Do you still like the series?

[Clansman]

Read MOI, and I say that as someone who has quit the series.

That book is astounding.

I agree Wiggum, MoI is an amazing book. I would agree with HB, though, that Erikson could use a tyrant of an editor. Not that the work is padded, far from it, but I have read four books, and am on the fifth, and I still don't know what he is trying to accomplish, aside from entertain certain kinds of readers. I think he is attempting something deeper, but I am not sure what, and this is due to a lack of focus on themes in the plot and character development (although at this point, I would say Karsa Orlong is an exception, but that was all in one book (House of Chains).

The books need to be distilled somewhat, to make them into a finer product, removing some of the impurities, and the links to the overarching story are surely the weakest part of Erikson's work. To be sure, there are great things happening in these books, but they could be considerably better were Erikson to take the time to let them distill. I mean, one 1000-page book a year for ten years?!? The pace is brutal, and lends itself to hackishness or laziness (in terms of writing discipline, not in terms of the volume).

A great series, yes, but with some significant flaws that could have been avoided had Erikson slowed his pace a bit, and had a drill-sargeant editor that he began to hate by the end of his first draft.

 

[Ross]

Whoever decided to quit and never got down to reading Memories of Ice.....you seriously missed out. Go now and read Memories of Ice....then quit after that. It'll be worth it.

 

[Ross]

Sorry for the double post.

Just thought I'd add something to the thread.

I'm really enjoying the books, I'm on House Of Chains and loving it.

But I'm starting to realise that some characters you've come to know were actually known as someone else in a previous book and not the character you have come to know them as.

This is fine but he's done it in a way where the time lines are allover the place. Instead of telling the story in a "straight line" the books are told at the same time but on a different part of the world. So where you actually meet someone new....it actually turns out you've already met them. (sorry if this doesn't make sense)

SPOILERS on what i'm talking about....Highlight to see

Two that spring to mind are Karsa Orlong and Heboric. otherwise known as Theloman Toblokai and Rath'Fener

 

[HareBrain]

No one's going to mind you posting twice in a row if they're days apart, Ross.

I'm about a quarter of the way through Memories of Ice at the moment, and enjoying it, (though I was very disappointed with the story of the origin of the Bridge Burners' name and Quick Ben's power. It was little more than a footnote.)

But one thing I've noticed about the world Erikson has created -- although I find it interesting, I don't believe in it at all. Nor do I care about any of the characters: none of them have become real people. This is a complaint I've read quite a lot about Erikson, but I can't figure out exactly why it's true. It contrasts strongly with ASoIaF, where I found the world and characters very real, even when I didn't much like them.

 

[Wiggum]

I'm about a quarter of the way through Memories of Ice at the moment, and enjoying it, (though I was very disappointed with the story of the origin of the Bridge Burners' name and Quick Ben's power. It was little more than a footnote.)

Really? I actually thought he executed that tale well. It's actually a section I'll look up every once in awhile to reread.

The library had Return of the Crimson Guard displayed, so I had to check it out.

Haven't started it yet, but I guess I lied about being done with Malazan

 

[HareBrain]

I'm about a quarter of the way through Memories of Ice at the moment, and enjoying it [...] But one thing I've noticed about the world Erikson has created -- although I find it interesting, I don't believe in it at all. Nor do I care about any of the characters: none of them have become real people.

Hmm, I can only assume Erikson read my post above, went back in time and rewrote the rest of the book to address these faults. I must say I'm impressed by his customer service.

 

[Clansman]

Hmm, I can only assume Erikson read my post above, went back in time and rewrote the rest of the book to address these faults. I must say I'm impressed by his customer service.

Yes, I noted the same thing. A quarter of the way through MoI, I was about to give up forever, because the characters were not interesting me. Then, the whole thing took off like wildfire. Good post, HB.

 

[HareBrain]

Yes, I noted the same thing. A quarter of the way through MoI, I was about to give up forever, because the characters were not interesting me. Then, the whole thing took off like wildfire. Good post, HB.

Ah, then maybe I should keep to myself the fact that I changed my mind again

Well, not quite. I thought the middle third of MOI was superb, but after Capustan, Coral could only be anticlimactic, and indeed it was (IMO). The lack of editor was very obvious towards the end too, meaning that again I started skimming a bit, and perhaps for that reason, had no emotional reaction whatever to the Big Event (though I'd heard about it before from somewhere so it didn't come as a surprise.)

Not sure if I'll carry on, but the last few pages were just about good enough to make it a possibility.

 

[nixie]

Ah, then maybe I should keep to myself the fact that I changed my mind again

Well, not quite. I thought the middle third of MOI was superb, but after Capustan, Coral could only be anticlimactic, and indeed it was (IMO). The lack of editor was very obvious towards the end too, meaning that again I started skimming a bit, and perhaps for that reason, had no emotional reaction whatever to the Big Event (though I'd heard about it before from somewhere so it didn't come as a surprise.)

Not sure if I'll carry on, but the last few pages were just about good enough to make it a possibility.

I don't get it, Erikson is my favourite author with MOI being top of list. Never had problems with the characters or any the other things people are complaining about. I suppose like everything people have different tastes.
There are a number of authors that people rave about but I can take them or leave them.

 

[Clansman]

The structure of MOI did disturb me. There is this huge climax in the middle of the book (Capustan), at which the entire first half of the book is aimed, and HB is right, the march to Coral seems anticlimactic. Then, there is a climactic explosion again. The events of Capustan are important more for what happens with Gruntle and the God Fener, and the bigger picture with the Crippled God and what is happening with Paran et al, and likely to the series as a whole. Memories of Ice is really a book and a half, and would have been better split in two (it is certainly big enough to do so), with a beefing up of the second half. However, I read with enjoyment right to the end, and the Big Event certainly had more impact on me than it did, apparently, on HB (though I too, knew it was coming).

I love the characters, and I love the story. It is very good. Still, a good editor would have taken this series from "very good" to a work of literature. And, the series would have been more accessible to many more readers.

 

[thespurringplatty]

I started the series with Midnight Tides (picked it up in the bargain bin for $3 US). Loved the depth! I have since gotten the series and started it in this order:
Night of Knives (Esslemont)
Gardens of the Moon
Deadhouse Gates
Memories of Ice
Midnight Tides (re-read)
House of Chains (almost at the end)

The thing that's annoying me the most is the chronology is so poorly done. For example, Midnight Tides seems to take place roughly in parallel with Memories of Ice, with House of Chains taking place after Midnight Tides. However there are events in House of Chains that are going on in parallel with Memories of Ice. It's like a horrible time warp.

 

[Rane Longfox]

The time-line is a bit confusing, but does make sense. Memories of Ice, Deadhouse Gates, House of Chains and Midnight Tides all overlap with each other, time-wise. I know Steve has been irritated by some authors in the past who follow a purely linear time-line, book-to-book, because realistically, this is not what would happen at all.

 

[thespurringplatty]

The time-line is a bit confusing, but does make sense. Memories of Ice, Deadhouse Gates, House of Chains and Midnight Tides all overlap with each other, time-wise. I know Steve has been irritated by some authors in the past who follow a purely linear time-line, book-to-book, because realistically, this is not what would happen at all.

Can you explain how Midnight Tides and House of Chains overlap, at least as far as the Trull Sengar storyline? Everything in House of Chains seems to be happening to me after the others, with the exception of the Karsa Orlong backstory at the beginning. I was under the impression that after the events in Midnight Tides, Trull then goes off on his own. In his travels he runs into Toblakai, who has left Raraku. By the time Toblakai left Raraku, the people there were already informed about events (trying to avoid spoilers here) that took place at the end of Memories of Ice after the T'lan Imass Summoning. So Trull runs into Toblakai, then some T'lan Imass who are preparing to go the Summoning because it hasn't taken place yet (but it has because Toblakai/Raraku/Malazans all know the outcome). Even Midnight Tides has a reference about the Beast Throne now being occupied by the two who claimed it, which happens by the end of Memories of Ice.

These are the things that I'm talking about don't make any sense! For the most part it all fit together fairly well for me until House of Chains. And I like that the threads of stories aren't linear. But adding the Edur and Trull into it and then trying to tie them to events and people they cross path with is really straining.

 

[biodroid]

Is the series completed?

 

[Lenny]

Erikson's ten book series is now completed, yes.

However, ICE's six book series is only half completed. Whilst you can simply read Erikson's Malazan Book of the Fallen series and be done with it, it's definitely worth reading ICE's books as they deal with various things that happen in Erikson's series - I think I'm right in saying that one of the books is, more or less, a direct sequel to Toll the Hounds.

Erikson starts off with the Malazan Empire but, after a few books, splits to follow a much different arc, whilst Esslemont stays with the Empire in all of his books.

 

[biodroid]

Thanks Lenny. And I pressed X like you said

 

[Rosemary]

Although I nearly gave up on his first book, I was encouraged to keep reading the series, even though I didn't really like blood and gore and had no idea of who was with each army!

One thing that stood out in nearly every book, was the way he described a character. He very often used the same word and to me it stuck out like a sore thumb.

I have now started his last in the series, The Crippled God and so far am really enjoying it.

I think the best thing to do, especially regarding his time line, is to re-read the whole series without a break. I've always found that in re-reading books, there is quite a lot that one has missed.

 

[biodroid]

I will definitely have to re-read GOTM and DHG. I got the complete series for my Kindle so I need to get cracking. My problem with DHG was I read it too fast for me to take it all in so I forgot most of what happened because it was a blur for me. I set myself a goal of reading 50 pages a day which is a lot for me and try and finish it in about 2 weeks depending if I exceeded my daily goal. I guess I won't do that again because it felt like a chore rather than pure enjoyment of the book.

 

[nixie]

I never set myself targets when reading. I can go from reading 10, 20 pages a day or a whole book depending on my mood. It would either become a chore or I'd be like a junkie looking for a fix.

 

[Lady of Winterfell]

I enjoyed Gardens of the Moon, although I found it confusing my first time through. I have read through House of Chains, and I believe I am done reading them. I found the beginning of House of Chains to be slow, and by the end I just didn't care anymore and skipped pages; I can't even remember the last time I did that. There is just way too much going on in these stories, and frankly I don't have the energy to try and keep it all straight. Most likely I won't pick these up again, but time will tell.