The minor open ended plots...

[xLORDSNOWx]

I'm not sure if this theory has already been addresed but.....

Does anyone think the fake Arya could be Jene Poole? She pretty much disapeared after talking to Sanser while they were locked up together. If it is, then Theon/Reak would recognize her and let his captives believe it is Arya, while they hatch a plan to escape.

Any thoughts....

 

[chairface]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure Fake Arya = Jeyne is the going theory.

 

[The Imp]

Extensive information/speculation regarding the fake Arya can be found here

Secret Identities: The Impostor Arya ~ Tower of the Hand

 

[IlliferThePenniless]

I've always taken it as a given that Jeyne Poole is the fake Arya. Didn't Tywin more or less confirm it to Tyrion?

Perhaps Littlefinger succeeded where you and Varys failed. Lord Bolton will wed the girl to his ******* son.

It's hard to see how that could mean anything else...

 

[TK-421]

See previous threads that touched on this:

A Dance With Dragons: Speculation?
tyrion-sansa couple
Starks as Wargs [possible spoilers]
Arya Possibilities
The name Jeyne
Current Stand-In's
"Ayra"
Who is the heir to Winterfell?

 

[xLORDSNOWx]

I should have known you guys and gals would have been all over that one. Thanks for the references, and apologies for rehatching an already heavily discussed theory. I'm new (green) to the forum, but with all of the information that has been discussed in my month or so here, i feel like a wiley veteran somteimes.

Thanks again!

 

[The Imp]

I should have known you guys and gals would have been all over that one. Thanks for the references, and apologies for rehatching an already heavily discussed theory. I'm new (green) to the forum, but with all of the information that has been discussed in my month or so here, i feel like a wiley veteran somteimes.

Thanks again!

There's no need or reason for apologies. I for one love seeing someone relatively new to the series come up with a "new" theory. There is always room for improvement, or nuance, and there's no reason that something new can't be added to what has already been established. IMO there's still more to be said about the Syrio not being dead theory, or the Jaqan = Syrio. SOmetimes someone with a fresh perspective can uncover things that have been in plain sight but not seen.

 

[xLORDSNOWx]

Thanks Imp! I just started rereading ACOK for the first time and have been hearing all kinds of pertinent information which gets the gears to moving in my head. ACOK is actually a good book and i dont know why it took me so long to reread. I've read ASOS about 5 times, AFFC 3 times, AGOT's about 3 times and i'm finally getting to ACOK again.

I'm torn about the Syrio theories as well, only because it appears that George left the door wide open for speculation and then releases the statement that you recently provided that kind of says he's dead. My whole thing is why would a Braavosi who are known for their fighting skills have a less than thrilling death by the hands of someone who hasnt really shown us anything of valor, courage, or superior swordsmenship (even though he was in full armour and Syrio wasnt)

The Jaquin = Syrio has its holes as well, but I'm confused as to how a faceless man could be put in a situation as to where he is going to die if Arya doesnt save him. Was that a test for her? Did Syrio send a raven to Braavos telling them that he had a young girl full of promise and to keep a watch over this one?

With the sorcery he knows (i.e. power to change his face, kill the 3 three men for Arya, and takes the form of Pate in the end) but he cant release himself out of his chains while being led by Yoren, not to mention the black cells where he came from? Was his purpose to meet with Arya? I doubt it. Was he supposed to die in the fire? Did his mission change which had him ending up at the Citadel?

WOW, i didnt realize i wrote this much....

It seems the more i read, the less i really know

Uh oh, i think i'm going to be bombarded with previous thread references again

 

[The Imp]

Thanks Imp! I just started rereading ACOK for the first time and have been hearing all kinds of pertinent information which gets the gears to moving in my head. ACOK is actually a good book and i dont know why it took me so long to reread. I've read ASOS about 5 times, AFFC 3 times, AGOT's about 3 times and i'm finally getting to ACOK again.

I'm torn about the Syrio theories as well, only because it appears that George left the door wide open for speculation and then releases the statement that you recently provided that kind of says he's dead. My whole thing is why would a Braavosi who are known for their fighting skills have a less than thrilling death by the hands of someone who hasnt really shown us anything of valor, courage, or superior swordsmenship (even though he was in full armour and Syrio wasnt)

The Jaquin = Syrio has its holes as well, but I'm confused as to how a faceless man could be put in a situation as to where he is going to die if Arya doesnt save him. Was that a test for her? Did Syrio send a raven to Braavos telling them that he had a young girl full of promise and to keep a watch over this one?

With the sorcery he knows (i.e. power to change his face, kill the 3 three men for Arya, and takes the form of Pate in the end) but he cant release himself out of his chains while being led by Yoren, not to mention the black cells where he came from? Was his purpose to meet with Arya? I doubt it. Was he supposed to die in the fire? Did his mission change which had him ending up at the Citadel?

WOW, i didnt realize i wrote this much....

It seems the more i read, the less i really know

Uh oh, i think i'm going to be bombarded with previous thread references again

The more I think about that GRRM quote which basically said you have a guy with a stick going against an armed knight, draw your own conclusion the more I think this was a red herring. Here's why

It would be entirely reasonable to say the same thing about the Bronn-Egen fight. You had a guy with a sellsword in almost no armor going against a knight. Draw your own conclusion. Everyone but Cat drew the conclusion that Bronn would lose and Tyrion would fly, but everyone was wrong. In the Syrio-trant fight Syrio was actually a guy with half a stick because the pratice sword that he used to decimate Trant's companions had been broken in two, however, there was nothing to stop him from picking up the weapon of one of those he had killed. It's certainly not a stretch to say then, you have a guy with a sword and no armor fighting a knight, draw your own conclusion. Furthermore, while Ser Merryn certainly couldn't be considered a bumbling idiot, he would be fighting the Frist Sword of Bravos, a Dancing Master that was teaching Arya skills that could be called the Zen of Swordfighting. The other advantage that Ser Merryn is assumed to have had is armor, but is it reasonable to think that he'd be walking around the castle in full battle gear? Of course not. It's more likely that had had on a mail shirt, and not a lot more. If he was fighting an armed Syrio this would be zero advantage, as we know that Syrio was the much faster and the more highly skilled of the two.

Conclusion? Maybe Syrio is alive, maybe he's dead, but certainly neither is a given. The most compelling proof of Trant winning is that we see someone name Ser Merryn trant appear many times after that fight. That doesn't preclude the possibility of Syrio escaping, and Trant not wanting to say anything for fear of being shamed, or worse.

As for Jaqan. FIrst off, Jaqan is Yoren's prisoner because he wants to be, not because Yoren could in any way, shape or form hold him if Jaqan chose to escape or want to kill him. Jaqan was on a job/mission, and being with Yoren was part of that job. I don't know how it will all fit, but it's my opinion that Jaqan was there to watch over Arya and that her ending up in The House of White and Black was a direct result of Jaqan's guiding hand. Syrio = Jaqan is probably a stretch at best, but Jaqan guiding Arya isn't.

 

[Ursa major]

The more I think about that GRRM quote which basically said you have a guy with a stick going against an armed knight, draw your own conclusion the more I think this was a red herring.

I tend to agree. GRRM is able to surprise us because before the surprise, he's given a true (as far as it goes) account of events from which we can draw our own conclusions and so we use the (partial) information to deceive ourselves. (Okay, some of the surprises work because GRRM keeps so many balls in the air, we forget some of them, Stannis in the North being an example.)

It would be entirely reasonable to say the same thing about the Bronn-Egen fight.

I was thinking this myself. But on the other hand, GRRM is so tricksy, this could very well be him deceiving us into believing Syrio survived when he didn't....

 

[The Imp]

I tend to agree. GRRM is able to surprise us because before the surprise, he's given a true (as far as it goes) account of events from which we can draw our own conclusions and so we use the (partial) information to deceive ourselves. (Okay, some of the surprises work because GRRM keeps so many balls in the air, we forget some of them, Stannis in the North being an example.)


I was thinking this myself. But on the other hand, GRRM is so tricksy, this could very well be him deceiving us into believing Syrio survived when he didn't....

You make a great point. GRRM is a master of being able to mislead, obfuscate and weave a cloth of lies from the threads of half truths. Saying "this is what happened, draw your own conclusion" is evasive at best and might end up being (in retrospect) misleading. I'll even make the argument that if he has a plan to re-introduce Syrio at some point down the raod it would be in the interest of the plot to say what he said. Saying Syrio is still alive would spoil the fun and saying he is dead might be lying. SXaying the reader should draw their own conclusion takes GRRM off the ethical hook.

 

[Ursa major]

Good thinking.



Tying himself down wouldn't be a good idea, particularly given his experiences with the Meereenese Knot.

 

[xLORDSNOWx]

I wonder how Nymeria and her wolf pack will play into the series going forward. They appear to be getting more and more fierce, as they are starting to attack armed soldiers. As Danny's dragons grow bigger, so does the Direwolves. Being that the series started off with a Stag with its antelers lodged into a Direwolf, i wonder if it will come back full circle somehow. I doubt that Jon and Arya will hook up as some have suggested, but i wouldnt rule out their wolves mating. Unless, Nymeria refuses to give up control of her pack. This could turn into a "Jay and Silent Bob" relationship if they united.

 

[Wiggum]

Nymeria and her pack are going to grow to a point to battle a young dragon, most will die, but they will be high enough on the wall to cripple it.

Jon and Ghost will both perish, falling off The Wall in it's defense, but at that point Dany will know two fronts to fight. The Others from the North, and the Lannisters from the South.

Complete bs, but this thread makes me want the next book to hit the shelves sooooo bad.