Magic or Technology or Nature= Gods

[Creator]

I have returned once again....
This time with a burning question and a dilemma

I am now looking to write a story in between science fiction and fantasy. In my story, I have featured deities from the East helping characters.

The only problem is their depiction and perhaps what they are. The words and descriptions are my headache since they are the key to defining them. Of course from a religious point of view, there is never enough ways to define a godly being. But I am doing this from an Ancient Astronaut/ Tech human point of view.

The theme of my novel is mostly environmental protection with gods actually more than ready to intervene seeing that humans have fallen from grace like in modern times.

My dilemma is that it would be easy to put deities as magical beings who oppose technology and have Nature-kinetic powers. But I am also thinking that deities would be as technological advanced beings too. As A. Clarke mentioned about magic being technology unexplained.

I wonder if there is a way technology and Nature can balance itself. Technology can continue to evolve but not at the expense of Nature. I would be very doubtful about the deities who want mankind to care for the earth if they are technologically advanced beings who use rocket thrust[flaming chariots] or death rays[lightning].

I am also working on the possibility of their biological immortality which is easier to solve than I expected.

 

[RoninJedi84]

I think it's an interesting idea. Knowing just a bit about the Ancient Astronaut Theory, I would say the balance of technology and powers wouldn't be too difficult to find. Keeping in mind that, regardless of the inspiration and reference you're using, it's still a fantasy/sci-fi story, and the rules of reality are made to be broken here.

For example, is it so far-fetched to believe that these beings, due to their technological advances, have learned to harness parts of their brain which humans either have not or have forgotten? I say No because I've seen many theories suggesting that "superhumans" (the ones who can't be easily debunked, anyway) have done just that, unlocking portions of their brain that allow them to do extraordinary things with their bodies and even minds (telekinesis, etc.).

Just because they're technologically advanced doesn't mean it was without it's flaws, and perhaps they've found "cleaner" (for lack of a better word) forms of energy that allow them to travel the vast distances to Earth and other worlds.

As far as their immortality, if you look at aging as just another disease to be cured, it's again not hard to fathom an advanced race would have found the means to do so.

I can't say much more without knowing more specifics, but I hope I was helpful, even if I only suggested things you've already thought of or perhaps added some validity to some ideas you have. When you write, it's your city, your world, your universe. Do with it what you will!

 

[Interference]

I am also working on the possibility of their biological immortality which is easier to solve than I expected.

I'd expect no less from a Creator

 

[Creator]

I think it's an interesting idea. Knowing just a bit about the Ancient Astronaut Theory, I would say the balance of technology and powers wouldn't be too difficult to find. Keeping in mind that, regardless of the inspiration and reference you're using, it's still a fantasy/sci-fi story, and the rules of reality are made to be broken here.

I can't say much more without knowing more specifics, but I hope I was helpful, even if I only suggested things you've already thought of or perhaps added some validity to some ideas you have. When you write, it's your city, your world, your universe. Do with it what you will!

Just about the immortality of the gods, they actually go through a form of biological immortality something like a certain Jellyfish or the hydra[not the mythical one]. So sometimes you can see the deities like the Jade Emperor or some other immortal sometimes looking middle aged and then sometimes looking like a teenager or even a child. Whatathink?

As for the technology, I was sitting on a few concepts. Basically while ignoring the ethical reason for deities being technologically advanced beings. The dilemma is our perception. If Deities are using rocketry that produces CO2, or technology that seems too similar to the Earth destroying tech that we have today? Or perhaps I have been too narrow-minded?

I am hoping to describe the technology of the gods somewhat in between advanced tech with magic and nature-kinesis.

but what specifics do you guys want to know?

 

[RoninJedi84]

I think when I said specifics, I was actually wanting to know more about biological immortality, as I have to confess that I wasn't familiar with it, but it was easy enough to find information on. Now that I understand what you're talking about there, I think it's a fresh and believable idea. In my own opinion, of course. The simple fact that death could only occur through injury or disease leaves the door open for some fun things to play with.

This just came to my mind, for example: What if the reason the gods are so ready to intervene is because some of their race died as a direct result of what humans have done to their environment? Yes, it borders on cliche', but I would think the cliche' would involve the gods seeking revenge, not trying to help the humans better their ways as you propose, so it's kind of spinning the stereotype on its head a little and toying with the audience. Then again, maybe some of them want revenge? Just spit-balling a little, but in a nutshell I'm saying i love the idea!

As for the technology, well...that one's a little tougher for me personally, as I've never been very tech-savvy. Yeah, not even in my mind, it's just not one of my strong suits. I do, however, think you should widen your options, and not worry too much about their technology being similar to Earth's. I'll be pondering this over the next day or two and try to come up with anything I can that might help.

I would like to offer one word of encouragement in the meantime, though: you don't have to explain all of the inner workings of every piece of technology in your world. Obviously, it can be done and if that's the route you want to take, go for it. But I tend to think that technology (as it refers to the kind we make up) is a lot like an onion. Once you start peeling back layers of explanation, eventually you'll find something rotten. Personally I enjoy a bit of ambiguity with the "powers" I read about, be it actual magic or technology. Basically, don't beat yourself up trying to explain the minute details.
　

 

[Creator]

So I describe their technology as being like technology hybridized with powerful magic.

But how would such technology look like from the surface, I do not plan on going deep with the descriptions.

For example, the chinese thunder god's hammer[strange coincidence with Thor]

The hammer looks difference from Thor's box shaped one, but if it is something like magic tech. how would I describe it flashing bolts of electricity...in a technological but yet mysterious way. Or have I answered my own question?

Ok I see most of the Eastern immortals have clouds beneath their feet as they move to Heaven. This sounds like a CO2 Rocket from a Ancient Astronaut point of view. Is there a better way to get propulsed without using CO2 as a waste product I wonder.

 

[RoninJedi84]

The hammer looks difference from Thor's box shaped one, but if it is something like magic tech. how would I describe it flashing bolts of electricity...in a technological but yet mysterious way. Or have I answered my own question?

Ok I see most of the Eastern immortals have clouds beneath their feet as they move to Heaven. This sounds like a CO2 Rocket from a Ancient Astronaut point of view. Is there a better way to get propulsed without using CO2 as a waste product I wonder.

I think maybe you did answer your own question.

As far as propulsion without CO2 as a waste...sound waves maybe? I know we can levitate objects with them, so maybe the gods have advanced that particular technology?

I've seen the experiments where basically there's a ball inside a case and the waves from the bottom of the case move it upward while waves from either side have it spinning. Maybe the crafts themselves send the waves out instead of something else sending them in?

Sorry for the crude description. I hope it made sense.

 

[Creator]

I think maybe you did answer your own question.

As far as propulsion without CO2 as a waste...sound waves maybe? I know we can levitate objects with them, so maybe the gods have advanced that particular technology?

I've seen the experiments where basically there's a ball inside a case and the waves from the bottom of the case move it upward while waves from either side have it spinning. Maybe the crafts themselves send the waves out instead of something else sending them in?

Sorry for the crude description. I hope it made sense.

Sound waves... but that would not explain the clouds... Maybe Nah.. screw them. I just say that they have exhaust fumes as they fly to the heavens. I think as long as I do not mentioned anything about the exhaust of a rocket...

But do Hydrogen based propulsion systems have exhaust gases as a cloud of steam?

 

[chrispenycate]

The standard terrestrial way of making clouds (not the only one by a long way) is condensation of water out of the air. Hot, humid tropical air + gust of freezing exhaust = lots of violently swirling cloud. So. cold? Adiabatic expansion. Ambient temperature compressed air suddenly expanding a thousand times as pressure is released, and localised sub-zero temperatures. Questions; why the air hasn't been violently heated by the compression cycle, and whether the amount of air flow needed for that much lift wouldn't blow the clouds into the next country but one.

The steam coming from most hydrogen burning jets (no need to go rocket while you're in the atmosphere, and it's much less efficient) is very hot, and transparent as air. It wouldn't form visible clouds until it had cooled down, much later.

Sound is too inherently symmetrical to provide continuous lift (the levitation above a fixed surface by sound waves is due to boundary conditions at that surface) and a beam of coherent sound powerful enough to lift a being on a throne would pulp anything on the ground under it, and the clouds would be dust thrown up by the pulverised rocks. Not to mention that the leakage sound, at whatever frequency chosen, would be not merely deafening, ear-drum shattering, but tissue destroying (a pity, because I'm good at ultra high level sound).

The lightning projector is easy; I could build one myself. A bit big, accepted, and getting the accuracy is – well, who knows exactly what a god wanted to hit, anyway? They're inscrutable. Just a proton beam accelerator, ionising a path through the atmosphere. Unfortunately I can't see any way to utilise this technology to produce lift, particularly hover type lift.

Oh, and high tech isn't necessarily more polluting than low. If we were trying to support our present lifestyle, with the transport and commuting of this size population, on a muscle-powered industrial base, it would be quite a lot more polluting than we have nor (which would probably mean unsustainable). So, foods only when they're locally in season, not just a bicycle each but has to last ten years, while a TV set or a computer should last thirty. Wages relative to prices at feudal levels. So your gods aren't being short sighted when they aim for high tech goals; and since the principal problem is excess humanity, perhaps their mass exterminations are not that cruel, either.

 

[Creator]

THanks for your opinions...

I am not sure if people actually saw immortals on clouds as they are flying in the air or they are taking off like a rocket...

But immortals in chinese legends are portrayed as sitting on clouds. I dun have to describe their technology as its magical but then the reason for

I also need to rethink if humans really have life drawing skills that suck so bad that they cannot even draw what they see. I am in the animation line of work and we draw from life many times but it took years of training of one's perception. I am thinking on this theory that ancient humans really had drawign skills that bad they saw a rocket but drew a chariot instead. A rocket does not have wheels.

 

[Creator]

Ok... maybe flaming chariots could be misinterpreted aircraft? But then the wheels ain't as big as a chariot. I do not think that the artists back then have artistic perception so bad that they cannot see that a plane's wheels are not as big as a chariot's?

I am writing this under the influence of the ancient astronaut theory with a fantasy/ science point of view.. Somewhat mixed theories.

I am also playing around with words on the god's weapons being contemporary versions of human weapons like say the Hammer of Thor.... Becos most of these gods are portrayed being similar to people in those ancient times. Even today.

I plan on updating the Jade Emperor and his pantheonn to a more advanced

 

[Interference]

I really hope you'll post some of this in Crits when you're ready.

 

[RJM Corbet]

Has anyone read 'Strange Fruit' by Clark Heinrich? Just google up to get the drift. Very strange fruit indeed: a very convincing explanation of what alchemy was actually looking for, as well as a lot of other stuff ...

 

[Interference]

Heinrich is treading already well-trodden paths, I think, but it might be worth a read. Some pages (under the re-title of "Magic Mushrooms in Religion and Alchemy") are available on-line if you want a taster.

(Taster!! Mwahahahaaa! )

 

[Creator]

But just a short paragraph is okay for Critique section?

 

[RJM Corbet]

Biological Immortality is about the surival of the species not the individual. The primordial instinct for self self-preservation is only there to enable the individual to survive long enough to propagate, at which time, the individual instinct to self preservation falls away to make way for ther instinct to nurture and protect the young, until they too are old old enough to propagate. A mother chicken will fight a lion to defend her chicks. Nature, as they say, is cruel ...

 

[RJM Corbet]

Heinrich is treading already well-trodden paths, I think, but it might be worth a read. Some pages (under the re-title of "Magic Mushrooms in Religion and Alchemy") are available on-line if you want a taster.

(Taster!! Mwahahahaaa! )

You've read that book?

 

[RJM Corbet]

But just a short paragraph is okay for Critique section?

I'm not at all sure that 'Strange Fruit' (if that's what you are referring to) can be covered by anything but a full reading. Clark Heinrich covers some pretty wild territory...

 

[Creator]

Thanks guys.

However I have a problem is nailing the descriptions of how magical the powers of the "gods" would look like from a superficial point of view.

We have all seen Warcraft and media all this time. They alway portray them as glowing inscriptions and stuff. On the technological side, we are also portraying super tech as Tron lines with the circuits and stuff...

I wonder if there is a way to make it magical but yet seemingly " high-techy" without Tron lines or glowing things unless it's powering up..

The glowing things on magical devices and high technology is so cliche even from my artist point of view.

 

[ctg]

What you are really asking is perception through the Point-Of-View character. If the 'magic' is done by an Ancient Astronaut to a lower being then you don't need to explain us so much. But if you're in the point-of-view of an Ewok then a gold plated protocol droid can appear as a God to you. So, in the practical you have to be careful on what you write and how you write it, and when it comes to the visuals, leave them at the movies and let us to imagine the 'magic'.