The X-Men (1963)

[Yog-Sothoth]

^Juggernaut is X's stepbrother. Also, didn't the Gladiator neutralise the Juggernaut with one fist? I think I remember seeing that in the cartoon version of the Phoenix Saga.

But Sentinels only hunt mutants...
Wait a minute

 

[Perpetual Man]

Dear X-Men Xpert,
This has been bugging me for years, and study of the Internet has not yielded an answer....
In 1990ish, a friend lent me about 30 issues of X-Men. Unfortunately, the last one ended on a cliffhanger and I never found out what happened subsequently. Some...creatures, maybe from another dimension, took on the X-Men and kicked their asses. It looked like mankind was doomed, until only Longshot stood in their way.
What happened next?

Uh-oh, the first real question and it's a real test (made worse by not being able to connect to the Chronicles for at least 12 hours). The 90's were a real busy time for the X-Men, going bi-monthly, with major shake-ups coming for most of the X-titles.

Fortunately Longshot was not really an X-Man for long and in a fairly linear capacity (he did not jump from title to title). I think he left in late 1989/1990 so the story you are talking about must have been about this time. It was a very grim and dark time for the X-Men, even the writing was growing darker, so I've just got to work out which story you are referring to. There are a number of stories that seem to fit, although none that I can remember straight off the top of my head with Longshot being the last man standing as it were...

Can you remember anything more about the bad guys, or who else was on the team at the time? If not I'll start stabbing at the ones I know and see if any of them fit with your memories.

But Sentinels only hunt mutants...
Wait a minute

Exactly what I was thinking

I'm curious to know when Marvel started tying most of the mutants together through family. Like Perp said, originally Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch had no ties to Magneto, but they eventually enf up becoming his kids. Similarly, either the Juggernaut or the Blob are related to Professor X (I can never remember which).

The relationship between Juggernaut and Prof X has been there since Juggernaut was first introduced, step brother/half brother. (Jugs is not technically a mutant though). I'm pretty sure there were hints that Wanda and Pietro were Magneto's kids from the word go, but was not revealed until a lot later. The relationships did not really start kicking off until a lot later, but when they did they were natural progressions of ongoing stories. It's only when we look back now that we realize how complex they've become.

Which brings me to an entirely different question: Who wins when the Juggernaut and the Blob fight? The Blob is the unmovable object, and the Juggernaut can't be stopped once he gains momentum so what happens when he charges the Blob?

A long standing question, that I'd like to thing Juggernaut would win - as long as he was at maximum power. Blob has been knocked off his feet a number of times, generally when the ground has been moved from under him - I'm guessing the impact of a fully empowered might not knock Blob off his feet, but into the ground. (Jean Grey has lifted Blob off the ground, Wolverine whilst being sat on extended his claws and made Blob jump off , Cyclops has blasted the ground out from beneath him, and perhaps best of all Cyclops, when really pissed off, narrowed his eyes so the beam came out needle thin, but with full blast intensity. Punched right through Blob's arm and out the other side. The Blob fainted)

^Juggernaut is X's stepbrother. Also, didn't the Gladiator neutralise the Juggernaut with one fist? I think I remember seeing that in the cartoon version of the Phoenix Saga.

It's quite possible, I'm not sure that it has ever happened in the comics, but the way Gladiator has been portrayed and his power levels, I think he might be powerful enough to stop the Juggernaut, maybe not with one punch.

 

[alchemist]

Can you remember anything more about the bad guys, or who else was on the team at the time? If not I'll start stabbing at the ones I know and see if any of them fit with your memories.

Sorry PM, it's dim and distant. The baddies were powerful, possibly from another dimension. There may have been a lot of red in the artwork/red skies/a portal in the sky. Longshot was knocked out early on, presumed dead or inactive, but then reappeared in the last couple of frames.
Can't remember any of the team-mates either. I had a look at his bio on wikipedia, and unfortunately, nothing clicked.
Don't be wasting time on this now, you probably have better things to be doing.

 

[Perpetual Man]

It's okay, the red sky might have been the one bit I needed!

 

[Heck Tate]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phalanx_(comics) These guys first showed up in 1994, look familiar at all? I know there's several different species of aliens in the Marvel universe so try to figure out which one you saw.

 

[Perpetual Man]

Right, I just wanted to check something, and am now ready (at last), I've narrowed it down to two stories I think it could have been - there are a few others, but these two strike me as being the most likely. I'm working on the principle that if you read the comics about 1990, then they could actually be from before that.

The two stories that spring to mind are Fall of the Mutants and (more likely from what I've got) Inferno. So does this sound familiar...

The demons of Limbo have invaded, instigating a master plan that will see Earth merged with the demonic realm. Centered on the Empire state building New York is slowly transformed into a demonic parody of itself, the skies turned red with imps and other monsters loose on the streets, the sky turned red. The leader of the Demons, is joined by the embittered and empowered wife of Cyclops, Madeline Pryor now become The Goblin Queen whose plan culminates with the sacrifice of their son...

If this rings no bells at all, the chances are the story you are talking about came before, as Longshot leaves a few issues later...

Heck Tate - my immediate thought was the Phalanx as well, but they turned up after Longshot had left the team...

 

[alchemist]

Thanks Heck and PM. Inferno sounds like it alright. New York was involved, now that you mention it. Good work. So, er, what happened?

 

[Perpetual Man]

The end of Inferno:

There is a lot more going on than just the Demon invasion, Mr. Sinister is working against the X-Men, trying to get hold of Nathan Summers (Cyclops son) and Jean Grey; while this is going on Madeline Pryor has become the Goblin Queen, and driven mad by the realization that she is nothing more than a clone of Jean Grey tries to take on and destroy the real deal, somehow (possibly drawing on the Phoenix force) Jean kills her, absorbing all her memories and personality, effectively regaining the life that she took form her, when she married Scott.

The X-Men with X-Factor, defeat the demon and seal the breach between Limbo and Earth, it is then that they locate Mr. Sinister. They return to the mansion to interrogate one of Sinister's marauders, Malice who is possessing Polaris, and Psylocke tries to separate Malice from her. The mansion suddenly explodes, the X-Men are knocked out, Mr Sinister arrives and claims Jean.

And then, then Longshot turns up.

Which is where Alchemist ran out of story!

 

[Perpetual Man]

Now the reason you probably did not get to see the end of the story is because it did not continue in the X-Men, but jumped titles into X-Factor, the problems with a multi-part crossover:

Longshot does not hesitate but leaps into action, holding off Mr. Sinister, long enough for Beast to arrive, the two get involved in a massive fight - Malice and Sinister against Beast and Longshot. It seems as though the two X-Men will be overpowered, but Cyclops slowly recovers, he tries to use his optic blasts, but they won't work and through a series of flashbacks we learn that from the moment he was orphaned, Mr Sinister has manipulated his life, seeing in Cyclops a major key to his ongoing experimentation. But there was a cost Sinister, normally invulnerable was extremely susceptible to the optic blasts, and to protect himself he put a mental/hypnotic block in Cyclops head.

As Cyclops frustration builds, the other X-Men start to recover, but seem to be powerless against Sinister; Havoc (Cyclops' brother) tried to blast Sinister, but his power is useless, so instead he turns it on Cyke, knowing that his power cannot harm his brother, instead supercharges him, but he still cannot fire on Sinister.

Ready to make a run for it Sinister grabs Jean, which causes the anger and frustration in Cyclops to overwhelm him, shattering the hypnotic barrier and release a single unstoppable blast, which hits Sinister full on tearing him to pieces.

The X-Men leave, returning to their base in Australia.

 

[alchemist]

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[Perpetual Man]

A new era launched with X-Men 20, as comics legend Roy Thomas took control of the writing, Jay Gavin on art chores, followed by Werner Roth and Don Heck.

Thomas was genuinely one of the top writers of the time and is rightly considered to be a legend today. But he did not quite hit the mark to start with on the X-Men. Perhaps there was something about the title, about the premise that made it hard to pin down, it was certainly different to the other comics out there, so maybe it took him a while to find his stride.

The early issues seemed to be trying to pull away from the Lee earlier issues, although the first issue brought a return of Lucifer. Even then though, it just seemed to be filling in unneeded blanks from Xavier's past, and introducing a bigger bad guy behind Lucifer, and apparently killed him off. A number of other villains are introduced, missing some of the flair of the earlier foes, Count Nefaria and his Ani-Men, The Locust, El Tigre who became Kukulcan. Along side these came guest appearances from othe villains of the Marvel Universe, The Puppet Master and Super Adaptroid (copied the powers of the Avengers) with more villains to boot, The Colbat Man, The Warlock (Merlin) and the return of The Juggernaut - again with unneeded flashbacks.

However - there were hints of Thomas really finding his feet, hints of a larger organisation, Factor Three working against the X-Men, they free the Juggernaut in the first place but the most important thing was the introduction of an apparent Factor Three operative The Banshee!

After a run in with the Mole Man and Tyrannus, Thomas began to hit his stride, starting his first major multi part story, as the X-Men went up against Factor Three. With the leader of the team revealed to be The Mutant Master, with operatives Banshee and Ogre perhaps for the first time the X-Men began to show glimmers of it's potential.

Although the main stories were not really above average, Thomas had a knack for the personal, playing up the X-Men's relationships, briging surprising developments along the way, Jean leaving the team to go to college, Calvin Ranking (the Mimic) being there, Cyclops accidently wounding Angel and sidelining - but Angel blaming him for it; Mimic rejoining the team, then losing his powers, Professor X building something to help him walk, then losing it again, Quicksilver and the Scarlet Witch being offered the chance to join the team, but deciding to remain Avengers, a lot of good stuff.

The final showdown with Factor Three pulls out all the stops, Xavier has been kidnapped, the X-Men are on their own, backs to the wall, they win, with the help of Banshee, working for Factor Three under duress they manage to save the day, rescue Xavier and return home.

But there is a twist.

Xavier feels that the X-Men have performed stupendously, that they are not really students any more, that they are a team in their own right. The time for simple matching uniforms is a thing of the past, and the team are given individual costumes, and the X-Men take another small step forward.



This brings the issue count up to 39, and as of 38 the lead story drops in size to allow for a backup strip - the X-Men origins. I'll mention these in the next segment..

 

[Clansman]

A new era launched with X-Men 20, as comics legend Roy Thomas took control of the writing, Jay Gavin on art chores, followed by Werner Roth and Don Heck.

I take it you mean "The Uncanny X-Men 20"... The title "X-Men" was not used until that spin-off title was created in the 1990s. You had me confused for a moment...

 

[Perpetual Man]

I take it you mean "The Uncanny X-Men 20"... The title "X-Men" was not used until that spin-off title was created in the 1990s. You had me confused for a moment...

Funny you should mention that Clansman, just to confuse the issue (if you excuse the pun) the comic currently called Uncanny X-Men was originally just X-Men, it became the All New, All Different X-Men before adopting the title Uncanny in the 70's, really confusing the issue is that the longest running X-title is referred to as Uncanny, but it was originally just X-Men (Here's the cover of 20!)

 

[Contrary Mary]

I read the original X-men from issue #1 on. (Too bad I did not keep them, right?)

I read Marvel almost esclusively from 1965 to about 1971.

I enjoyed the X-men----but I stopped reading comics regularly when the story arcs became so long and confusing.

 

[devilsgrin]

aaah the long and convoluted story arcs are what made X-Men the highest selling comics of the 80s... i love the depth of character shown in these books. So many of the books with a smaller cast struggle to get the characterisation that the x-men in their multitudes have.

 

[Perpetual Man]

aaah the long and convoluted story arcs are what made X-Men the highest selling comics of the 80s... i love the depth of character shown in these books. So many of the books with a smaller cast struggle to get the characterisation that the x-men in their multitudes have.

The very same reason that pushed people away from the X-Men ironically, but it obviously drew more in and I loved it.

Incidently I missed something quite important in my run through of the first 19 issues (naughty PM). In 11 there is a run in with Magneto when both he and the X-Men go after a powerful mutant called the Stranger. Turns out the Stranger is in fact an alien judging humanity and Magneto fails, is imprisoned and whisked away to the alien's homeworld. He escapes in time for 17, but is caught again and whisked off once more!

 

[Heck Tate]

Ha! Magneto when will you learn?

I've seen different kinds of aliens pop up throughout the Marvel Universe but I feel that they don't like to introduce non-human characters (assuming mutants ARE human) as good guys. Everytime I've seen an alien in the Marvel Universe it's out to destroy humanity or capture some humans for slave labor or something. This is the only time I've heard about a Marvel alien doing something good for humans, although judging humanity does sound ominous.

 

[Perpetual Man]

The Stranger did not seem to be a bad guy, he judges Magneto to be evil and a threat to the people of the planet and whisks him away.

But... (just to back up your point really) I'm pretty sure he was later revealed to be one of the big powers of the Universe (like Eternity) so above concepts like good or bad.

 

[Perpetual Man]

X-Men 40 - 42

A very short grouping this time, but another major turning point in the life of the X-Men comic. The writing is still down to Roy Thomas, with art by Don Heck, the first issue has the feel of a filler, quite basically the X-Men vs Frankenstein ('s monster).

The next two issues are a lot better, and groundbreaking, as the team comes under attack from a being called Grotesk The Sub Human. This is a giant member of an ancient extinct race, something has woken him from an age long slumber, and the Earth that has meant to be sterilized is thriving with life - life that according to Grotesk has to be removed.

He wins an underground battle with the X-Men, and heads after a device that can destroy all life on the planet, ultimately the device is deactivated, but in the process blows up, killing Grotesk, and knocking Professor X out, but instead of recovering his heart begins to slow, and he reveals that the reason that he has been pushing the team so hard is due to an unspecified illness. Ultimately it would have killed him, but the explosion has sped it up.

Professor X dies in Angel's arms.

In addition to this there are a series of back-up strips running through the issues, the origins of the X-Men, written initially by Roy Thomas, then Gary Friedrich, with art by Werner Roth. This is the first time we see some retroactive story telling, giving background to the characters.

Scott Summers, an orphan, with no control over his powers, bullied and alienated who runs from his life, ultimately falling in with an evil mutant (The Living Diamond), he is rescued by Professor X, and becomes the first X-Man.

Bobby Drake, a small town boy, living a normal life with his parents, apart from the fact he has mutant powers. When he uses them in public he becomes the target of prejudice and hate. locked up and looking like he might be facing prison he is freed by Cyclops, and Professor X uses his FBI contacts to get Bobby's name cleared and becomes the second X-Man.

Hank McCoy might have over large hands and feet, but he fits right in, intelligent and a better than average athlete his school just loves him. He can't do anything wrong, until he is noted and targeted by the Conquistador. Slowly being dragged toward a life of crime, he is rescued by the X-Men and joins the team.

Warren Worthington III is a spoiled rich kid, who just happens to have wings growing on his back. He becomes the superhero, the Avenging Angel. Unsuccessful to say the least, he initially resists the offer to join the X-Men, but realizing he is not doing well on his own he accepts the offer and joins the team.

Poor old Jean Grey does not get an origin tale.

 

[J Riff]

I used to run a comic store, and the 'new' X-men craze took me totally by surprise. I'd owned all the originals- from No. 1 up until maybe a few issues past the Juggernaut's first appearance. X-Men was a later Marvel addition- in the sixties it was easy to get them all, whereas SpiderMan and FF were already becoming hard to find.
Anyway, before I realized what was happening, someone swiped ALL the new X-men comics from the store. A week later I looked at the new price guide and nearly had a heart attack. Still haven't read any of them. )