Flip Flop Genre

[J-WO]

The author is coming to a UK SF convention in the not-too-distant future. On the last day of the con we should set up a catwalk and have a Vivienne Westwood fashion retrospective. Let's see how he likes a dose of his own medicine.

 

[mosaix]

Agree with Parson on this. I would be somewhat upset.

 

[Connavar]

Isnt that author starting with W a known,respect writer of military,alternate history SF ? It seems extra cheap when you are a proven sf writer and not just some newbie desperate to sell with vampires....

 

[Parson]

Con:

The author is indeed. In fact ... is one of the very small number of SF writers who makes their living entirely as an author. And this book looked to be like those with the military aspects of the story front and center along with an array of interesting characters.

Teresa:

I might well check into that site. You've had some interesting avatars from there before.

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

I might well check into that site. You've had some interesting avatars from there before.

They have more avatars than I have seen on any other site, and they say they are all contributed by the individual artists, not pirated. I've found no evidence to the contrary. With other sites that have free avatars, it usually doesn't take long to find something that has obviously been ripped-off.

 

[Vertigo]

That's very interesting Parson, I had heard about this book and was a little suspicious of the Vampire aspect of the plot and, as you are aware, I share your enjoyment of this particular author. So I think I shall skip this one of his for now!

That said he does mix his genre's in some of his other series, one in particular that I do like quite a lot. However that series was presented like that almost from the first page so I guess it wasn't such a deus ex machina plot.

 

[Parson]

That's very interesting Parson, I had heard about this book and was a little suspicious of the Vampire aspect of the plot and, as you are aware, I share your enjoyment of this particular author. So I think I shall skip this one of his for now!

That said he does mix his genre's in some of his other series, one in particular that I do like quite a lot. However that series was presented like that almost from the first page so I guess it wasn't such a deus ex machina plot.

It's the switch that's really my complaint. I can handle vampires or other magical stuff. It's part of the world building for an author. But when everything else says that this is not a magical book, but a book where science and logic rule supreme and then you stick in a magical ending .......... I found myself really angry at it. Maybe unfair, but true.

 

[dask]

I haven't read the book either but perhaps we should give the author a break. The fact that Parson was caught off guard means that at least the author didn't telegraph his surprise and that's not a bad thing. Also, if the vampires are of the traditional sort and the story is along the lines of traditional sf, perhaps he is echoing one of dask's dark and stormy dictums: If the supernatural truly exists then it would cease to be supernatural. Not an untoward sentiment for an sf story to espouse.

 

[Yog-Sothoth]

I read the blurb, sounds quite good to be honest. I flip flop genres on a daily basis, so an author doing the same, in the same book probably wouldn't bother me. Unless its done very sloppy, like most Bollywood films with those serious engaging scenes, that suddenly burst into a circus full of dancing and bright colors.

 

[Vertigo]

Parson I think I would agree with you on that. I've not read the book so can't comment directly but I generally don't like it when an author throws in something completely out of character with the rest of the book.

Again it occurs to me that his particular author has done this a few times though not as abruptly as you are indicating this book does. Another example from this author would be (whited out to continue the no spoiler theme): In Fury Born and I guess the shorter story that this was built from in which a major "character" in the story is one of the Furies.

 

[Parson]

Parson I think I would agree with you on that. I've not read the book so can't comment directly but I generally don't like it when an author throws in something completely out of character with the rest of the book.

Again it occurs to me that his particular author has done this a few times though not as abruptly as you are indicating this book does. Another example from this author would be (whited out to continue the no spoiler theme): In Fury Born and I guess the shorter story that this was built from in which a major "character" in the story is one of the Furies.

I've read both versions and loved them both. But the original shorter version I thought was a bit better and longed for a sequel not a remake. But in these books I would call it a mixed genre. The fantasy part did not come to you out of the dark, with little or no hint that you were headed for a supernatural ending like the one I'm complaining about.

 

[Ursa major]

The fantasy part did not come to you out of the dark, with little or no hint that you were headed for a supernatural ending like the one I'm complaining about.

From where else are vampires going to come if not out of the dark? Though I continue to agree that it was a grave mistake to not properly hint at their existence in the earlier parts of the book (as opposed to letting them jump out of the box at the most convenient moment).


A thought: perhaps traditional vampires can be found in proper SF, just so long as they're described as inter-dimensional beings**.




** - And be part of the Gene Roddenbury oeuvre.

 

[Parson]

HeHeHe! Ursa. "Out of the Dark" -- I get it. Okay, in this case the vampires had a few different attributes than the classical vampire mythology. --- Only the young ones had to stay out of the light. And without exactly saying so, the logical conclusion was that they never "had" to drink blood, and they certainly ate other things.

 

[Vertigo]

I've read both versions and loved them both. But the original shorter version I thought was a bit better and longed for a sequel not a remake. But in these books I would call it a mixed genre. The fantasy part did not come to you out of the dark, with little or no hint that you were headed for a supernatural ending like the one I'm complaining about.

My thoughts exactly and since you are clearly unhappy with this latest offering and since we seem to have similar views, I shall treat this book with some caution! Though I'll probably end up reading it eventually anyway. Who knows I might not have the same problem with it now I know what's coming!

 

[Parson]

One can only hope.

 

[Ursa major]

...though no-one's going to stake their life on it....

 

[steve12553]

A thought: perhaps traditional vampires can be found in proper SF, just so long as they're described as inter-dimensional beings**.




** - And be part of the Gene Roddenbury oeuvre.

My belief is that anything can exist in Science FIction if there is a least a hint by the author that it can be explained by science. It doesn't have to be explained but rather the characters (or at least the narration) has to believe they can be explained. If the vampire, ghost, genii or what ever is acepted by the narration as such, youv'e been reading a fantasy all along and didn't know it. A good example of this from a different medium is the film From Dusk Til Dawn. It was a crime drama/ action film until about midpoint when the vampires show up. No science. Just pure fantasy/horror. If there was no rationalization for vampires in a "Science Fiction" book it's a Fantasy/ Horror book.

 

[Ursa major]

I think the problem goes wider than the apparent genre shift. In Dusk Til Dawn, the appearance of the vampires made the situation for the characters we'd been following worse. It also had us rooting for those characters who we'd seen as the antagonists (to the extent that I almost felt sorry for the character Tarantino was playing). Result: a more exciting film which makes us feel uneasy (in a "good" way).

From what I can tell, the genre shift in the book about which Parson is posting acts to loosen the rules, allowing a solution where none had seemed to exist before. Result (apparently): a deus ex machina ending.

 

[HareBrain]

Strangely, this review was posted earlier. Maybe vampires in hard-sf is becoming a trend? Maybe they'll start infiltrating every genre, even cookery books.

 

[Dave]

That was the best part of 'Dusk til Dawn' - the sudden shift.

There are 'vampires' among the hominids on Ringworld and a 'salt vampire' in the original Star Trek, so nothing new there.

This vampire fever is due to the 'Twilight' saga isn't it?