e-books, hardbacks or paperbacks our thoughts.

[antiloquax]

@Vertigo - thank goodness it's not just me! I thought I'd cracked it by trying to makes sure all the "author" fields in the metadata were formatted the same way but it still wouldn't play nice. I've decided to live with it (for now... ).

On a bit of a tangent ... I remember feeling a bit surprised by the emphasis on physical books in Solaris. Kelvin spends quite a lot of time in the library reading heft tomes of Solarist studies. I'm not criticising Lem for failing to predict that books would be on computers, I just remember wondering how much all those books weighed and the practicalities of taking them with you into space. Mind you, if you have a FTL "drive", maybe such things don't matter so much ...

There are big "libraries" in Greg Bear's Eonalso - although most of the data there is held on the computer.

Some readers might be interested in the book Double Fold by Nicholson Baker. In it he explores the fact that microfilming books and newspaper collections (and these days "digitising" them) often results in the destruction of the original book / newspaper. And the microfilm copies were often very poor quality, black and white only etc. Those of us who are ereaders know that OCR has its limitations .

It is surely inevitable that we will read and store books electronically more and more in the years to come. Which is not to say that our books "are dead". I think we'll come to see them in a similar way to the record collections of vinyl afficionados.
a

 

[antiloquax]

Oh yes, the other thing that Baker says is that libraries (under huge pressure to find space for ever-expanding collections) have a tendency to sell-off or destroy copies of things that have been micro-filmed or digitised. When you consider that these versions are often poor quality, this is a real problem (especially for those doing research using old colour newspapers).
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[steve12553]

I really think the transition to an all digital world is going to take at least a couple of generation. Living in fear of the big EMP will keep hard copies of everything until something is invented the guarentees it won't fail. I appreceate the convenience of the ereader but I love the look and feel of a hard back book.

 

[Vertigo]

I really think the transition to an all digital world is going to take at least a couple of generation. Living in fear of the big EMP will keep hard copies of everything until something is invented the guarentees it won't fail. I appreceate the convenience of the ereader but I love the look and feel of a hard back book.

It's already happening now and I think the pace will pickup significantly over the next few years, though I certainly wouldn't try to put a timescale on it.

As Antiloquax says libraries are destroying hard copy now as they are moved to digital media. They simply do not have the space to keep it all and certainly cannot afford the climate control conditions to keep all that hard copy in anything like good condition. Also modern digital storage media is actually much more robust than hard copy even in the case of some catastrophic EMP event. Both because much is stored on optical storage and also because backups are easily maintained.

The aesthetics of hard copy books is largely irrelevant; look back over the last 100 years and you will see a steady triumph (if that's the right word) of practical over aesthetic in all walks of life; achitecture, engineering, furniture, clothing, recorded music and video, vehicles.... The list is endless, where pragmatic practical design is taken over from elaborate heavily decorated design. I see absolutely no reason for book not to follow suit. Yes, there are many now who prefer hard copy books but the generation of kids growing up now will take ebooks for granted, just like they now take things like mobile phones for granted. They will not have the same attachement to printed books that is still prelevant today.

 

[Dave]

Living in fear of the big EMP will keep hard copies of everything until something is invented the guarentees it won't fail.

Is that really your greatest fear of the after-effects of a nuclear conflict?

It's already happening now and I think the pace will pickup significantly over the next few years, though I certainly wouldn't try to put a timescale on it.

....recorded music and video.

If you have teenagers you simply need to look at how many CDs they own, and compare it to the Vinyl and CDs you owned at the same age. All their music is stored electronically. (Though my son has started buying Vinyl for some reason.)

And although I do own a lot of DVDs (and British males are unusual in that respect, as we apparently have some collector-instinct going on and are also the first to embrace new home entertainment tech like Blue Ray) that fact it that changes in technology (VHS -> DVD -> Blue Ray -> the next big thing) are outstripping my ability to collect and making downloading of films a far more economical alternative.

So, I think that is a good analogy. It won't be 'several generations' before it is acceptable, probably only one; it only needs my generation to move over. It also saves trees, and less paper recycling and printing means less water pollution.

 

[Waiting]

In one of the first science fiction stories I ever read people were "teleported"
around from place to place by walking through the "Door". Houses also had a
"door", but it was never used.

One day the "Door" in one young boy's house wasn't working, and being late
for school, he used the "door". The "door" led outside where he discovered
wonderous things - trees, flowers, grass, fresh air, sunlight, birds, insects...

To his parents and teacher, his behavior became worrisome, he started
coming home dirty, was always late to school.

He was assigned a mental health worker to "fix" him. Instead, the mental
health worker became captivated by the world outside the "door", too.

I pity the poor child of the year 2016 who has never had the experience of
holding a Dr. Seuss book made of paper and ink.

I pity anybody who thinks Wii bowling is bowling. Or who thinks those 237
people on his/her facebook page are his/her "friends". Or any adult with a
twitter account.

 

[Perpetual Man]

I love the sentiment Waiting.

One thing, a saving grace at least for the moment comes from children's book.

My little boy loves having stories read to him at night, and one of the things he really enjoys is not just the story, but the pictures that come with it and the turning of pages!

As yet there is no way to turn the pages on an e-reader, no large e-reader in colour, nothing that catches that 'magic' feeling of a parent and child sitting together at the end of the day and reading a book together.

He also is fascinated by the book cases and books that fill the house, and often takes a novel from the shelf and pretends to read it, just as he has seen daddy doing.

Although he will grow up in a world where e-readers and i-pads are common place, I'm hoping the love of physical books will slow their disappearance slighty, if only because the kids of today, whose parents read to them, will have the memories that mean that when it is their turn, with their children, they will want to sit on the bed and read in the way they were read to.

(Hope that makes sense)

 

[Perpetual Man]

As I finished the above post I had another thought, a not so positive one on the future of books.

I can see in the near future a time when kids will be expected to supply an e-reader when they start school. All books, text and otherwise will be downloaded into the reader. It saves on what they have to carry and the school having to provide physical material, which of course, saves their already strapped budget.

Sigh

 

[Dave]

I can see in the near future a time when kids will be expected to supply an e-reader when they start school. All books, text and otherwise will be downloaded into the reader. It saves on what they have to carry and the school having to provide physical material, which of course, saves their already strapped budget.

You're way too late PM. They were discussing this very subject on LBC Radio last Thursday morning. A school is requiring that the parents of all children either buy an I-Pad 3 or else the child borrows one from a communal stock.

I also like the sentiments shown here, but just to play Devils Advocate for a moment - Do you not think that is all it is; being sentimental about real books? Don't you feel like some modern day Luddite for baulking against the progress of technology? Don't you feel old-fashioned - like my great grandmother complaining about "the box!" (television) and everyone going goggle-eyed!

 

[Perpetual Man]

Yes. I want to be a cumudgeon!

(Of course I do love my technology, and my e-reader, but want there to be a place for both)

 

[Metryq]

As yet there is no way to turn the pages on an e-reader, no large e-reader in colour

Say what? If there were no way to turn pages, ebooks would be a non-starter. Or are you arguing that there is something inherently "better" about flipping a cellulose page than an electronic page change? Some e-readers graphically emulate a paper page turn very well, but I don't see what that has to do with the content.

As for color, many e-readers have it. One could argue any number of beginning points for e-readers since the time computers started displaying text on a screen. Adobe's PDF, still widely in use today, was one of the earliest formats to bridge the gap between paper and electronic books by maintaining the same appearance across all platforms, as well as in print.

There are plenty of e-reader apps for desktop/laptop computers. The significance of Kindles and iPads and other "tablets" is that the technology and price have finally reached the tipping point to make them popular. The document formats will quickly evolve, along with the hardware, until ebooks supersede any paper book. Ebooks already surpass paper books in many ways: support for embedded audio and video, built-in dictionaries, hyperlinking to other sources, even "social networking" of highlights and notes from other readers.

The one area where ebooks still fall short is size and resolution. I have many "art" books that simply cannot be emulated on current ebooks. Physical readers will increase in resolution—like the Apple iPhones already sporting "Retina Displays" and the coming generation of iPads rumored to have the new higher resolution screens. Even then, resolution isn't everything. I don't carry around these big "coffee table" books, so perhaps others won't expect portability from electronic art books. Perhaps one will sit in front of the HDTV at home while the tablet streams to the bigger screen. (This sort of streaming already exists.) If one wants portability, then one will have to settle for the smaller screen with zooming and panning—or maybe someone will develop a new display technology that projects into open air, like R2-D2's holograms, or even directly onto one's retina ("augmented reality").

The current state of ebooks and readers is not the end point, it is only the beginning, or at least the most recent threshold in a continuing evolution. In the transition from clay to papyrus there was probably someone grousing about the disadvantages of having to pound the reeds and mix the ink, while clay could be used right away!

Don't worry, the technology gestapo are not going to be busting down your door and taking away your magical, paper books.

 

[steve12553]

I don't expect the technology gestapo anytime soon, either. The technology used is based on the electronic minaturization the has been going on for the last few decades. Much of it is good. I like that my vehicle tells me that I have a problem with my brakes well before I hear the grind of metal on metal. Books wll always be dear to the heart of the dedicated reader but the ereader also helps preserve the books in ore ways than before. If you have a book stored in a file in multiple places, it can always be printed from the file. Your file kept on someones server can be recalled even if your home library suffers the horror of a fire. (That's almost too scary to write). As I've said many times before, I'll read anwhere I can find a printed word.

 

[Vertigo]

Steve, that of course is more or less what happened to Gully's library. Not a fire but the recent Australian floods. I think he lost most if not all of his books. Desperately sad.

Perpetual Man consider the future of ebooks for reading to kids at bedtime. They will be full colour and will probably have fully animated illustrations. So after reading a bit you don't just show your kid a picture but they gets to see that page of the book being acted out. My real worry is that parents will get lazy and stop reading to their kids and just loading some cartoons onto their player and leaving them to it. Now that would be truly sad.

I agree that doesn't somehow seem as cozy and intimate as reading a real book, but I'm sure that's only because we are still not used to it and, lets face it, until 15 years ago you hardly ever saw a computer in someones home (beyond a Sinclair or BBC or Commodore), consequently we still tend to view that sort of technology as cold and work related and certainly not cozy and intimate. This again will change as devices like that become ever more established as leisure devices not just work tools.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

I sincerely doubt that I will ever buy an e-reader myself. I like having the physical book, I distrust the technology (with my luck, whichever one I chose to buy would become obsolete in a few years, ... and besides, reading things on a screen is hard on my eyes.

Regarding the first, I actually used to feel the same way. eBooks? No thanks. Until I really saw what it's like, and all the conveniences of having your collection in a package you can fit inside your pocket (or at least your purse). Give it a whirl. You might like it.

The tech you don't have to worry about. Neither ePub nor Amazon's Kindle (the two dominant formats) are going anywhere any time soon. Besides, you can always backup/convert your ebooks so it wouldn't be an issue. And as for the screen? The screen in all these devices now is one called "eInk". It's not a backlit or reflective screen like an LCD monitor on your PC (the two main reasons why it would be hard on your eyes). It's matte and grayscale, and does a remarkable job of replicating the look of a printed book. Again, try it out, and I think you'll be surprised.

But I have finally overcome my resistance to publishing my books as e-books, and I will be doing that with Goblin Moon, though I'm not sure which formats yet.

Well, you've already made the plunge, whether you are aware of it or not! Your "The Rune of Unmaking" books are available on the Kindle Store. In fact, I just bought them.

As for the formats, it's easy: Kindle (AZW) for the masses that use Amazon's store, and ePub for everyone else.

c). once you purchase the ebook does it have a shelf-life or do you keep the copy on your system til the day dot without it self-imploding?

For the most part, no. But it depends. If the format that you bought it in is kaput, then new devices won't support it, thereby preventing you from accessing it. But, as stated by Vertigo, it's not too hard to strip your ebook's DRM and convert it into virtually any format you want. You can also make copies for your archive this way, and not have to depend on the store. The process is really not that difficult; I can't mention it here as it is somewhat illegal (though it really shouldn't be) but it can be found pretty easily on Google. Alternatively, if you want you can PM me and I can let you know.

I really think the transition to an all digital world is going to take at least a couple of generation.

As Vertigo and Dave have stated, it has already begun. I don't have the link with me right now, but Amazon stated a couple of months ago that sales of their Kindle ebooks (and not the freebies; they specifically mentioned that) have overtaken the sales of print (both paperback and hardcover).

As yet there is no way to turn the pages on an e-reader, no large e-reader in colour, nothing that catches that 'magic' feeling of a parent and child sitting together at the end of the day and reading a book together.

Well, as far as large ereaders go, there are devices like the iPad. And there are several devices that have a color touchscreen, so that shouldn't be an issue either. If the iPad is a tad too big and heavy (or expensive) for you, Barnes & Noble's Nook Color seems like a good option. In fact, one of it's key features that B&N marketed at the time of release was... children's books!

 

[Perpetual Man]

Well, as far as large ereaders go, there are devices like the iPad. And there are several devices that have a color touchscreen, so that shouldn't be an issue either. If the iPad is a tad too big and heavy (or expensive) for you, Barnes & Noble's Nook Color seems like a good option. In fact, one of it's key features that B&N marketed at the time of release was... children's books!

I know that there are colour e-readers out there, but not too sure whether they are as big as some of the children's books, showing off the wonderful colour pictures that many of them have. Of course technology will get there in the end.

When it comes to page turning (someone mentioned earlier) obviously you can 'turn' pages on an e-reader, but not physically...

But one other thing occurs to me, this is more for the true fans of particular authors...

Can you sign an e-reader?

 

[Vertigo]

But one other thing occurs to me, this is more for the true fans of particular authors...

Can you sign an e-reader?

Now there's an interesting point and currently I would say a failing of the ebook. I wonder if there is any way an equivalent to book signing could be set up? Unfortunately I rather suspect not.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Maybe it's not the same as having a physical book signed, but... there's something called a Kindlegraph.

Also, many ereaders nowadays allow you to make and save notes on your ebooks. A version of that tech should be able to allow you to get it autographed.

Why not?

 

[Perpetual Man]

I don't think it is quite the same yet, but it shows the technology is there, and that kindlegraph is really quite amazing!

 

[Metryq]

It's simple—you use the e-reader's camera to photograph (or video) you and the author together. After all, the autograph is nothing more than a memento of meeting the author. I've never understood the significance of collecting autographs of people one has not met, but people do it; at best, a leather-bound "collector's edition" should be endorsement enough of the creator's work.

Or perhaps the "touched by human hands" factor is why some dislike ebooks? Paper books are mass produced by machines, too, but an autograph shows that the author personally touched that copy...

 

[D_Davis]

Right now, I'm really into collecting vintage Ace and Pyramid books for their great cover art.

And I will get an e-reader soon. This will be used mainly for when I am traveling or on the go. Right now the books I like to read are still cheaper to buy used than they are in any e-format. As e-formatted books become cheaper than used books, I might start using the e-reader more, but I will still collect vintage books.