what to expect with a song of fire and ice

[X'Nedra]

Hello
I have run out of ideas for new books to try, and have noticed quite a few people mention the song of ice and fire series, so thought I'd give it a go.

What can I expect from these books? Is there carnage, humour, and interesting characters etc?

Your thoughts about the series would be very much appreciated.
Thanks!

 

[hadd]

I think it should match your criteria perfectly. There's blood, sex, alcohol and as one of the reviews said the characters are so venomous they could eat the Borgias or something, heh.
Basically it has all to keep you hooked and i think there's a very good reason why a lot of people call this one of the best (if not the best) fantasy series!

 

[Clansman]

I take it from your screen name that you are an Eddings fan (also based on some posts I have seen on the Eddings sub-forum).

A series further from Eddings there could not be, except perhaps Steven Erikson's Malazan Book of the Fallen. GRRM's A Song of Ice and Fire is among the best in epic fantasy today, with a very strong cast of very different characters, some of which grow and develop amazingly. The plot is very complex, and very political. Do not expect any happy endings (see the chapters Bran II in A Game of Thrones, or The Red Wedding in A Clash of Kings), and expect to be surprised by plot twists, but don't expect a white knight to ride in just in the nick of time to prevent the damsel from being de-flowered by the bad guys.

Not only will the damsel be de-flowered, she will likely be killed, and the white knight will come and get killed too. This is tough, gritty fantasy that uses a great deal of human reality from our own bloody medieval history to make the story come alive.

If you are up for stuff like this, then this story is for you. Think The Sopranos go to 1066, and you will have this story about right.

 

[Eulalia]

Well Clansman, occasionally a white knight WILL save the damsel's maidenhead, but it will be reluctantly, or in spite of his flaws and he will be full of self mocking .

X'Nedra, please, oh please don't read much more if you want to enjoy these books. Some of the surprises in the books are very well set up and they will lose a lot of impact if they are spoiled. Come and join us when you are done!

This series is awesome.

 

[Boaz]

X'nedra, after reading Tolkien, Eddings was one of the first authors I found. I probably read The Belgariad three times in high school. I enjoyed the great quest the characters undertook. Later I moved along to Raymond Feist's Riftwar Saga. The characters quest against a background of political scheming and divine conflict. Back then I would not have wanted to read GRRM's A Song of Ice and Fire where there are only a few questers among dozens of major characters and where greed and avarice in greater supply than honor and sacrifice.

Tolkien set the stage by telling his stories as mythology from a long, long time ago. Eddings and Feist moved a bit closer to the action, but did not really take the shine off the heroes nor the goodness from the stories. Martin, on the other hand, tells us the story from the characters' points of view... e.g. showing us how the prince and the princess turned out and not giving us a moral embellishment. All in all, there are surprises galore.

And as hadd mentioned, there are great characters. For instance...

If you were ambivalent about King Arthur, you'll like King Robert.

If you liked Guinnevere, then you'll love Catelyn and Sansa.

If you hated Guinnevere, then you'll loooove to hate Cersei.

If you liked Lancelot, then you'll love to hate Jaime while you love the Blackfish.

If you liked C'nedra, then you'll love Arya and you'll love to hate Sansa and Cersei.

If you liked Garion, then you'll like all the sons of Eddard Stark.

If you liked Silk, then you'll love the Imp.

If you liked Bilbo, then you'll love the Imp.

If you liked Gandalf, then you'll love the Imp.

If you are human, then you'll love the Imp.

If you can't guess, I love the Imp!

You know how some series have appendices in the back or lists of characters in the front to assist you in keeping the characters straight? Well, with ASOIAF... forget it. The named characters number in the thousands... Characters with dialogue must tally a thousand... There must be about one hundred characters essential to the story... And the main characters number around three dozen... All in all it is mind boggling.

There are two caveats to beginning the series...

First, GRRM does not make rampant use of non-human races. He does not feature a plethora of battle-wizards and magic swords. There aren't any elves, dwarves, orcs, snarks, or grumpkins... This is not a fairy tale in any way, shape, or form.

Second, Martin takes his time to craft each an every book. It is my understanding that he began writing this story in 1991 as a trilogy. He's been writing for nineteen years and has published four books of a now planned seplogy (Is this a word? If it's not, can I get it trademarked? Uh, what I meant is that GRRM plans on seven books for the series.) Anyway, the books were published in 1996, 1998, 2000, and 20005. The next book should be published in 2011... but we don't know that yet. My warning to you is... If you cannot wait five years between books, then don't get started. My question to you is... Even with a five year wait, how can you not read the best (in my opinion... and I've read The Lord of the Rings about forty times) series out there?

In conclusion... If you're looking for something a little more than a fairy tale, then ASOIAF may be for you. If you're looking for something a lot more than a fairy tale, then ASOIAF is almost assuredly for you. If you're looking for good writing, outstanding storytelling, brilliant characters, and a fantasy story that you could in all conscience recommend to an adult friend who's never read fantasy, then ASOIAF is most definitely for you.

But don't take my word for it, try A Game of Thrones. Pick up a secondhand copy of the paperback, if you're not intrigued by page 85, if you don't think "No waaaaay that just happened!" by page 85, if you don't think "Up Starks! Down Lannisters!" by page 85... then just quit. But you'll miss the absolute shocking moment on page 727.... you'll miss the moment over your lunch break when your co-workers all stare at you as you shout "NOOOOOOOO!!!!" when you read page 727. And most of all you'll realize, "I should have seen page 727 coming... all the signs were there." And then you'll think, "What other signs have I missed? What else is going to happen?!?!" And then you'll be here with us posting, "Do you think?" "What about this?"

Finally, I cannot strongly advise you enough to avoid reading anything more, anywhere regarding ASOIAF. Martin is great at building suspense and you don't want to ruin the surprises... big or small.

 

[The Imp]

Hello
I have run out of ideas for new books to try, and have noticed quite a few people mention the song of ice and fire series, so thought I'd give it a go.

What can I expect from these books? Is there carnage, humour, and interesting characters etc?

Your thoughts about the series would be very much appreciated.
Thanks!

Frist off, PLEASE, do NOT read much in this sub-forum. AVOID refernces to anything Clansman referred to in his post. Don't seek out more info other than you'll find in this particular topic.

The books themselves are as well crafted as you can find in any genre. GRRM is both a great writer and great storyteller, a rare combination IMO. His books are long, but not ponderous, his words are beautiful but not flowery or sappy. Each chapter is written from the point of view (POV) of a specific character. He loves mini-cliffhangers at the end of chapters, and large ones at the end of books. He loves plot twists and has no qualms about killing of characters. The story is very loosely based on the War of the ROses. GRRm is a student of that time period, and it shows in every detail, ranging from what people wore, how they acted, what they ate, etc.

There have been 4 books written so far, with a 5th (of seven) being due, within the next few much (we all hope and pray). It could be the best fantasy series I've ever read, including Tolkien.

 

[CyBeR]

Ok, I have just a single question, since I was oogling this particular series today in the library: is there a certain reading order to these books? (Yeah, call me lazy, I won't mind)
I was looking today through something with a title about Crows or something...and I was tempted to buy the two books since the offer was sweet...but I really wouldn't want to read them in a screwed up order.

 

[xLORDSNOWx]

Ok, I have just a single question, since I was oogling this particular series today in the library: is there a certain reading order to these books? (Yeah, call me lazy, I won't mind)
I was looking today through something with a title about Crows or something...and I was tempted to buy the two books since the offer was sweet...but I really wouldn't want to read them in a screwed up order.

1) A Game Of Thrones
2) A Clash Of Kings
3) A Storm Of Swords
4) A Feast For Crows

You definately want to read them in order. Enjoy!!!!

 

[Boaz]

CyBeR, definitely read them in order.

One of the things that I've appreciated about ASOIAF is that Martin opens the series by hitting the ground running and he does not let up. In contrast, Tolkien takes his time setting up Middle-earth, it's races, it's languages, it's geography, it's histories, and it's flora and fauna. At the time of The Hobbit, there were not many, if any, established fantasy norms where people readily understood halflings, dwarves, wood elves, high elves, and dark elves, etc... I'm not ripping Tolkien, I love Middle-earth. But he had to take the time to set up not only his works but the entire genre of fantasy. This is not something that every other author needs to do now. Some authors still do... they spoon feed their readers... and this turns me off. Martin just starts his story with numerous characters, their houses, their house mottos, their vassals, their servants, their heraldry, ethnic histories, and religions while giving barely cursory explanations. His explanations come in the form of memories of the titled character for that chapter. Martin expects me to turn on my brain when I read his work and I respect that.

 

[Wiggum]

Lol, Boaz. great post.

What they are all saying, just read them in order.

You will probably end up loving the Imp, especially when his shadow cast a vision as large as any king, and he's talking with both Jon and Ghost.

Or the failed breaking of King's Landing, or The Red Wedding.

The Halfhand in the mountains, with Snow standing above him?

Maybe the swim of The Blackfish?

The one armed black smith taking on a giant?

I've touched on a quarter of content, at most.

 

[Boaz]

Wiggs, you mentioned the one armed blacksmith vs. the giant and you mentioned the Blackfish swimming. Now I'll not disagree that those are inspiring moments, but neither actually happen in the narrative. We find out about them both after the fact... and still we rank them as memorable moments... that's a testament to the great story telling going on in ASOIAF.

Other great moments include the Imps trials. Two of the best scenes... period.

The death of the man who did not, in fact, **** gold.

The nuptials to bring together the Lion and the Rose.

"Thaphireth! You foolth!"

"Your meat is bloody tough!"

"The King in the North!"

"I'll send him to you... with a trebuchet."

"Halfman! Halfman! Halfman!"

Hmmmm, it seems all these moments involve either the brothers Lannister or the Greatjon.

 

[southron sword]

Even though X'Nedra and CyBeR would have no idea about these "titles" that Wiggum has said, or these quotes and page numbers that Boaz has mentioned, I still think you should not put this information in your posts. It's taking away some of the excitment. The thrill of reading a particular scene and not having ANY idea that it was coming. Now they may be "waiting" for these moments, these pages. I think the Imp's response was good. I know everyone here gets excited by a new reader, but they want to find things for themselves.

These books are very good, and I've yet to find a person who has read them and been dissapointed.

 

[X'Nedra]

Oooh! Well, this sounds perfect! Even though I love Eddings, I am looking for something a little more... um... gritty. I'm not put off by complicated storylines with thousands of characters whose names I forget - I've been reading wheel of time lately, and I have to say I can't remember anyone's name in that! lol I just try to ignore it and keep reading.

I've bought a copy of Game of Thrones and will start it as soon as I've finished the series I'm currently reading. I'm very much looking forward to it now. Thanks everyone.

 

[Wiggum]

Wiggs, you mentioned the one armed blacksmith vs. the giant and you mentioned the Blackfish swimming. Now I'll not disagree that those are inspiring moments, but neither actually happen in the narrative.

That's why I love the books.

I honestly forgot that neither happened in writing, I've created the narrative in my own muddled head.

"There is no one armed black smith, nor anyone swimming. These are not the characters you are looking for."

 

[Eulalia]

The Smith's last stand is shown more like a crime scene investigation, isn't it, where you fill in the blanks from the positions of the bodies? As well we do see the lead up in detail. Lots of impact in that.

 

[The Imp]

I'm really disappointed at the number of references that have been made to people and events in a thread that should have been spoiler free. IMO, one should start the series looking at a pristine field of snow, without one flake disturbed or out of place. Uncovering/discovering events both great and small is part of what make shtis such a wonderful series. Anyone with a modicum of curiosity could google some of the things mentioned, with disatrous results. I don't mean to be hostile, or to berate anyone, and quite frankly i think a mod should have dleted some of the responses in order to protect the OP, I just want every new reader to be able to share the books as a NEW rfeader, not someone that has been exposed to spoilers that ruined some of the best parts of the series.

I'm going to drink my coffee now and try to feel a bit less grouchy. SOrry if I ofended anyone.

 

[xLORDSNOWx]

I'm really disappointed at the number of references that have been made to people and events in a thread that should have been spoiler free. IMO, one should start the series looking at a pristine field of snow, without one flake disturbed or out of place. Uncovering/discovering events both great and small is part of what make shtis such a wonderful series. Anyone with a modicum of curiosity could google some of the things mentioned, with disatrous results. I don't mean to be hostile, or to berate anyone, and quite frankly i think a mod should have dleted some of the responses in order to protect the OP, I just want every new reader to be able to share the books as a NEW rfeader, not someone that has been exposed to spoilers that ruined some of the best parts of the series.

I'm going to drink my coffee now and try to feel a bit less grouchy. SOrry if I ofended anyone.

Imp, i dont think you're too far off base with how you feel. I agree, more so because the person who turned me on the series kept asking me "Did you get to the part yet? or When you get to this part let me know." I had to basically cut myself off from him until i finished AFFC so we could talk freely. Also, i didnt notice this place until i started looking for questions and theories after re reading some of the books several times. Even after that, i came here and was still a little wet behind the ears so to speak.

I think those who keep posting the left handed subtle spoilers have taken leave of their wits. Sorry, i always wanted to say that!

 

[Eulalia]

Of course, Snow and Imp, I think you are right. (sheepishly)

 

[Boaz]

Of course you guys are correct. No need to apologize. I'm old enough to know better and mature enough to take a rebuke. You can say, "Boaz, you are an ass!" and I'll understand. But to paraphrase someone, "I did warn her not to read anymore."

 

[CyBeR]

Lucky for me I don't read your posts when I see you people start going into details. Of course I may just forget any details I read here until I get the books, but nonetheless, better safe than sorry.
I'm very interested in this series and I would've gotten the first books today if they wouldn't have ran out a while ago. I'll stop by the bookshop in a couple of weeks, see if they arrived again.