Dealing with weaknesses in your style?

[Karn Maeshalanadae]

Yeah, I'll go with that. I think a lot of its also to do with pressing the reader's 'matchmaker' button. 'C'mon, you guys!' Thinks reader 'Get it together! Can't you see your made for each other!'

Yeah, but it's also a dead goose. People are changing all the time, and their entertainment tastes are as well. Another round of such things as "You've Got Mail" and stuff like that......I think people would prefer something new.

Which also seems to be why Tolkeinesque fantasy is also dying.....

 

[Toby Frost]

I think Persuasion was the one they made me read at school.

Of course, you're not writing a romance but a romantic subplot (and you're not obliged to add one at all if you don't want to). I don't think you need to study romance novels to see how a romantic subplot would work, especially if it's not going to work by the rather formalised rules of some romances. Two competent characters who have lots of adventures together and gradually decide they like each other would work fine provided that the adventures were exciting enough and gave them the option to do so.

I find it very irritating, however, when authors decide that if a man and woman are in the same room for a while they will randomly have sex. William Gibson does this a couple of times in the Neuromancer books. Perhaps it's to say something about the soullessness of the future, but it just ends up looking very unrealistic.

 

[J-WO]

Yeah, but it's also a dead goose. People are changing all the time, and their entertainment tastes are as well. Another round of such things as "You've Got Mail" and stuff like that......I think people would prefer something new.

Which also seems to be why Tolkeinesque fantasy is also dying.....

Maybe someone should mix the two. 'You've got chain mail' maybe.

 

[J-WO]

I find it very irritating, however, when authors decide that if a man and woman are in the same room for a while they will randomly have sex. William Gibson does this a couple of times in the Neuromancer books. Perhaps it's to say something about the soullessness of the future, but it just ends up looking very unrealistic.

Richard Morgans another offender. I generally skip a page when he starts.

They should put him in a room with Gibson...

 

[Jon Sprunk]

I find it very irritating, however, when authors decide that if a man and woman are in the same room for a while they will randomly have sex. William Gibson does this a couple of times in the Neuromancer books. Perhaps it's to say something about the soullessness of the future, but it just ends up looking very unrealistic.

I agree, but I would venture to say it goes along the lines of the old writing adage, 'If nothing is happening in a scene, have someone walk in with a gun.'

Again, I'm not defending these techniques. Just trying to make sense of them.

 

[Karn Maeshalanadae]

Maybe someone should mix the two. 'You've got chain mail' maybe.

Now that just sounds like a bad computer virus prank.....

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

I've been writing High Fantasy with romantic elements for years, and the two go together just fine (or so I think, naturally). Not very much in the present series, because the characters are too darn busy to spare a thought.

Anyway, if the subject is romance rather than general weaknesses in style, I agree with those who say that when looking for inspiration you should look for romantic sub-plots rather than books that are all about Romance. (My heart says to chime in with those who say Jane Austen, but my head says, "No, she wouldn't suit with Xelah's type of story.") Lois McMaster Bujold puts romance into her space operas, and in such a way that she doesn't drive her male readership running for the nearest exit.

But it all depends on what sort of romantic scenes you want to write. Are you thinking of something tender and gentle? Wild sex? Anguish and URST (unresolved sexual tension)? All these require a different treatment.

Personally, I don't have a problem with the typical "they hate each other and then they love each other" romance, but what I find utterly distasteful is the thing I have seen in some Romance novels which is that they secretly love each other but are hatefully cruel to each other until they finally reveal their love in the last chapter.

It's different for characters who are already an established couple. Then they may have years of festering grievances and repeated betrayals to goad them. (Or ... they might be sado-masochists of course.)

 

[Karn Maeshalanadae]

Haha. This has almost inspired me to do a major overhaul of SI. Of course, I doubt any editing I would perform would actually be any better than the original.....

 

[chrispenycate]

Maybe someone should mix the two. 'You've got chain mail' maybe.

Wasn't there, in the "Chicks in chain mail" series (yes, there really was one) a book called "Chicks and chained males?

 

[Karn Maeshalanadae]

I do seem to recall seeing those books in a local bookstore once, but that was years ago.....

 

[Toby Frost]

At the end of the day I suppose it's got to ring true in its context. Neither Gandalf nor Philip Marlowe talks like a real person, but they both work in the stories in which they are set (although swapping their voices would be awesome). However I do have problems where characters do things I don't think normal humans do, which for me includes the love/hate stuff. (Indifference, fine. But hate?)

But romance seems to me almost inherent to high fantasy - not obligatory but something that definately goes with the territory. I think I'd rather expect it and I certainly wouldn't begrudge a writer for including it: the romance in Memory, Sorrow and Thorn, for instance, really helped strengthen the story and characters.

 

[Karn Maeshalanadae]

That it did, for MST, Toby, that it did. God knows that series needed strengthening after the way Tad Williams jumped between main characters so often. I almost felt like a tennis ball reading that series.


Of course, fantasy can go with absolutely no romance at all, as well. Anything can, really. But I suspect that writers so often contain it in their writing because when it comes down to it, humans are rather dirty-minded creatures, and there's incentive to having intimacy between two people, real or imaginary. Nature made such a thing feel good for a reason.

But that's getting entirely off topic and I shall not say another word lest I get a warning.





But back to weakness in style, and how to deal with it. First off, one MUST have an objective eye scan over their work, either their own (Which tends to be hard to do) or an outside party's. These weaknesses can then be identified. Then, and only then, can one actually hope to deal with it. But how to once you know where those weaknesses are? Well, read it aloud and see how it sounds to you. Does this flow smoothly and easily? Or is it choppy like the Atlantic in a hurricane? Is this or that right? Asking these questions and honestly answering them is the first real step to editing. The hardest part seems to be, though, "What can I replace this section with to make it stronger?"


I've yet to find the answer to THAT question with my own work, which seems to be why I never do any editing......

 

[J-WO]

I get scared of both under and over-editing. Its always a thin line between the two and I'm not all that sure I ever recognize it. I guess its a skill one earns...

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

It's not just about physical intimacy, though. Most people have an instinct to seek emotional intimacy, which of course a physical bond can make more intense (or vice-versa). Some don't ever achieve it, some are perfectly happy without it, but the large majority will take it if it's offered unless previous experiences have taught them to suspect it.

I think that is what a lot of what passes for romance lacks, the factor of intimacy. Even -- or maybe even especially -- the sexual act can lack true intimacy if the circumstances aren't right.

If the circumstances are there in the story, the active imagination of the reader will provide most of the romance.