Books You Should Like But Don't

[Toby Frost]

A friend of mine once described Neuromancer as a brilliant book that had had a third of its words removed at random. It's a good book with some excellent writing, but I find it worrying how often I caught myself thinking "What exactly is happening here?" That said, the two sequels were great, I thought.

On a general point, I do find it slightly strange when a genre novel (fantasy in particular) is praised for using ideas that have been knocking around in other areas for ages. It's odd how many people praise Martin and Abercrombie simply because they kill off characters and portray war as bad (an idea that's been knocking round literature for a while now), rather than praising them because they write good books.

 

[biodroid]

A friend of mine once described Neuromancer as a brilliant book that had had a third of its words removed at random. It's a good book with some excellent writing, but I find it worrying how often I caught myself thinking "What exactly is happening here?" That said, the two sequels were great, I thought.

On a general point, I do find it slightly strange when a genre novel (fantasy in particular) is praised for using ideas that have been knocking around in other areas for ages. It's odd how many people praise Martin and Abercrombie simply because they kill off characters and portray war as bad (an idea that's been knocking round literature for a while now), rather than praising them because they write good books.

Isn't it maybe because they are going against the norm of typical fantasy like the farm boy becomes the saviour in the end? I thought Abercrombie wrote well and he killed off some characters that I didn't care for really but some of them he beats up pretty bad and those you feel sorry for.

I think they get praised more for their realism rather than what they portray as bad, like for instance you know this guy should be the baddie but you also think the good guy could be a baddie. In other fantasy the bad guy is always evil and wants to destroy the world (I always thought it was cool, but if you destroy all then what do you have left) and the good guy is a supreme swordsman who will fight for the right of the world. Cookie cutter characters.

 

[Lady of Winterfell]

I feel I should have liked all the following because they are so popular, and have been recommended so highly by others (here and elsewhere).

Chronicles of Amber - Couldn't even finish the first story.
American Gods - I really tried with this one but could not get into it. I have been told if you don't like AG you will like his other stories as AG was quite different. I have Stardust on my TBR list so we shall see.
Malazan - I did read the first 4 books before deciding to give up on this series. Just too much going on and I don't have the energy to keep track of it all. And I'm a GRRM fan!
Narnia - I may get expelled from the Chrons for this one, but I have tried many of the stories in the Chronicles of Narnia and haven't really enjoyed any of them. I did enjoy the first movie, so perhaps its just the writing I'm not a fan of.

 

[Toby Frost]

Good point Biodroid. I suppose it is the novelty that makes the "war is hell" theme work in epic fantasy. But there will soon become a point where the genre will have moved on sufficiently for the farmboy cliche will be so old that there's no point riffing on it. Or at least I hope so - how many more naive young swordsmen must discover that medieval warfare is not all puppies and rainbows?

 

[D_Davis]

I guess Game of Thrones. Tried reading it twice, and couldn't get into it. Does it ever become anything more than a historical soap opera? Wasn't even really fantasy, to me, as it seems to lack the fantastic, otherworldly elements. It was like fantasy for people who don't really like fantasy.

 

[D_Davis]

Bloody Pratchett. He's basically been knocking out a smug, unfunny fantasy version of The Life of Brian for what seems like Deca-millenia now. You know, where little gnomes (or whatever) go around saying things like 'Sod it' because its like, you know, nowadays but fantasy, see? And thats why its hilarious, yeah?

And if you scratch at the surface, the Discworld reeks of Daily Mail-esque, Middle England conservatism.

Plus he never gets a round in, so I hear. Bloody Pratchett.

Sorry. I better have a lie down.

Ha! Brilliant.

 

[D_Davis]

George r r martin is the most overrated fantasy author of all time. He doesn't write fantasy. He writes soap operas and most of them don't have plots. They rest entirely on shock value.

Amen to that

He is not terrible but he is overrated because reading soap opera in fantasy form is easy. But his fans act like the series is a masterwork just because its fun to read.....

OK - so I'm not alone!

 

[Zappster]

There are fantasy elements in it. One of the main undercurrents in the series is decidedly supernatural.

I tend to agree with Jeff Vandermeer's thoughts on the books as per his recent blog posts on them:

I wouldn’t call it pulp fiction, Damien. It’s more sophisticated than that. It deals with weighty themes and important decisions and there’s not particularly much soap opera or potboiler to it. We also have to remember Martin’s background in very sophisticated horror fiction, among other forms. I don’t think he’s given enough credit for his writing at the sentence level. It is *very* hard to continually express oneself in fiction in clear fashion when juggling so many characters, or even to continue to adhere to strong, strong verbs throughout. I don’t know many who can do that in genre.

Although I must admit I'm not in a position to fully comment on the quality of writing in such a fashion as the above quote. I also liked the fact he mentioned the horror element, which for whatever reason doesn't seem to get played up as much.

 

[J-WO]

Ha! Brilliant.

Thanks. I'm here all week.

 

[Connavar]

OK - so I'm not alone!

I had same trouble as you it was too much historical soap opera and not fantastic enough. I watch the tv show and its the same problem. I watch it only for Sean Bean really.

Try Malazan books by Erikson he had much more interesting fantasy world he had to invent and not just borrow from medevil england like GRRM.

The subgenre is too fat books, too many character for my taste but i liked Erikson world.

 

[soulsinging]

There are fantasy elements in it. One of the main undercurrents in the series is decidedly supernatural.

I tend to agree with Jeff Vandermeer's thoughts on the books as per his recent blog posts on them:

Although I must admit I'm not in a position to fully comment on the quality of writing in such a fashion as the above quote. I also liked the fact he mentioned the horror element, which for whatever reason doesn't seem to get played up as much.

An undercurrent that is demonstrated in the prologue and appears in maybe 4 chapters over the next 3 books. I don't deny the quality of his writing. He's an excellent prose stylist, very readable. All I'm saying is that for all the grittiness and quadruple crossings, after a few thousand pages the marital and sibling and political squabbling starts to feel like a soap opera, with the overarching supposed "goal" of the series taking a massive backseat to developing a dozen different petty clan feuds that could take a book each to resolve.

 

[Moggle]

I guess Game of Thrones. Tried reading it twice, and couldn't get into it. Does it ever become anything more than a historical soap opera? Wasn't even really fantasy, to me, as it seems to lack the fantastic, otherworldly elements. It was like fantasy for people who don't really like fantasy.

I think this basically describes his books to a tee, and why so many so readers of fantasy appear to like them. Martin's book don't really deserve to be called fantasy.

 

[biodroid]

I guess Game of Thrones. Tried reading it twice, and couldn't get into it. Does it ever become anything more than a historical soap opera? Wasn't even really fantasy, to me, as it seems to lack the fantastic, otherworldly elements. It was like fantasy for people who don't really like fantasy.

I had the same problem, I think I tried AGOT the book about 5 times and just could not get into it but now that I have progressed, the pace has picked up quite a bit and the story is now unfolding a lot faster and is becoming more fantasy like, I am understanding the characters better too. I found that if I do bites of about 20 - 30 pages at a time I get a better picture of what's happening. Most of the chrons mentioned that it's an extended intro to the characters and worlds and the political machinations of it. I do agree about it but there is more to it. There is adventure to one of the most notorious prisons I have ever read about (I am sure there is more adventures). I have read through a few skirmishes and sword fights that just blows away most fantasy authors out the water (except for Gemmell, no one can come close to him on this). I am really getting to worry about certain characters in the book because of what happened to them. The story is developing slower than usual because it is really complex but once you hit about half way you are well on your way to a great story.

I wouldn't say the book is written like a soap opera but more like a TV show where you get your episodic cliffhangers and it affects the overall story arc. I wouldn't say it's like The Bold and the Beautiful but more like Lost, actually the way it unfolds, with the mystery and venomous characters and strange things happening, with a good dose of action and great scenery (like Sawyer being the bad guy trying to redeem himself and then everyone likes him and then he goes back to the bad guy mode).

 

[biodroid]

Good point Biodroid. I suppose it is the novelty that makes the "war is hell" theme work in epic fantasy. But there will soon become a point where the genre will have moved on sufficiently for the farmboy cliche will be so old that there's no point riffing on it. Or at least I hope so - how many more naive young swordsmen must discover that medieval warfare is not all puppies and rainbows?

Hehe "puppies and rainbows", I like that, but what if that puppy turned into Rambo or Rambone

 

[Zappster]

An undercurrent that is demonstrated in the prologue and appears in maybe 4 chapters over the next 3 books. I don't deny the quality of his writing. He's an excellent prose stylist, very readable. All I'm saying is that for all the grittiness and quadruple crossings, after a few thousand pages the marital and sibling and political squabbling starts to feel like a soap opera, with the overarching supposed "goal" of the series taking a massive backseat to developing a dozen different petty clan feuds that could take a book each to resolve.

That's fair enough. I was partly posting that in response to the "fans act like its a masterwork just because its fun to read...." that Connavar posted. I couldn't let that type of blanket statement pass. Just like the statements about it not being a fantasy.

 

[Moggle]

I had the same problem, I think I tried AGOT the book about 5 times and just could not get into it but now that I have progressed, the pace has picked up quite a bit and the story is now unfolding a lot faster and is becoming more fantasy like, I am understanding the characters better too. I found that if I do bites of about 20 - 30 pages at a time I get a better picture of what's happening. Most of the chrons mentioned that it's an extended intro to the characters and worlds and the political machinations of it. I do agree about it but there is more to it. There is adventure to one of the most notorious prisons I have ever read about (I am sure there is more adventures). I have read through a few skirmishes and sword fights that just blows away most fantasy authors out the water (except for Gemmell, no one can come close to him on this). I am really getting to worry about certain characters in the book because of what happened to them. The story is developing slower than usual because it is really complex but once you hit about half way you are well on your way to a great story.

I wouldn't say the book is written like a soap opera but more like a TV show where you get your episodic cliffhangers and it affects the overall story arc. I wouldn't say it's like The Bold and the Beautiful but more like Lost, actually the way it unfolds, with the mystery and venomous characters and strange things happening, with a good dose of action and great scenery (like Sawyer being the bad guy trying to redeem himself and then everyone likes him and then he goes back to the bad guy mode).

Unfortunately, as you begin to read books 2 and on, you'll see that it's exactly like LOST, but without a central plot to tie all the characters together. Imagine LOST, but with virtually all the characters seperated on the island and never crossing paths.

 

[biodroid]

Unfortunately, as you begin to read books 2 and on, you'll see that it's exactly like LOST, but without a central plot to tie all the characters together. Imagine LOST, but with virtually all the characters seperated on the island and never crossing paths.

Does it go downhill after book 1?

 

[soulsinging]

Does it go downhill after book 1?

Most would say it improves up until book 3, then drops off a cliff in book 4 (exactly like Jordan). But starting in book 2 the characters do scatter to the four winds and seem no closer to any sort of resolution at the end of the last book than they were at the start of book one.

I found book one and the first half of the second book to be kind of slow, but from there until the end of book 3 were pretty exciting. Then book 4 killed it for me. That's when I realized it was devolving into soap opera.

 

[slack]

The Catcher in the Rye.

Unlike many, I wasn't forced to read this in high school. I get it -- the contradictory nature of Holden Caulfield, he hates phonies and yet he is a phony, and so on -- but after 115 pages of waiting for a plot to emerge and not seeing any signs of life, I had to call it quits.

 

[soulsinging]

The Catcher in the Rye.

Unlike many, I wasn't forced to read this in high school. I get it -- the contradictory nature of Holden Caulfield, he hates phonies and yet he is a phony, and so on -- but after 115 pages of waiting for a plot to emerge and not seeing any signs of life, I had to call it quits.

Completely agree. I read this on my own first, then later for school. I've always thought it the most overrated book ever. Just 200 pages of him whining. I just wanted Holden to shut up.