Sherlock (Steven Moffat BBC series)
- Thread starter Lenny
- Start date
I heard Benedict Cumberbatch on the radio yesterday, playing the younger Rumpole of the Bailey. (Timothy West was his older self, looking back at his cases from, I think, the 1960s.) Now while recording a 45-minute episode of a radio play doesn't eat time to anywhere near the extent that a one hour TV show does, I think it does shows Cumberbatch's desire to keep his career going on a number of media.
(This was his third radio Rumpole this year, by the way, i.e. it wasn't a one-off.)
(This was his third radio Rumpole this year, by the way, i.e. it wasn't a one-off.)
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I would have thought that on a professional level they would at least want to 'finish the job' and bring the series to an appropriate end. Financially I would be surprised if either needed the money , so it's really a case of whether they like doing it and if they are professional enough (presumably the Beeb would have them contracted to do a 3rd series anyway); I think the answer to both questions is 'yes'.
Lenny
Press "X" to admire hat
Watched the first series again yesterday, and the second again today, so I have new thoughts on the cliffhanger! I've also gone back through the thread to make sure I'm not rehashing old ideas. 
Obvious ones out of the way first: Molly is in on it, probably running the morgue side of things, making sure he is announced dead; Sherlock's homeless network also helps (bicycle man, for example).
I think there are two main components to his survival - the Baskerville drug from episode two, and the drug Adler used on him in episode one (she jabbed him with a needle that appeared to contain a sedative of sorts).
When John gets knocked over by bicycle man, he hits the ground and we hear a high-pitched ringing. As this is John Watson, war veteran, I can't believe a simple knock confused him, so why the ringing? When he was locked in the lab in the second episode, we heard a high-pitched ringing as he began to get scared. I'm going to make an assumption that pumping adrenaline is what sets the Baskerville drug off - something he's definitely going to experience having seen Sherlock jump off a building and then be surprised by bicycle man. And, of course, as subjects become highly suggestible on the drug, Sherlock's speech made John see what was suggested to him. Question is, when did Sherlock administer it?
What of Adler's drug? Sedatives are neat little things that can be used to just calm someone down, numb pain, send a person to sleep, and, if administered in a large enough dose, overwhelm the body entirely. As Sherlock is completely lucid up until hitting the ground, we can probably rule out him self-administering. Luckily, there are plenty of opportunities for a bystander to inject Sherlock as he is laying on the floor, because there are long periods of time that John cannot see him for - the rubbish truck, John being knocked down, and the crowd around the body. My thoughts are that one of Sherlock's helpers sedated him after he hit the ground for two reasons - firstly to numb what has to be excruciating pain (you know, just in case he wasn't unconscious), and secondly to give the impression of death. Sherlock is a man who knows everything, and as such a man can most assuredly calculate how much of a sedative he should be given to almost kill him, but not quite.
As for the fall? Calculation, and sheer luck. There are plenty of documented cases of people surviving long falls, so Sherlock was able to pick a building he could jump from with a good enough chance that he'd survive, whilst still looking fatal.
---
In chronological order:
* Sherlock realises he has to die to beat Moriarty.
* Sherlock works out which building he can survive a fall from.
* Sherlock enlists Molly to help in his plan, along with his homeless network.
* At some point on the day, Sherlock drugs Watson with the Baskerville drug.
* Sherlock meets Moriarty, the scene plays out, and Sherlock jumps, having suggested suicide to John over the phone.
* Sherlock hits the ground, shattering many bones, damaging a lot of tissue, and almost killing himself.
* John, with the drug and adrenaline coursing through his veins, sees what he thinks is a fatal fall, but does so in a state of confusion, partly thanks to bicycle man.
* Whilst John can't see the body (rubbish truck, bicycle man, crowd, etc), Sherlock is injected with a sedative to give the impression of death.
* John gets to Sherlock, tries to take a pulse, but fails and assumes Sherlock is dead.
* Hospital workers rush Sherlock into the hospital.
* Molly works some magic.
Some months later (I can't work out if it's eighteen months from the incident, or eighteen months from meeting Sherlock), John's therapist tells him to say what he wants to say, so John does so at Sherlock's grave. At this point, Sherlock has recovered enough to look healthy and be able to move around outside.
---
It's either that or voodoo.
Though probably something else entirely.
Obvious ones out of the way first: Molly is in on it, probably running the morgue side of things, making sure he is announced dead; Sherlock's homeless network also helps (bicycle man, for example).
I think there are two main components to his survival - the Baskerville drug from episode two, and the drug Adler used on him in episode one (she jabbed him with a needle that appeared to contain a sedative of sorts).
When John gets knocked over by bicycle man, he hits the ground and we hear a high-pitched ringing. As this is John Watson, war veteran, I can't believe a simple knock confused him, so why the ringing? When he was locked in the lab in the second episode, we heard a high-pitched ringing as he began to get scared. I'm going to make an assumption that pumping adrenaline is what sets the Baskerville drug off - something he's definitely going to experience having seen Sherlock jump off a building and then be surprised by bicycle man. And, of course, as subjects become highly suggestible on the drug, Sherlock's speech made John see what was suggested to him. Question is, when did Sherlock administer it?
What of Adler's drug? Sedatives are neat little things that can be used to just calm someone down, numb pain, send a person to sleep, and, if administered in a large enough dose, overwhelm the body entirely. As Sherlock is completely lucid up until hitting the ground, we can probably rule out him self-administering. Luckily, there are plenty of opportunities for a bystander to inject Sherlock as he is laying on the floor, because there are long periods of time that John cannot see him for - the rubbish truck, John being knocked down, and the crowd around the body. My thoughts are that one of Sherlock's helpers sedated him after he hit the ground for two reasons - firstly to numb what has to be excruciating pain (you know, just in case he wasn't unconscious), and secondly to give the impression of death. Sherlock is a man who knows everything, and as such a man can most assuredly calculate how much of a sedative he should be given to almost kill him, but not quite.
As for the fall? Calculation, and sheer luck. There are plenty of documented cases of people surviving long falls, so Sherlock was able to pick a building he could jump from with a good enough chance that he'd survive, whilst still looking fatal.
---
In chronological order:
* Sherlock realises he has to die to beat Moriarty.
* Sherlock works out which building he can survive a fall from.
* Sherlock enlists Molly to help in his plan, along with his homeless network.
* At some point on the day, Sherlock drugs Watson with the Baskerville drug.
* Sherlock meets Moriarty, the scene plays out, and Sherlock jumps, having suggested suicide to John over the phone.
* Sherlock hits the ground, shattering many bones, damaging a lot of tissue, and almost killing himself.
* John, with the drug and adrenaline coursing through his veins, sees what he thinks is a fatal fall, but does so in a state of confusion, partly thanks to bicycle man.
* Whilst John can't see the body (rubbish truck, bicycle man, crowd, etc), Sherlock is injected with a sedative to give the impression of death.
* John gets to Sherlock, tries to take a pulse, but fails and assumes Sherlock is dead.
* Hospital workers rush Sherlock into the hospital.
* Molly works some magic.
Some months later (I can't work out if it's eighteen months from the incident, or eighteen months from meeting Sherlock), John's therapist tells him to say what he wants to say, so John does so at Sherlock's grave. At this point, Sherlock has recovered enough to look healthy and be able to move around outside.
---
It's either that or voodoo.
Though probably something else entirely.
- Boys from Brazil - Cloning.
- Sherlock Holmes Smarter Younger Brother.
- Dallas - It was all a dream and John is still in the shower.
- Vanilla Sky/ Total Recall - Faked implanted Memory.
- Dr. Who - some Timey Whimey business.
I'd completely forgotten about this, but it will be along the lines of what Lenny just said. I remember reading an explanation that included at least some parts of that last year. Almost certainly, Molly is involved.
PTeppic
Reetou Diplomatic Corp
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I think this is the only questionable line in the conclusion: anything over 30 feet is considered (on average, to be) fatal and many people die from falling off (being pushed off) their feet (i.e. 5-6 feet). Factor in the various suggestions about breaking the fall and it makes more sense. Watson was the low-level witness; any of Moriarty's are (presumably) assumed to be at high level not on the ground.
Lenny
Press "X" to admire hat
As much as I'd love to subscribe to the "SHERLOCK IS THAT GOOD!!" group, I feel myself coming around to Tillane's thoughts, and that it's not how Sherlock faked the suicide, but how he survived the fall.
I also think it has to do with things from previous episodes for Moffat's sake. Whilst it's possible that, as one theory on the Internet suggests, Sherlock was wearing copper coils under his shirt and jumped through a magnetic field which slowed his descent, its prettyt much a Deus ex Machina that will cheapen everything. From a story-telling point of view, it just can't happen, as some point in the first episode of the third series, everyone will expect flashbacks to scenes we saw in the second series, that together explain how Sherlock faked it all.
Whilst a fall from 30 feet is most likely to be fatal (and looking at St. Barts, Sherlock probably jumped from around 45 feet), surely there is some variance due to how a person lands? It could just have been tricks of the camera, and Cumberbatch assuming a general dead pose, but Sherlock didn't belly flop from the roof and land flat on his front. Rather, as he falls it seems to be at an angle, with his legs a few feet below his head, and he appears to land on his right side (who needs two shoulders, two lungs, and a side of ribs, anyway?). Obviously, a man of Sherlock's intellect would be able to work out which angle he'd need to fall at, and the position in which to land, to minimise damage and the chance of death.
I know I'm over-analysing, so I'm going to leave this before I get the urge to go through the entire episode frame-by-frame.
---
EDIT: OK, another thought I had last night in relation to Adler's mystery drug is that Sherlock somehow managed to inject himself before jumping, and the effects of it helped him survive the fall as he'd be loose and floppy when he landed, rather than rigid and more likely to shatter everything. I've heard the tale told about cats surviving from ten-floor falls by making their bodies loose and floppy, so I wondered if the same could be true of humans.
I also think it has to do with things from previous episodes for Moffat's sake. Whilst it's possible that, as one theory on the Internet suggests, Sherlock was wearing copper coils under his shirt and jumped through a magnetic field which slowed his descent, its prettyt much a Deus ex Machina that will cheapen everything. From a story-telling point of view, it just can't happen, as some point in the first episode of the third series, everyone will expect flashbacks to scenes we saw in the second series, that together explain how Sherlock faked it all.
Whilst a fall from 30 feet is most likely to be fatal (and looking at St. Barts, Sherlock probably jumped from around 45 feet), surely there is some variance due to how a person lands? It could just have been tricks of the camera, and Cumberbatch assuming a general dead pose, but Sherlock didn't belly flop from the roof and land flat on his front. Rather, as he falls it seems to be at an angle, with his legs a few feet below his head, and he appears to land on his right side (who needs two shoulders, two lungs, and a side of ribs, anyway?). Obviously, a man of Sherlock's intellect would be able to work out which angle he'd need to fall at, and the position in which to land, to minimise damage and the chance of death.
I know I'm over-analysing, so I'm going to leave this before I get the urge to go through the entire episode frame-by-frame.
---
EDIT: OK, another thought I had last night in relation to Adler's mystery drug is that Sherlock somehow managed to inject himself before jumping, and the effects of it helped him survive the fall as he'd be loose and floppy when he landed, rather than rigid and more likely to shatter everything. I've heard the tale told about cats surviving from ten-floor falls by making their bodies loose and floppy, so I wondered if the same could be true of humans.
HoopyFrood
It's me! Hurrah!
Regarding that last, my friend once accidentally tipped out of her wheelchair and hit the pavement hard. It was after a night out and the paramedics said the alcohol meant she was a bit more loose when she fell and didn't try to stop herself falling (maybe more likely to break an arm or something) so she only really hurt her nose in the end (which was scary enough).
He would be the perfect choice for the role. He is very good at playing offbeat characters or eccentric genius such as Van Gogh and Stephen Hawking.
bad news that we have to wait for much longer for series 3!
Connavar
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I hope he cares for Sherlock tv show and knows he is playing a huge,important detective in a hailed tv show. Many of the finest actors in US are in tv dramas these days. I hope we dont lose this great show to some Hollywood blockbusters. Star Trek is hardly best film done by Hollywood.
Freeman is good but he can be replaced. I cant see anyone replacing Cumberbatch. He is the defination of a modern setting Sherlock Holmes.
Connavar
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He would be the perfect choice for the role. He is very good at playing offbeat characters or eccentric genius such as Van Gogh and Stephen Hawking.
bad news that we have to wait for much longer for series 3!
How is it bad news? Season 2 had the same problem because of the writer i think it was. It was few months delayed. As long as they make Sherlock season every year i dont care if its 2,3 months late.
Watched the first series again yesterday, and the second again today, so I have new thoughts on the cliffhanger! I've also gone back through the thread to make sure I'm not rehashing old ideas.
Obvious ones out of the way first: Molly is in on it, probably running the morgue side of things, making sure he is announced dead; Sherlock's homeless network also helps (bicycle man, for example).
I think there are two main components to his survival - the Baskerville drug from episode two, and the drug Adler used on him in episode one (she jabbed him with a needle that appeared to contain a sedative of sorts).
When John gets knocked over by bicycle man, he hits the ground and we hear a high-pitched ringing. As this is John Watson, war veteran, I can't believe a simple knock confused him, so why the ringing? When he was locked in the lab in the second episode, we heard a high-pitched ringing as he began to get scared. I'm going to make an assumption that pumping adrenaline is what sets the Baskerville drug off - something he's definitely going to experience having seen Sherlock jump off a building and then be surprised by bicycle man. And, of course, as subjects become highly suggestible on the drug, Sherlock's speech made John see what was suggested to him. Question is, when did Sherlock administer it?
What of Adler's drug? Sedatives are neat little things that can be used to just calm someone down, numb pain, send a person to sleep, and, if administered in a large enough dose, overwhelm the body entirely. As Sherlock is completely lucid up until hitting the ground, we can probably rule out him self-administering. Luckily, there are plenty of opportunities for a bystander to inject Sherlock as he is laying on the floor, because there are long periods of time that John cannot see him for - the rubbish truck, John being knocked down, and the crowd around the body. My thoughts are that one of Sherlock's helpers sedated him after he hit the ground for two reasons - firstly to numb what has to be excruciating pain (you know, just in case he wasn't unconscious), and secondly to give the impression of death. Sherlock is a man who knows everything, and as such a man can most assuredly calculate how much of a sedative he should be given to almost kill him, but not quite.
As for the fall? Calculation, and sheer luck. There are plenty of documented cases of people surviving long falls, so Sherlock was able to pick a building he could jump from with a good enough chance that he'd survive, whilst still looking fatal.
---
In chronological order:
* Sherlock realises he has to die to beat Moriarty.
* Sherlock works out which building he can survive a fall from.
* Sherlock enlists Molly to help in his plan, along with his homeless network.
* At some point on the day, Sherlock drugs Watson with the Baskerville drug.
* Sherlock meets Moriarty, the scene plays out, and Sherlock jumps, having suggested suicide to John over the phone.
* Sherlock hits the ground, shattering many bones, damaging a lot of tissue, and almost killing himself.
* John, with the drug and adrenaline coursing through his veins, sees what he thinks is a fatal fall, but does so in a state of confusion, partly thanks to bicycle man.
* Whilst John can't see the body (rubbish truck, bicycle man, crowd, etc), Sherlock is injected with a sedative to give the impression of death.
* John gets to Sherlock, tries to take a pulse, but fails and assumes Sherlock is dead.
* Hospital workers rush Sherlock into the hospital.
* Molly works some magic.
Some months later (I can't work out if it's eighteen months from the incident, or eighteen months from meeting Sherlock), John's therapist tells him to say what he wants to say, so John does so at Sherlock's grave. At this point, Sherlock has recovered enough to look healthy and be able to move around outside.
---
It's either that or voodoo.
Though probably something else entirely.
Valid thoughts.
I think that the girl screaming as if she knew Sherlock (maybe a Sherlock mask of some sort) and the fake dummy have something to do with it as well.
I'll have to re-watch the series to get my thoughts around it (again).
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Freeman and Cumberbatch are both signed up for 3 more series which is good news. 4-5 seasons seems to be an acceptable lifespan for most good TV series before they begin to lose their appeal.
ctg
weaver of the unseen
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http://io9.com/5972417/why-cant-any-recent-sherlock-holmes-adaptation-get-irene-adler-right
Why is that Americans has to spoil all good things? I for one don't agree with this article, but some other people might find this very interesting.
Connavar
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Spoil all good things? Americans? You mean Irene Adler adaptation?
Frankly the literary one used by Doyle is hard to remember, she is barely in the story. She is more of a symbol of that she beat Sherlock, that he isnt flawless. Sherlock tv show had very interesting and memorable version. She is tricky,smart and not just action version.
Huttman
only differs in your mind
This is my first experience with Sherlock Holmes besides Robert Downey Jr.s version and just general knowledge of him over the years and I enjoy this series immensely. The woman episode was very memorable, I did not see that ending coming. As a matter of fact, this show has a wonderful habit of surprising me often, which is quite nice.
I do have a question, though. In the first episode, series one, the cabbie has two pill bottles offered for Sherlock to choose, as all his victims were supposedly given. They never said which bottle is which. Did the baddie get lucky every time or was it something else? Here is my take as I was watching it: they were both poisoned. Somehow the cabbie had immunity or had built up a tolerance to that particular poison. I have to admit, I got the idea from The Princess Bride in one of the many hilarious scenes from that movie.
I might have missed the explanation, but it seems its one of the few things left a mystery with this show (not counting the cliffhanger).
I do have a question, though. In the first episode, series one, the cabbie has two pill bottles offered for Sherlock to choose, as all his victims were supposedly given. They never said which bottle is which. Did the baddie get lucky every time or was it something else? Here is my take as I was watching it: they were both poisoned. Somehow the cabbie had immunity or had built up a tolerance to that particular poison. I have to admit, I got the idea from The Princess Bride in one of the many hilarious scenes from that movie.
I might have missed the explanation, but it seems its one of the few things left a mystery with this show (not counting the cliffhanger).
Building up a tolerance to poison is known (though not widely) as mithridatism, after one of the kings of Pontus, Mithridates VI (134BC - 63BC), who was said to have done this, so the idea has been around for some time.
Connavar
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I read that article and its silly the way it belittles the Moffat version just because she used her sexuality. I applaud the new tv show Adler being a good opponent, darker and as you say the opposite of Sherlock.
Its very one sided article making the literary Adler more important than she is in the Sherlock stories. She might be popular but no other character is important in the stories than Watson,Moriarty. Moriarty was important in stories he didnt appear in even.
I never knew it had a word associated with it, but I remember it as being the basis for one of the most gruesome scenes I ever read in a novel. In Colleen McCullogh's series on Ancient Rome she had that specific king discover his sister was about to poison him that way and forces her to drink it instead. He then clinically describes her rather horrible death to the assembled court as it occurs. I later found this to be based on an actual incident.
It must have taken something of a truly insane psychopath to actually WANT to be a king in those days.
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