taste; but I find him an oddly fascinating figure because he is such a complex, yet simple, enigma... simple in manner, but not necessarily in matter, as it were.

I hope I have been coherent here... I'm bushed after a long day, and I'm none too certain I have been. But I hope I have gotten across some of what I see there, and that it proves of interest at least for purposes of discussion or debate. And, if I have failed to address any points from the above, chalk it up to sheer exhaustion at this juncture....:eek:
 
And even in a mythical Age there must be some enigmas, as there always are. Tom Bombadil is one (intentionally).'
- The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien
Now where have we heard this previously in this thread?;)

I think the wax came later, Om, but I get your point; there are a few meals in those pages, and if one were to take them as unconnected events, that one might have good reason to yawn. The meals taken during the In the House of Tom Bombadil chapter, however, serve to punctuate the simple setting of a story teller and avid listeners nestled in between, and allow Tolkien to both foreshadow (as noted previously by others) and transition the hobbits gradually away from the comfortable familiarity of The Shire and out into the stranger, less hospitable wider world.

Bombadil a maiar? Certainly seems reasonable. Aule? Definitely not (Aule "the maker" doesn't match up well with Bombadil "the knower").
 
I don't think he's simply a Maiar, mainly because he is apparently much, much older than any, and also because (in his own way) he seems more powerful. Also, the key thing here is that he is not affected by the Ring, while other Maiar - Gandalf, Saruman, Sauron - are (or would be).

Aule was the maker, yes, but he had many similarities with Tom, as mentioned in the article I referenced in my original post. Here are some passages (edited):

... Aule delighted in making, not possessing, and "he did not envy the works of others, but sought and gave counsel."
... Like Aule, Tom is not possessive. Although his power to dominate and control is always stressed - he is the master - he does not interfere with other beings except when they directly interfere with him...
... This distain for ownership or possession is the reason why Tom is able to handle the ring without fear. Ultimately, all other powerful beings encountered in the trilogy, unless they are already fallen, are afraid to touch the ring lest the desire to possess it should turn them to evil. Since Tom does not want to own or possess anything, it has no power over him.

Here's another passage, reproduced in its entirety:

It is also important to note the tremendous power and control that Tom has over the ring. He is, first of all, able to overcome its normal effects. When he puts it on his finger, he does not become invisible. When Frodo puts it on his finger, Tom is still able to see Frodo: he is "not as blind as that yet" (Ibid.). Second, Tom is able with ease to use the ring in ways that were not intended by its maker, for he is able to make the ring itself disappear. (It is possible that Sauron himself might be unable to do this, for the ring embodied a great part of Sauron's own power, drained from him during its making.) Such power over the ring, displayed almost as a parlor trick, I submit, cannot be accounted for by classifying Tom Bombadil as an anomalous nature spirit. The ability to dominate the ring suggests a Vala; the ease with which it is dominated suggests the ultimate maker of all things in Middle-earth, Aule the Smith, of whom both Sauron and Saruman were mere servants in the beginning before time.

The entire article can be found here: Who is Tom Bombadil?
 
As for the control and power over the ring, see the discourse in The Council of Elrond, not to mention the first passage you quoted above. It's NOT that he has power/control over the ring; rather, that it has no power over him. He has no ability to destroy it, and I've always read the brief disappearance as merely sleight of hand. Further, what makes you say that he's much, much older than any Maiar? Check the references on Olorin, for example, consider and compare.
 
Grim said:
...I've always read the brief disappearance as merely sleight of hand.

And me - if he could make the Ring disappear (Just like that. Uhuh. :p ), all the arguments about him not being suitable to keep it from Sauron make no sense.
 
* Imagines a table gradually becoming covered in Rings. *



Not a happy thought.
 
Hmmm.... You guys are really not reading the articles I'm linking to, huh? Maybe I should stop. Or maybe... I should link to them more! http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/t/tombombadil.html and http://www.cas.unt.edu/~hargrove/bombadil.html.

As for the control and power over the ring, see the discourse in The Council of Elrond, not to mention the first passage you quoted above. It's NOT that he has power/control over the ring; rather, that it has no power over him. He has no ability to destroy it, and I've always read the brief disappearance as merely sleight of hand. Further, what makes you say that he's much, much older than any Maiar? Check the references on Olorin, for example, consider and compare.
I know he can't destroy it; but the disappearance seems a little more significant than sleight of hand to me.

Tom is most definitely not a Maiar. As I said, even Saruman and Gandalf (and of course Sauron) are all powerful Maiar, and they clearly would be affected by the Ring. Tom would be too, if he was a Maiar; since it has no effect on him, we can safely conclude that he is probably more powerful than (or, at the least, very different from) a Maiar. As for his age... Tom?

'Eldest, that's what I am... Tom remembers the first raindrop and the first acorn... He knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless - before the Dark Lord came from Outside.'

Now, an argument can be made that the Dark Lord referenced is Sauron. The writers of the article argue (and it makes sense) that it is more likely that he meant Melkor/Morgoth, because "[before the Dark Lord came from Outside] is referring to an event of cosmic significance, and a specific point in the World's history, which isn't the case with Sauron". Since Melkor, Manwë and Varda were the first of the Valar to enter Arda, and if Tom was somehow there before them, he is much older than the Maiar. (Of course, since Melkor et al. were the first Vala to enter, this also means Tom cannot be a Vala.)

Also, in one of the last chapters of the book, instead of returning to the Shire with the Hobbits, Gandalf heads towards Tom's house, and says, "I am going to have a long talk with Bombadil: such a talk as I have not had in all my time. He is a moss-gatherer, and I have been a stone doomed to rolling. But my rolling days are ending, and now we shall have much to say to one another." If a mighty Maiar like Olorin considers himself to be just a rolling stone relative to Tom, clearly then Tom must be someone much more significant than a Maiar.

And me - if he could make the Ring disappear (Just like that. Uhuh. :p ), all the arguments about him not being suitable to keep it from Sauron make no sense.

Pyan, the reason that Tom is unsuitable as a Ring-bearer is not connected with any power he may or may not have. He is unsuitable because he is someone who is not concerned with the going-ons of Middle-Earth; he's sort of lost in his own world. In the Council of Elrond, Gandalf says something about how Tom is unlikely to realise the importance of the Ring (since to him it is just a ring), and would most likely just misplace or lose it. The fact that he can make the Ring disappear doesn't change that.
 
Hmmm.... You guys are really not reading the articles I'm linking to, huh? Maybe I should stop. Or maybe... I should link to them more! http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/t/tombombadil.html and [URL="http://www.cas.unt.edu/~hargrove/bombadil.html."]http://www.cas.unt.edu/~hargrove/bombadil.html.[/URL]


Well... I'll admit I've not read the entire article in any case so far; though it isn't from lack of interest, but lack of time... something I'd like to repair on my next day off from work (Monday, if they don't play "musical schedules" with me again:rolleyes:). So, for my part, by all means keep 'em coming; I'm always interested in seeing others' thoughts about such things....
 
I'm sticking with "Father Nature", or perhaps the referenced "Spirit of Nature". While I hadn't seen all of these links previously, I'd seen their like, DA. Bombadil by design (because Tolkien didn't write anything haphazardly) defies categorization as anything else, as amply demonstrated in the books (and your links!). I still think it's reasonable for him to be Maia, too (who's to say that ALL of the Maia are subject to the influence of the ring, just because Sauron, Gandalf and Saruman were? Maybe other Maia who sang in other parts of the song than those of Manwe and Melkor are exactly as Bombadil is described; unaffected by, and unable to affect the ring.

Having said that, must commend you on the thought-provoking thread. Even if it's not the first time someone's broached the question, it was a good spin thru the different books.
 
I'm sticking with "Father Nature", or perhaps the referenced "Spirit of Nature". While I hadn't seen all of these links previously, I'd seen their like, DA. Bombadil by design (because Tolkien didn't write anything haphazardly) defies categorization as anything else, as amply demonstrated in the books (and your links!). I still think it's reasonable for him to be Maia, too (who's to say that ALL of the Maia are subject to the influence of the ring, just because Sauron, Gandalf and Saruman were? Maybe other Maia who sang in other parts of the song than those of Manwe and Melkor are exactly as Bombadil is described; unaffected by, and unable to affect the ring.
Well, I would assume that Sauron is probably the most powerful Maia, so if he is affected... Also, the age thing.

Personally, I don't think he is Maia, or Vala, or Eru, or a nature spirit, or anything else. He is, as you suggested, an anomaly and an enigma, because that's the way Tolkien wanted it. Frankly, I think the articles that tried to 'figure out' what Tom is, just got it wrong. You can't figure out what he is, because there is nothing to figure out. Tom Bombadil is just Tom Bombadil, and that's that. If he was Aule or a Vala or any other category of established being, then surely Tolkien, at some point, would've said so.

Having said that, must commend you on the thought-provoking thread. Even if it's not the first time someone's broached the question, it was a good spin thru the different books.
Why, thank you. As I said above, I kind of already had my own thoughts on it, I was just interested to hear what others had to say (particularly since a lot of you seem to know tonnes more about fantasy than I do), figuring that there are elements that had eluded me. So thanks to all who commented, particularly yourself and J. D. Worthington (he of the over 10k posts(!!)) for your take.
 
Ooops, somehow double posted! See below.
 
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You betcha'.:)

As an interesting side point (and if folks are willing to tolerate any more of my thoughts on the subject:eek:), where Sauron's might among the Maiar is concerned, I suspect that Gandalf and Saruman were susceptible to the ring because they had assumed mortal form, and because the will of the ring was augmented and sourced by the power of the spell held over the Nine, Seven and Three. This spell took the better part of Sauron's power, and much like the Two Trees created by Yavanna or the making of the Silmarils by Feanor, could not be repeated. Taken as spirit against spirit, perhaps the outcome is different. For cases in point, consider Ossë, or even Melian and Arien; as much as one can compare apples and oranges, I'm skeptical that Sauron stands up well to any of these. Sauron was mighty as a maker after the fashion of the people of Aule, but if you consider him in terms of contest of wills, or physical combat, or mystical prowess, one has to wonder.

Finrod, a prominent Noldo exile from Valinor, gave him a good contest in the battle of wills expressed through song despite being hampered by the Curse/Doom of Mandos; how much stronger then is Melian, whose defenses kept ALL of Morgoth's servants out of Doriath until Thingol's death? Heck, even Aragorn was sufficient to wrest the palantir away from Sauron's control.

Eönwë, Manwe's herald, whose "might in arms is surpassed by none in Arda", would surely figure higher. Sauron was nowhere to be found during the breaking of the Thangorodrim, and he even submitted to captivity because he and his armies couldn't contest the might of Ar-Pharazon and Numenor at its martial zenith. Nor could he best Huan ages earlier.

In terms of mystical prowess, Luthien was able to get the upper hand on him long enough to give Huan his opening. Along with the rest of Morgoth's servants, Sauron would not contest Arien, guardian and steward of the Sun. I suggest that Gandalf in spirit form (Olorin, wisest of the Maiar) is more than equal to Sauron when you take the ring out of Sauron's possession. Ossë, of course, only has power in his domain, but one gets the impression that even Ulmo has difficulty controlling Ossë at times; Sauron (again, were such a scenario to have a reason for occurring) is out of the question.

Apples and oranges, to be sure, but enough to see that Sauron's "might' is only applicable in certain contexts; otherwise, he's merely good at making things and persuasion!
 
Am I the only one to wonder if the Old Forest is also where the Ent-Wives went to?
 
Grimward said:
because Tolkien didn't write anything haphazardly

But he did. There is a lot in the early drafts of LOTR that Tolkien wrote without any idea of where it was going to take him.

It's the nature of first drafts that not all of the pieces belong, and sometimes things stay simply because a writer has become attached to them and decides to find a way to make them work. Inevitably some readers will think those are the best parts of the story(maybe because they strike the same chord for those readers as they do for the writer) while others will sense the uneasy fit. I think both reactions are valid.

In the case of LOTR, Tom Bombadil just wandered in from some earlier stories (because he was a character already invented, as Tolkien admitted himself), and since, once he had arrived, somehow he felt right there he was allowed to stay. His continued presence was not an accident, but his entrance most certainly was haphazard. If, in Tom's absence, Tolkien had eventually decided that whatever Tom represents was missing (and as this thread makes evident, what that something was is never made entirely clear, even in Tolkien's letters), another character could have been invented to fit that role -- and perhaps one whose purpose was a good deal clearer and more skillfully integrated into the story. Or perhaps not. Maybe what Tom represents would have gone forever lacking. Would we have noticed? I sincerely doubt it.

I have mixed emotions about Tom, myself. I could well do without him and his songs, Old Man Willow doesn't do much for me either, but I'm very glad we didn't miss out on the Barrow Downs.
 
(because Tolkien didn't write anything haphazardly)

But he did. There is a lot in the early drafts of LOTR that Tolkien wrote without any idea of where it was going to take him.

Agreed, Teresa.

But I think that what Grimward meant (as I did when I first mentioned content), was that the LotR, when published, didn't contain anything that was haphazardly left in it.
 
In the case of LOTR, Tom Bombadil just wandered in from some earlier stories (because he was a character already invented, as Tolkien admitted himself), and since, once he had arrived, somehow he felt right there he was allowed to stay.
There seems to be a letter from Tolkien (one that predates LotR) that supports that:

'Do you think Tom Bombadil, the spirit of the (vanishing) Oxford and Berkshire countryside, could be made into the hero of a story?'

Of course, that letter would also support the theory that Tom was, in essence, a manifestation of Nature itself; pure, untainted, incapable of corruption or manipulation (hence the Ring has no power over him), old enough to effectively be ageless, and beyond the influence of even the considerable powers of Valar, etc.

Or maybe he's just an old, bouncing fool who sings cheesy songs and freed the hobbits from the Old Forest by boring the trees into a stupor with his words.

Am I the only one to wonder if the Old Forest is also where the Ent-Wives went to?
I admit, that thought had occurred to me back when I read the books a few years ago. But I don't think that's it.

It's been a while since I read LotR so maybe I'm remembering incorrectly, but I seem to recall Pippin/Merry asking Treebeard about the Old Forest (understandable, considering they're both really old and somehow 'alive' trees) and Treebeard was somewhat critical (maybe even disdainful?) of Old Man Willow and the rest. If that 'disapproval' of the Old Forest is common among the Ents (and not unique to Treebeard), then I don't see why the Ent-wives would choose to go there.
 
The Entwives loved gardens and orchards, not forests. Treebeard seemed to think they would be drawn to a place like the Shire.

I think Tolkien's sympathies would be more with the Ents and unspoiled nature, than with the Entwives.

(Although somebody has to grow the tobacco, so somebody has to cultivate the soil.)
 

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