Writer's "feud"

[Eulalia]

GRRM said he didn't want to end his series like the Lost T.V. series. Lost writer Damon Lindelhof is upset. Smackdown imminent.

 

[Ser_Bounds]

Hmmm, how would ASoIaF end Lost-style? Perhaps Bran dies but then wakes up in a parallel universe where everyone is alive and well?

 

[thaddeus6th]

I don't want ASOIAF to get anywhere near Lost levels of tediously milking a franchise.

The last book was below par but still far more enjoyable than Lost, of which I watched 2-3 seasons before tiring of the writers dicking about.

 

[Clansman]

Suck it up, Damon. As Thaddeus VI noted so succinctly, Lindelhof was dicking about for ages, and ended the series in a way in which no viewers were satisfied.

Meanwhile, the door was left open for endless spinoffs and sequels.

Lost and ASoIaF are not even in the same universe when it comes to quality.

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

Lindelhof ended the series in a way in which no viewers were satisfied.

That's a sweeping statement. I know viewers who were satisfied. I didn't like the first part of the finale, but I was satisfied by the end. Nobody knows whether Martin is going to come up with a satisfying conclusion. Or any conclusion at all.

... dies but then wakes up in a parallel universe where everyone is alive and well?

Nobody died and ended up in a parallel universe on Lost. The writers wanted viewers to think that for most of the season, but in the end that's not what it was.

 

[TK-421]

Well, sorry but as Lost afficionado I disagree. Damon and Lindelhof were very up front and announced two years ahead of time when the series would end thus setting up the following seasons to wind up were it did. Unfortunately for them, there also happened to be Hollywood writers strike in the middle of the second last season.

No other series like it had really done this before. Not X-Files. Not Twin Peaks. But many have since followed by announcing a clear end date instead of letting the shark jump.

I think what GRRM may mean is that Lost still left many little tangents unanswered and maybe that was intentional. I get the sense that GRRM means to end the books in a definitive way, which he hopes would be relfected in the HBO series. But, if the HBO series goes the way of Rome or others, there is a risk it may end prematurely.

In any event, I wish GRRM all the best since I've invested so much in ASOIF myself...

 

[Wiggum]

I'm a satisfied viewer of the Lost finale, and if you're going to pick on a show Lost seems an odd one.

There's an enormous amount of tripe on television that could only hope to be as good as Lost was.

 

[Boaz]

Wiggs, that's just the point. LOST started soooooo strong! The first season of LOST was the best single season of TV I've seen. It's just that the ending (and the mid-show writer's strike hurt LOST's continuity and momentum... and that hurt the ending) was not on par with the beginning. If LOST had ended with everyone going to the chapel, I would have been more pleased. It's just those last eight minutes or so that frustrated me.

There are plenty of writers who can start well, but not that many that consistently deliver a spectacular finish. Believe me, I'm not one. And I think the better the start, the more readers climbing on board, and the more progress the publicist/promoter makes, then the bigger and better the ending must be to meet the increased expectations.

I did not see a link to GRRM's remarks, but my guess would be that he is striving to deliver his "bittersweet" ending in high style. I'd tend to doubt that GRRM (a man who knows the difficulties writing for TV) would intentionally pick a fight with highly successful TV writers.

Then again mayhaps they can resolve this through trial by combat. Khal Drogo v. Benjamin Linus... The Mountain v. Jack Sheppard... The Blackfish v. John Locke... Tyrion v. Hurley... Strongbelwas v. Sawyer... Dacey Mormont v. Kate Austin... Mmmmm, Dacey. Mmmmmmmmm, Kate....

 

[Wiggum]

My pro argument for the finale of Lost is that it was character centric, not island obsessed.

I always found the island mysteries as a secondary, and in the end, distracting part of the show.

The show lost it's way a bit in the telling of the island's story, but it never did with the characters.

 

[Eulalia]

Here is the link.

Strong words. Geek Fight! Lost, Thrones Camps Square Off Over GRRM’s Dis of Finale - Tuned In - TIME.com

 

[Boaz]

Wiggs, I agree about the characters, not the circumstances, carrying the show... Amen. But I felt the end was the Island's story and not the characters. It did not really matter what the characters did in life... the Island represented a universalist theology that I strongly disagree with. Murder, treachery, torture, lust, greed, selfishness, etc. (i.e. the aspects that made the characters interesting) seemed to be overlooked if the characters were part of the "in crowd."

I felt like Ralphie in A Christmas Story... "Be sure to drink your Ovaltine." The very ending made the entire series appear to be a commercial for moral relativism and universalist theology. Maybe to Lindeloff and the other writers this was a great ending. Obviously, I don't represent everyone... one of my friends loved it. He was not bothered by the end, but the process. For him, the struggle was all important...

Jack, Locke, Michael, Kate, Eko, Charlie, Jin, Sun, Sawyer, Hurley, Ben, Rose, Richard, Cooper, Desmond, Sayid, Miles, Widmore, Eloise, and Rousseau are great characters. I got to see multiple sides of each character... and I often identified with the dark side after I already sympathized with the good side. Great writing. I could write pages on their motivations, their secrets, their failures, their victories, their soft spots, and their hidden agendas. But the search for validation/redemption/peace for each character was paramount... I loved that about the series from the pilot.

But I know I can't win an argument against you because all you have to say is Pack 21, Bears 14, and I'll cry.

 

[woodsman]

He didn't hold back did he? Not that I really care, not a huge fan of Lost.


If Gurm goes after David Simon and The Wire, I'll be loading the shotgun and saving for a plane ticket. Though then he couldn't finish the books - Sophie's choice??

 

[Wiggum]

But I know I can't win an argument against you because all you have to say is Pack 21, Bears 14, and I'll cry.

That game made moral relativism a tertiary consideration at best.

 

[Boaz]

Okay, I just read the link regarding the feud. Uh, yeah, George blasted LOST. He'd better deliver now or Lindeloff will tweeting "Hypocrite" in ten years.

Wiggs, if I can't be a hypocrite, then I might as well go back to bed. Can you envision the parallels of Westeros and the NFL? The Packers are the Lannisters led by Vince Lombardi (Tywin), Paul Hornung (Jaime), and Brett Favre (Cersei) and feature Curly Lambeau (Lann the Trickster), Ray Nitschke (The Mountain) and Aaron Rogers (Joffrey). The Bears are the Starks... George Halas (Bran the Builder), Walter Payton (Eddard), Dick Butkus (The Greatjon), Gayle Sayers (Jon), and Jay Cutler (Roose Bolton).

 

[the smiling weirwood]

Lost was so boring for me. It seemed like an endless writer-wank for the sake of being edgy.

It was exactly the kind of thing I don't like at all. The characters were all stupid bitches, the whole island thing was just flat out dumb, and that kid was annoying as hell. I kept hoping they'd all get eaten by the weird forest monster and just end the show. Granted, I only watched the first season, so maybe it got better, but it just didn't do it for me.

 

[Tonk Rivers]

I think the thing with both Lost and ASOIAF is they are victims of their own success.

Lost needed 4 seasons, max. ASOIAF is a little more difficult to say, seeing as we don't know the ending, but 3-5 books should have done in.

I think it's the $$$. No writer wants to say 'It's longer cause I wanted to make more money.' The are always going to say 'I meant it to be that long.'

The question is, can we begrudge them that? Would we be any different?

 

[Bazza]

Wow such Lost hating, I'm surprised actually. Like Wiggum said it's definitely one of the better shows out there, ESPECIALLY network tv.

Lost was so boring for me. It seemed like an endless writer-wank for the sake of being edgy.

I completely agreed with you Wiggum. The first two seasons were like that, and I actually gave up on it. But honestly the 1st season was really there to set up the characters. The 2nd one is what killed me. The hatch? really? We could have done without that.

For some reason though I gave the 3rd season a shot and I never looked back. Yes it was tailored to give you the edgy cliffhangers every episode to make you go whaa? But there is some quality groundbreaking storytelling going on, especially the characters. I'd give it another shot.

But yes, back to the topic. Lost suffered from increasingly raised expectations. The show was a masterpiece with way too many stray threads to weave back together. I enjoyed the ending, but they just couldn't close it all efficiently. I am worried ASOIAF may suffer the same fate. I hope I'm wrong!

 

[hadd]

I think rating Lost as one of the "better shows out there" is a very biased opinion. I'm not saying it isn't, it just isn't in my top TV shows.
The thing is though that you stated the first 2 seasons weren't that good...well series like Rome which had pretty epic first 2 seasons got canceled, yet Lost kept going on and on. There's a lot of series that have had more potential than Lost's first seasons and have got canceled. But then again I suppose instead of telling an actual story Lost went for feeding the audience, so there would be a constant huge amount of viewers. That's what I feel at least, as I never understood its phenomenon.

 

[xLORDSNOWx]

I'm not going to get to worked up about this "feud" of theirs until David says that GRRM's kids are a result of incest between him and his sister, and GRRM sends a raven stating that David's kids are a result of his wife and patchface. This is when the mudslinging will catch my attention!

 

[TK-421]

I hate this crap! I mean is this even a real topic? One can like Lost or can dislike it. The same will gor for GOT. I don't really care if GRRM didn't like it. He and I can't be on the same page on everything. I liked Lost alot. I hope I will like GOT even more. C'est tout!