Taboo stuff in fiction. What's yours?

[ventanamist]

If I recall correctly, Heinlein did dwell a lot on incest in Time Enough for Love. The hero apart from discussing sexual feelings he had for his daughter at one stage, managed to go back in time to seduce his mother or possibly she seduced him. He also had a similar relationship with some of his great, great, great etc grandaughters (he was extremely long lived). It all sort of made sense when I read it in my teens although I didn't like the hero.

Heinlein did like to push the limits. There was one of his novels (I'm sure it is not in print now nor ever will be) where the hero, an obsessive survivalist, was catapaulted to the future in a nuclear explosion. The only cultures that survived from the nuclear war were in Africa. So he and his family arrived in a future where the white races were slaves. Heinlein obviously thought he was being clever but reading it now one would quickly realise that it was clumsy racist bilge.

I read every sci fi book cover to cover in those days, but even then, it left me with a really bad after taste. This book written today would certainly be taboo and I would be extremely surprised if anyone tried to defend it. Especially considering the revelation that the 'civilised' black lords of that future indulged in cannibalism.

 

[Colbey Frost]

Is there such a thing anymore? If you dont promote it then you could write about anything.

Maybe promoting a taboo is the only remaining "taboo".

 

[TheEndIsNigh]

I don't really have any "real" taboo in my books. If it works, I'll use it. Incest, rape, mocking religion, you name it. In fact, I've been wondering for some time if I should write a book about pedophilia and human trafficing, having two young girls as the main characters. (obviously they will be victims, and it won't be pretty.) So far pretty much everyone tells me I shouldn't write it. Part because "no one will read it", and part because it's too disturbing. Still, I want to try, at least.

The only things I call taboo in writing are using clichés. I don't care if the world is in danger. You are not the Chosen One, and the world doesn't depend on that particular magical sword. If the hero dies, another one can take over as the hero. If the bad guy beats the hero to a pulp, the hero should not somehow find enough strength for a surprise attack and win anyway. He's half dead, for f'sake! Same with the bad guy. If he's dead, he's dead. This is especially annoying in horror movies.

I think you should listen. The days when this would have been acceptable are long gone. You could get away with it in a crime genre where the hunt was on for the killers (just about) but to actually try and make a story of this will probably go down like a lead balloon.

If you write it well, then just one complaint to the authorities, will have your PC's hard drive being pulled apart byte by byte, to find any 'research material' they think you 'must' have.

Life is short, why make it difficult?

 

[MstrTal]

Sadly you wouldn't even need "research material" to find yourself in hot water. The guy who wrote that pedophiles guide was extradited from his home state to Florida to stand charges. If I remember correctly the DA in some county or other intentionally purchased a signed copy of his book through Amazon and then charged him under a Florida decency and child endangerment statute. My personal feelings on the subject aside, even as an over protective father of two young girls, one needs to be careful anymore with certain subjects. You never know when a member of the overly zealous moral majority with a bit of power and the means of exerting that authority might decide to flex.

 

[TacticalLoco]

In one book wasn't the Heinlein character a clone of himself? That is, another character? Double XX's and all? So it really was more a weird ego thing in my mind.

And yeah, Time Enough for Love won't stand the test of time well.
But I still think he was motivated by ego.

 

[ventanamist]

Ah, I remember now. He even managed to have sex with his own starship. Didn't do it with aliens though. Just killed them I think. Nasty piece of work. Hero and author both.

 

[Cyella]

As I write for youth+ I am very careful as to my content. I will use mild horror, emphasis on mild, if it is relevant to the story. But no bad language or gratuitous sex of violence. Not necessary if you write a good exciting story.

 

[Cayal]

I don't really have any "real" taboo in my books. If it works, I'll use it. Incest, rape, mocking religion, you name it. In fact, I've been wondering for some time if I should write a book about pedophilia and human trafficing, having two young girls as the main characters. (obviously they will be victims, and it won't be pretty.) So far pretty much everyone tells me I shouldn't write it. Part because "no one will read it", and part because it's too disturbing. Still, I want to try, at least.

They said that about American Psycho, yet it's now a movie.

Let's be Frank, if you write such a book and it gets negative publicity because it is graphic or whatever, people will be more inclined to read it.
Essentially the forbidden fruit theory.

 

[soulsinging]

On a related note, this pretty much sums up why I didn't like Sucker Punch.

Ironically that was pretty much the only reason I wanted to see it... though I hear it failed even as the most crass, exploitative teenage boy fantasy.

 

[soulsinging]

I can tell you that if you try to write about actual people, particularly celebrities, and try to tell the truth about anything... questionable... (even if you were personally involved) you will be violently assaulted in your own life, even if decades have passed.
The real taboo subject turns out to be truth and reality. They have a nice history written up, and it's not going to change for anyone.

Are you Deep Throat or something? The shooter on the grassy knoll? This is so cryptic...

 

[soulsinging]

I think you should listen. The days when this would have been acceptable are long gone. You could get away with it in a crime genre where the hunt was on for the killers (just about) but to actually try and make a story of this will probably go down like a lead balloon.

If you write it well, then just one complaint to the authorities, will have your PC's hard drive being pulled apart byte by byte, to find any 'research material' they think you 'must' have.

Life is short, why make it difficult?

That's how they got Pete Townsend. But I don't think the book he's proposing would automatically be over the line. If it was porn fan fic, then he might be in trouble, but it doesn't necessarily have to be exploitative. It's a topic deserving of more awareness and coverage and a book like this could very easily tackle that in a way that is engaging even if it is horrifying. I think of a book like Speak or the numerous African-American slave narratives, etc. Toni Morrison's books are far from pleasant and cover similar ground (lots of sexual abuse) without being distasteful. Underage sex tourism and slavery are real problems and one that a lot of people don't want to acknowledge, but fiction can often be the perfect medium for that because it provides a bit of distance while allowing the reader to still get immersed in a story that is essentially "truth."

 

[GreenKidx]

In Brent Week's Night Angel Trilogy he paints a graphic and heart breaking picture of a childhood on the wrong side of the tracks. I think because the country and people are fictional its easier for us (the reader) to swallow.

I personally don't feel ANYTHING is off limits. When I was in high school my class wrote a show based on modern day slavery / human trafficking. I think the majority of people are going to be more accepting of a true/honest picture of a disgusting reality. You'll never get away from the angry opposition... and SOMEONE will always think you went too far when you bring up something unpleasant. If you are sensitive, honest and justified in your reason for wanting to tackle this issue, then have at it.

 

[Boneman]

If you are sensitive, honest and justified in your reason for wanting to tackle this issue, then have at it.

I agree. And if it's adding to the story, then it shouldn't be left out.

There was an article that I skimmed saying that in Science Fiction violence is acceptable, but sex isn't. I have to admit that only when I thought about it, as I was reading this thread, did I wonder if I should have been concerned about the incest/rape in The Painted Man (The Warded Man in America), but since it was mostly alluded to, or offstage, then it was 'acceptable', even though the reality of it is abhorrent. (But I have to say the rape just didn't fit in with the storyline....) And that's the difference - we're writing fantasy - it doesn't happen to 'real' people, just fictional characters. But there's a line one shouldn't cross, which is glorifying it. I'm still not sure that Joe Abercrombie didn't do this with his torture scenes in The First Law Trilogy. In the end they became quite boring, and I skimmed them - my own protection against it?

There's a good interview with Joe here (at least I hope it is, my history of posting links is appallingly bad...)

Pat's Fantasy Hotlist: New Joe Abercrombie Interview

But I'm sure he won't mind me quoting him, in case the link doesn't work:

"The other was that I was pushing the “unsympatheticness” (if that’s a word) of the characters and the darkness and brutality of the action further even than I had with the First Law. Certainly I pushed it too far for some, and no doubt some readers found it hard to relate to the characters. Hard to find anyone to root for. And that’s not a good thing in a character-centred book, really, is it?

So yes, there are fine lines between gritty and too gritty, violent and too violent, interestingly dark and utterly repulsive, but those lines are in different places for every reader."

(Sorry, wanted to put that in Italics, but don't have that facility at the moment, for some reason!)