A Kingdom Besieged may contain SPOILERS

Ahhh yeah, they did go on about some history points a few times. Once or twice should be enough and then let them stand alone.

I don't mind "Child" coming back. I expect Pug will be pretty angry at the Gods to doing that to "Child" though. I can even understand it to a certain extent since "Child" was killed by something which could take it's memories to the being that would become "Child" (if that makes sense).

I can't make sense of the Male though. Maybe he's vital for the last couple of books but I though he was wrapped up and sent off in a relatively complete manner so it feels like they're cheating consequences a bit here.

Never-the-less, I still loved this book. Feist was really feeling like he's lost something after the Conclave of Shadows series. I know a lot of people didn't like that series but I think it was the Dark War and Demon War series with such glaring inconsistencies and story problems that really brought it down. A Kingdom Besieged was a real pick-up for the most part (But I do wonder who that woman Jimmy chased at the start was *shrug*).
 
Inconsistency

Spotted one small inconsistency.

In "Rides a Dread Legion", page 38 of the hardback, Sandreena mentions that she dealt with the 2nd son of the Duke of Crydee who carried his name, Henry, and was better known as Hal.

In "A Kingdon Besieged" Hal is the 1st son... Unless I missed some mention that the first son had died *shrug*
 
How does the "revelation" at the end of AKB, tie in with Pug's deal with Lims-Kragma?


I agree about Feist's insistence on making us read the same characters history in every chapter. Mention it once or twice if need be, but don't clog up the book with it.
 
As to Pug's deal with Lims-Kragma.

This is just my guess but the revelations are supposedly Ban-ath's doing and he's a rule breaker so I guess he doesn't care if pug is supposed to suffer or not.

Just 'cos their back doesn't mean they can't die again and the method of retrieval seemed pretty cruel. They may still be demons under all that.

Just as Ban-ath can't see into the 2nd realm, I doubt he could see into the 5th, so I guess this was a way for him to gather information again, since he knows something is going on down there with the Dread.

Heck, Maybe this is where the Dread entered the 5th realm long ago and it managed to jump to the 4th realm somehow without devouring the entire place. Whatever the case, there seems to be easy access from the 5th realm to the 1st with summoning and demon gates, etc. Maybe the Dread are looking to make that leap from the 5th realm.

Whatever the case, the two characters have a wealth of demon knowledge from the demons they've eaten so that'll be a quick addition to the main cast's knowledge considering how slowly they've been progressing, even with the two demon masters.
 
You'd think I'd keep away till I actually finished the book:rolleyes:

I'm guessing the child is Miranda, also seems Belog used to be someone else from a remark he made to child. I thought Macros but reading the thread I'm now leaning towards Nakor.

I detested Jim Dasher in the other books but he is starting to grow on me.

Can't Feist stop rehashing old characters. Martin's dour looks, rarely smiles looks like he's more in common with Authra than commanding Crydee at a young age. Also how can he be Martin's great grandson. When his father is Henry who's father was also called Henry. Martin only had one son Marcus.

Lady Bethany, page 21 she had been nettle as often as a balm since her mother had died. Now unless I've gone mad her mother is alive and well.

I know this sounds like I dislike the book, but despite the discrepancies I think its his best since the Serpent Wars, I nearly gave up after Talon of the Silver Hawk.
 
Woops I should finish the book before commenting. Finished last night Martin Longbow is not Martin's great grandfather but his great great grandfather,I jumped to conclusions after reading his thoughts on Arutha's defence of Crydee and mulling on the fact his great grandfather was there.:eek:

Are we going to see three Con Doin brothers rule the kingdom again?

Hal as king, Martin prince of Krondor and Brendan Duke of Crydee?
 
Woops I should finish the book before commenting. Finished last night Martin Longbow is not Martin's great grandfather but his great great grandfather,I jumped to conclusions after reading his thoughts on Arutha's defence of Crydee and mulling on the fact his great grandfather was there.:eek:

Are we going to see three Con Doin brothers rule the kingdom again?

Hal as king, Martin prince of Krondor and Brendan Duke of Crydee?

I kinda find this more interesting than the other storyline, having Miranda and Nakor back is a supreme disappointment imo.
 
Btw, did anyone else feel that the sword fight at the Master's court between Hal and Tal's son, was Feist's way of pitting Arutha against Tal Hawkins, who were the 2 best human swordsmen in his series?
 
*meh* I enjoyed the fight and it was a nice surprise to see it end the way it did. It was also interesting to see how much the master's court had changed from the old fighting ring to something much more akin to modern fencing.

The reincarnations never much worried me. I tend to just figure it as the person in question getting another "turn on the wheel" as they say, but I can understand that we could certainly use some variety as well.

On Martin being the Great Grandfather: Sometimes people just note a single great rather than however many are required *shrug*. Seems minor IMHO, but Bethany's mother is quite a bit more of a blooper.
 
Finally finished reading and definately agree that this is probably his best book since the Serpentwar. There are mistakes, of course, but nothing above what we've come to expect to Feist; we've got entire threads highlighting his mistakes here! :p

More than anything, I enjoyed the politics of this book. Politics were the bedrock of his earlier and more successful novels; the last couple of series have lacked this additional feature and have focused more on the 'fantasy' side of things, which is fair enough I guess.

The identity of Child was easy enough to guess, Feist basically gave it away halfway through the book, which was a bit disappointing as the ending therefore lacked the suspense it should have provided. As for Belog, I expected Macros and got Nakor, which isn't terribly surprising as choosing Macros would be wrong on so many levels! As for Lims-Kragma's prophecy, if Pug's already seen them die once, does he need to see them die again for it to be fulfilled?

I expect Macros to return though, or at least play a significant role in this somehow, perhaps through past deeds. Gathis was mentioned in the book so Feist hasn't forgotten about him. They'll pop up somewhere. I wouldn't be surprised if the armour of Draken-Korin is also of his making; he did have the knowledge of foresight afterall. I have a feeling the Lifestone is still key, even though it was 'destroyed'. Why else would Feist return Draken-Korin to the storyline?
 
Finished the book about an hour ago and got to agree Feist has stepped it up a noch for the finale series.

recognised child as Miranda half way through but like most was expecting macros not Nakor, I suppose if he could instill macros’ memories into a dasati he could do the same with 2 demons but does that mean the demons are already dead like the dasati macros was? Also it showed child as being different from the prologue whereas we don’t see a change in belog until close to the end of the book? my guess is their return has to do with a few things; first and most obvious giving pug more information on what he is facing, second, amirantha makes a reference when he first arrives at ebar that all these demons are loose and hiding so could their job be to round up the hiding demons?

Earlier in the cycle there was something about macros being the gods first experiment to be their sort of avatar link to the planet but they said he had too many faults (i.e. vanity, bravado etc) from his souls past lives and they created a new soul (Pug) to take macros' place. If all the souls are reborn then could Feist be bringing back all the best characters for the final series and that why we have been seeing so many similarities to artuha, martin and the others? Nakor and Miranda wouldn’t have had enough time to go through lims kragas hall so they would have to come back through other means i.e. demon possession.

Also the thing about Draken-Korin mentioned above that he had been killed god knows how many times before at first too, until I remembered Feists reference to the lifestone again. The last encounter with Draken-Korin was BEFORE the unravelling of the lifestone so only the part of his life-force outside the stone was killed, when Calis unravelled the stone could kalkin have directed the life energy from each of the dragon lords back to the armour in their old demesnes? If kalkin directs enough people to become human dragon lords like Tomas is (human side offsetting the madness Tomas overcame) wouldn’t they be ideal to fight off the upcoming was with the dread? It would be useful considering the only beings apart from direct intervention from the gods (which only kalkin and maybe tith onanka can do since its outside the others nature) that could fight the dread man for man where the valheru?
 
Here is another bit of speculation to throw into the mix. As was referenced in one of the earlier books (book one of the demonwar saga if I remember correctly), when demons are summoned to a higher plane of existance then "angels" must then also show up to counteract and neutralize the demons. The discussion between Tandarae and one of the star elves' brothers then questions where the "angels" have been all this time. Of course we infer that the Quor and the S'vengari are the "angels" in reference. What if they aren't? What if they are "angels" for us but only because Midkemia (and the current Feist universe) is only the first plane of existance? For the Dasati then would Midkemians be considered "angels" as they come from a higher realm than the Dasati? Why aren't we exposed to any specific references to the realms above the Midkemian universe?

Having said that, and getting back to my original conjecture, what if the Valheru are the "angels" that need to appear in order to combat the demons or even the dread? It would follow that a being from a higher plane needs to appear in order to counteract a being from a lower plane of existance now doesn't it?

Just some things to think about. I greatly look forward to the last two books. I just wish it didn't take an entire year for them to debut each time.

;-)
 
Angels? Hmm, now there's a thought! Feist constantly makes reference to the lower planes of existence, true, but of the higher planes there is little mention of. It's been a while since I've read the later books so I'm no help whatsoever! I can't really remember what the Quor and the S'vengari are, nor their exact purpose beyond being some kind of guardian of Midkemia. However, I do remember there being an 'angel' of the higher planes at the end of Shards of a Broken Crown and I distinctly remember it being non too friendly!
 
I have just finished reading A Kingdom Besieged and I am a little confused mostly with the Royal Family of The Kingdom of the Isles.
In the first Conclave Series it is King Ryan son of Patrick but now it is King Gregory son of Patrick or have I missed something out here?
Thank You
 
Feist has made a few mistakes with the Royal Family over the years; for all purposes, pretend King Ryan didn't exist! Or, instead, pretend Patrick didn't die and that he was King Ryan. As this book is more political than any book since the Serpentwar, I guess King Gregory is here to stay. More than a little confusing.
 
I can't believe Jim Dasher can be stupid that much trying to reach Sorcerer's Isle by sea instead of searching for a Conclave agent in Kingdom. I assume he knows enough about Conclave.
 
Were the video games any good?

Betrayal at Krondor is one of the best RPGs made by man. No "IMHO" about it.
Return to Krondor has its moments, but is shoddy and clunky and underdeveloped and only a "sequel" in the sense that it takes place on Midkemia and one of the characters is Jimmy. It's not related to BaK at all.
Betrayal in Antara uses a similar engine and style to BaK, but is not related to Midkemia content-wise in any way. Opinions vary on it.

Now, as for the book...

Warning: long review.

I seem to be the statistical outlier in terms of reviews. I fully expected to like this book and was kind of hyped for it (well, as hyped as I could be after waiting and waiting and waiting for it to be released in Germany and finally giving up and getting hold of it through other means). But I found that I could very barely get through it. I'm not even sure if I'm qualified to say I read it. I skimmed a lot.

Maybe it's because I've been spoiled rotten reading Pratchett's stuff lately, but while the prologue with the demons (and indeed the whole storyline with them) was engaging, Feist's writing style has been bothering me more than it used to, so much that I cringed through a lot of the scenes. In a word: Pacing and description. What happened to effective introduction of characters? Feist is still doing infodumps - and worse still, he's interspersing them with bits of dialog or, gods forbid, action sequences. It completely wrecks any sense of pacing. The first chapter is especially atrocious - just read the start of the conversation between Martin, Brendan and Bethany and count how many lines of actual dialog a page contains when showing what's supposed to be a flowing conversation. >_< Feist has utterly forgotten the "Show, not tell" rule, and the problem still persists.

Speaking of those three, I just couldn't bring myself to care for these new characters (or Hal, or Ty) at all. Maybe it's the shoddy writing style. Maybe it's just me. But why do they even need to be there? There's only so many examples of the "young, inexperienced, talented and privileged nobleman/woman" template Feist can use before they become very interchangeable, and borrowing names from previous characters/historical legends isn't helping. The constant attempts to characterise them through references to the heroes of previous books are also tiresome. Gee, okay, so the new Martin isn't like the old Martin - he's a carbon copy of Arutha, instead. Literally a copy in all but name.

Aside from the writing, my problem with this book is pretty simple: about 90% of the screentime belongs to characters I likewise couldn't be brought to care for when they were introduced. Sandreena and Jim Dasher are particular examples - they were both introduced with huge infodumps on their personal history, talents and abilities, and for some reason that makes me distinctly non-curious to keep reading about them. They also came as pretty much complete packages, with an intricate backstory, but one that never happens on-screen, and they change very little since their introduction. Like Jim Dasher's thing with Franzieska. The woman he loves, but can never be with. That's very touching, but I never saw their complicated relationship develop or unfold, never witnessed the moment when it was clear that it wasn't meant meant to be. I have no emotional investment in it. You can't just suddenly conjure up this new facet and expect me to care about it.

Bringing Tal Hawkins back, and giving him a kid to boot (because there weren't enough young noblemen characters already, it seems) also left a bad taste in my mouth, as I consider him one of Feist's worst characters. (In a nutshell, he's perfectly skilled and talented at pretty much everything, in a way that does certain characters legendary for a particular skill much disservice. Also, that arm-regrowing thing. Yeah.) The "Jommy, Tad and Zane" trio similarly - I found them completely forgettable from the books they were in.

Also, Bethany: Okay, she was hilarious. In an unintentional way. I mean she felt like she was only there to fill up the female character quota and introduce a romance subplot. She doesn't have any significant last lines in the book or anything: No, they arrive at the fort, Martin starts ordering people around, and then he sends Bethany away to be cleaned up and given wine, and that's that. Lol.)

Now, Amirantha, Pug, the taredhel - those are still pretty interesting (though Pug is rather overpowered, and Feist can only cope with that by making the enemy EVEN! MORE! POWERFULL!), but most of them had pretty few appearances and, more importantly, little stuff to do. It's especially weird with the taredhel in general after so much hype over their settlement on Midkemia in RaDL. I couldn't find much interest for reading about Kingdom/Keshian politics all of a sudden. Feist keeps jumping between interdimensional-type stuff and petty court and inter-kingdom politics, and it's kind of jarring. And why would it be Kesh again? Why not the moredhel or the eledhel, who are much more closely related to the entire fundamental struggle of the cycle? The eledhel especially are direly in need of characterisation. Thirty books, and they're still an obscure nation of Mary Sues living in a flawless utopia (as in "seen by the author and thus the narrative as flawless", not genuinely flawless, which is subjective, and ought to be acknowledged in-universe as such) with completely unexplained and puzzling traits. (Why do they have a queen? What do they do all day? How come they're all Lawful Good and never turn evil-ish, if they and the moredhel are the same people? Are they being brainwashed into goodness by the Spellweavers? No wait, that would be controversial. We can't have them being controversial. Plot holes are much better, yes.) Barring that, I'd rather read more of the Tsurani and their resettlement, to be honest. At least they're a culture we've come to genuinely know and love from previous books, one that means something to us.

Some of the touches were pretty interesting - the Child arc, the foreshadowed loopholy-role of the Hall of Worlds, the role of the Nighthawks, and of course the final chapter and indeed the final line... But that's where it was just getting good, and the book stopped. It felt very short. Not just in length, but as in, too little has happened. I liked At the Gates of Darkness, but that one was already an information-gathering type plot. I didn't feel that the characters moved forward very much - there is the confirmation that 'Le gasp! It's the Dread!' but even a casual reader was aware of that at least in the previous book.

So... I'm hesitant to call it the worst ever book, but it IS the first Feist book I've had major trouble reading. I feel that Feist has been very lazy in creating characters lately and the writing style is shoddy. Even the RPG-like style of the Krondor books was better - at least it was to the point and didn't spoil everything about the characters within pages of introducing them. So I'm kind of puzzled by the comments that the "old Feist" is back and am glad I was lent the book, because I sure would've regretted paying its price for it. Maybe there's something I'm missing?
 
I couldn't disagree more with Hekateras & personally can't wait until A Crown Imperilled is released in a couple of weeks.
I'm counting down the days
 

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