Help with a plot problem!

[Blackrook]

Another problem I see with your story is that readers will assume the Lady is your world's equivalent to the Virgin Mary and will wonder why the hero wants to kill her or seduce her. It doesn't seem appropriate to do either.

 

[Toby Frost]

Morally speaking I don't have a problem with this. Granted, I'm not religious, but writers have a right to offend people - and this is a make-believe world after all.

You seem to have constructed the perfect security system and tried to find a way into it, but I really feel this would be better approached from the other way around. If we are going to follow the hero through this scene - ie it's his point of view - we don't have to know every detail. We need only know enough to make the system look very tight. This probably sounds as if I'm advocating that you create a gaping plot hole, but I'm not. You don't need a working spaceship for an SF film to look convincing, just a good set. Besides, if a reliable character tells the hero that security is very tight, and the readers see no evidence that it isn't - no plot holes - then readers will believe that security is tight without needing extreme detail. After all, why shouldn't they?

I would also be wary of going into really deep detail in the story itself (although the research often requires deeper knowledge than is revealed in the book). I've found it's quite easy to get very technical and fiddly when describing exact locations (the vase is 2 feet right of the door, etc) and some readers don't seem to take these details in very easily.

Anyhow, that's just my opinion. I'll shut up now and let you get on with things.

 

[reiver33]

The woman who is currently viewed as the reincarnation of the original 'Our Lady' (the mother of God-On-Earth) is viewed by the church as the basis of its authority on Earth. Offically the view is that if God-In-Heaven ever decides to visit the Earth in person again then it will be as a baby born to this series of women. The original God-On-Earth was born to a childless couple but since then the role of 'My Lord' (the husband) has been 'airbrushed' out. Unofficially if 'Our Lady' were to become pregnant then this would cause no end of problems for the Church authories, hence her female-only environment.

The current 'Our Lady' is a (unexpectedly) moderating influence on the True Church and it's opponents want her removed such that it's radical nature is given full reign and provokes a backlash. The hero of my piece is sent in to assassinate her - being a good shot with a longbow - but falls in love with her instead (love at first sight, the proverbial bolt from the blue, etc.) and resolves to elope with her instead. Well, that's 'elope' as in kidnap as she's never met him...

 

[Blackrook]

It would be the equivalent to the US sending assassins to kill moderate Muslims, in order make Islam more radical.

 

[Toby Frost]

But it's not the real world or real religions, nor does it seem to be a satire of them. I don't see how it could be offensive.

 

[Blackrook]

The Church of reiver's book is obviously modeled after the Catholic Church.

The "Lady" is obviously modeled after the Virgin Mary.

I understand that in the UK the Catholic Church is hated for historical reasons, but in the US there are a lot of Catholics.

I am telling you from an American perspective that this idea of killing and/or seducing the Virgin Mary would be hard to get published.

I am talking about dollars and cents, not artistic integrity. If you don't want to publish, carry on.

 

[Faraway]

Surely this would be much much less offensive than The Da Vinci Code?

 

[Toby Frost]

Warhammer 40,000 has blatantly catholic imagery, a space-inquisition, some very dubious battle-nuns and a genocidal psychic skeleton in place of God, and it does quite well in the US. But I'm happy to acknowledge that this isn't my area.

For what it's worth the Catholic church isn't hated in the UK: I can't think of a church that is (well, cults and extremists are pretty despised). Obviously the recent scandal has lost it a lot of respect, but religious wars and the like are largely forgotten, except as an excuse for violence by political nutcases and football gangs.

 

[reiver33]

Ouch! I seem to have stirred things up somewhat, which obviously wasn’t my attention.

The ‘Our Lady’ of my piece is viewed as the living embodiment of the (possibly apocryphal) original, in a manner similar to that of the Dalai Lama. The Church is a monotheistic religion on the verge of supplanting the older pantheon of Gods. The new church has already tried, and failed, to become not just the pre-eminent but exclusive religious body in the city and area over which it holds sway. The supporters of these older beliefs are attempting to forestall a second, probably successful, attempt by goading the ‘True Church’ into premature action.

The person of ‘Our Lady’ is not considered divine, but merely the potential instrument of God’s will.

 

[Brett Howell]

To me, it sounds like the perfect defensive system - but they usually lack a fatal flaw - They believe the system so perfect that no-one would dare try anything. This has the unfortunate side effect of expecting the unexpected and planning for it - but the EXPECTED happening tends to throw them off for critical moments.

What would be my solution?

Boldness..... something so bold that no-one would dare think it possible, and shock them long enough to spirit her away.

Personally, I could see the MC here insinuating himself in to being one of the girls "consorts" in one of the religious ceremonies (I'm presuming this happens in front of everyone, like a show? lol) During the act, he could simply steal one of the guards weapons (who would expect that?) - hold it to the girl's throat and walk out with her.

Once the pair are out in the city, well, it becomes harder to track them, but the whole city will be on alert very quickly..... so what wouldn't the guards expect?

Again, personally - I'd hide in the MOST obvious spot - guards that are arrogant or in a state of panic, won't bother checking the most obvious place to hide - then, when they've past - out they hop on their merry way.

.... that could use some fine tuning though, this is just off the top of my head

 

[reiver33]

Oooh! Hardcore approach...

If he can get the two of them to the Outer Eight then hiding out might be possible, although the hostage aspect might not play out. The Church would readily sacrifice the current 'Our Lady' rather than see her fall into other hands and the Patriarch would then rely on devine guidance to find another. If he can spirit her away and/or declared dead then that would take some of the heat off - even if she was to escape and return she'd now be an imposter , obviously!

 

[Brett Howell]

Oooh! Hardcore approach...

If he can get the two of them to the Outer Eight then hiding out might be possible, although the hostage aspect might not play out. The Church would readily sacrifice the current 'Our Lady' rather than see her fall into other hands and the Patriarch would then rely on devine guidance to find another. If he can spirit her away and/or declared dead then that would take some of the heat off - even if she was to escape and return she'd now be an imposter , obviously!

Yeah - I don't really believe in subtlety

A gruesome approach: maybe he can have her poisoned from afar (sneaking it in to a drink that would be delivered to her room) to make her appear dead (extremely slow heartbeat, allmost non-existant) - then he could steal her "body" during the funeral - who'd expect someone to steal a corpse in the middle of the burial? And as far as the Church was concerned, she'd still be dead. Once they're away, slip her the antidote or wait for her to heal normally and go in to hiding for a while (while some factions in the Church believe her to be still alive and hunt her down, the main Church believes she's still dead)

....

Why can't I come up with ideas for my own stories this easily

 

[Blackrook]

Here's the solution:

The hero is going into the temple to kidnap the lady.

The next scene he is back at the good guy base and he has succeeded in kidnapping the lady.

Someone asks him how he kidnapped the lady and he says:

"Well, first I ..."

Then the bad guys bust in, there's a big battle and the good guys have to flee into the forest and have many adventures.

Hopefully, the reader forgets in the excitement that you owe them an explanation for how he kidnapped the lady.

I know it's lame, but A.J. Abrams gets away with this kind of thing all the time.

 

[Blackrook]

I'm joking. Please do not imitate A.J. Abrams.

 

[reiver33]

So I start the chapter;

As the flames from the Temple roared into the night sky, I scurried from shadow to shadow bearing the unconcious form of my beloved. So gruesome had been the means by which I'd secured her person I swore never to disclose the details, in case she considered me some kind of monster.

The fake death angle is going down the 'Romeo & Juliet' route. The hero just has to get to her before she wakes up in the crypt...

 

[Blackrook]

So I start the chapter;

As the flames from the Temple roared into the night sky, I scurried from shadow to shadow bearing the unconcious form of my beloved. So gruesome had been the means by which I'd secured her person I swore never to disclose the details, in case she considered me some kind of monster.

Perfect!!!

Please note that A.J. Abrams never revealed how Sydney Bristow got extracted when her missions were over. She was simply teleported to Los Angeles and briefed on her next mission.

 

[Winter Lord]

Who cleans her chambers?

 

[reiver33]

She has a number of female attendants who live in a 'dorm' adjacent to her rooms on the same floor.