*EXPECT SPOILERS* The Life of River Song.

[Lenny]

We first met Dr. River Song in the David Tennant double Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead.

A creation of Steven Moffat, we've since seen her in three more doubles, all with Matt Smith's Doctor - the The Time of Angels/Flesh and Stone, The Pandorica Opens/The Big Bang and, more recently, the Series 6 opener The Impossible Astronaut/Day of the Moon.

It's been mentioned, by both the Doctor and River Song, that they're going past each other in opposite directions.

Chronologically, the first time we met River Song was the last time she met the Doctor, and she's been getting younger since, though it is hard to tell in what order.

Judging by comments she has made, the River Song at the crash of the Byzantine was older than the River Song when the Pandorica opened.

It would be logical to assume, from the progression of her story, that the River Song in 1969 was younger still. However, she said to Rory that the next time she met the Doctor, he wouldn't know her and that it would probably "kill her". From this, we can guess that her story is coming to an end and that the River Song from this episode is soon going to the Library.

We know that River Song was jailed for killing "the best man she'd ever known". Having dropped so many hints, I doubt Moffat would skip over the big event, so we can probably guarantee we will see what happens (common theories are that she kills the Doctor - something we know is totally possible if you stop both of his hearts during the regeneration process).

My guess is that we will see River Song twice more before she becomes confined to the annals of Who.

The first time we see her again (which I expect to be in the second half of the current series in the Autumn) will most probably be the first time she meets the Doctor - a man who appeared and knew everything about her. The second time will be the time she kills the best man she'd ever known.

Taking more evidence from The Impossible Astronaut, primarily the fact that the 1102 year old Doctor had a TARDIS diary and was swapping meetings, unless the Doctor ages two hundred years during this series, I'd put money on us last seeing River Song next series (quite possibly the finale. Heck, I'd also put money on it being Matt Smith's last episode). Unless, of course, the Doctor's timeline has been changed, or will be changed, this series, and that the happenings at the beginning of the first episode will never occur. But that's a discussion for another thread.

 

[HoopyFrood]

Hah, thanks Lenny! Ask and I receive. Now, what else can I demand...

 

[HoopyFrood]

I guess I'm still expecting more from River, going from when she first appeared. It was all, my gods, she's knows all about the Doctor, she must be someone incredibly important! She knows [his real name/something equally important that gets him to instantly trust her]! I know they have built up quite a bit of...um, history, I guess now, so...

I've always been wondering all along how she knows the next time they meet something horrible will go down and stuff, and now it's finally clicked. He's going backwards through her life, so she's got the memory of what she did.

Am I missing out things, or is she still feeling insubstantial? Has it actually ever been said what kind of doctor she is, as asked by Rory this evening? Do we know why she's so good with a gun, etc, etc. Her comment tonight, I love a tomb, just made me think of Tomb Raider.

So we keep coming back to this Killed a Very Good Man. Are we being shepherded to the idea of being the Doctor? Is she the one in the suit who ends up killing him on their very first meeting? I would ask how long she's been in prison, but as she constantly keeps escaping from it and travelling all over time, it's hard to tell.

 

[PTeppic]

I think I'd agree that the "obvious" connection is that a) she's his "future" wife and that b) he's the one she kills.

But this is Steven Moffatt. QED.

 

[Tillane]

I'd agree with Lenny on the point that we'll see River at least twice more. However.

However.

My own thoughts. Which will be well out.

The girl we saw at the end of ep 2 is River. A young River? Not sure, but probably.

The astronaut is also River.

The Doctor at the start of ep 1...is not dead, or is not the Doc that we know. I'm working on this.

We've only seen the start of the girl's regeneration. I suspect she will regenerate into River, but I can't be sure. She could, as easily, regenerate into the season's Big Bad (ie, the Rani, or Omega), and thence into River. Ergo, she "kills" the best man she's ever known while she's someone else. And then regenerates into River.

But I could be wrong.

Well wrong.

EDIT: actually, I have a sneaking suspicion this whole series will be about River, and who she is (Moffatt has given some hints to this, methinks). In which case, we may see a lot more of her - even if we don't realise it.

 

[PTeppic]

I think I'd agree that the "obvious" connection is that a) she's his "future" wife

Well, she did kinda refer to him this episode as "my old fella", which is pretty clear cut. Or is it?

 

[HoopyFrood]

I was reading up stuff last night and one of my weirder predictions about River has been scrapped by Moffat himself -- that she's Amy Pond in some way. Also, he's said River's not his mother either, in case some people were considering that.

He's also said that she's something special but not in the way people have been led to think (or something along those lines).

 

[Caledfwlch]

Speculations/potential spoilers...

Jenny is the little girl. Jenny/The little girl is River.

Timelord enough to regenerate, but not enough that the Doctor can sense her existing, like he could the very second the Master de fob watched.


Whatever it is that River will do, she seems comfortable with it, no guilt, no, im sorry Doctor behaviour, so thats baffling.

Also, she made a Dalek wet itself with fright. Who on earth is she and what will she do

 

[HoopyFrood]

I heard someone else mention that the girl could be River Song as a child.

If we go down that road, aren't there some problems? Already we have been told how River was swept away by the man who appears in her life and knows everything about her on their first meeting. Well, if these episodes count as the first meeting with River (as a girl) then he certainly didn't know anything about her. I dunno. Timey-wimey stuff.

Also, I know River is an enigma and everything, but would she, her older self, be able to keep such a straight face going through all the stuff in the episodes, knowing that's actually her as a child?

Mind you, Cal, above, has mentioned the fob watch and now I remember that the Master couldn't remember anything about his previous life until it was convenient...

Damnit, I want River answers! Instead I have watch pirates next week....







All right, I like pirates.

 

[scifriday]

I've speculated that River kills Rory. Even before last nights Gangers episode Rory has shown he is a very good man. Waiting by the Pandorica for 2000 years, etc.

I think River makes a choice to kill Rory rather than the Doctor to effect some great end.

Another weird idea I have is that River is the Masters daughter by a human.

One thing is clear. River is the Captain Jack of this series.

 

[HoopyFrood]

That's my friend's current view, that it's Rory she ends up killing.

She also sent me this from Den of Geek:

http://www.denofgeek.com/television/889695/doctor_who_who_is_river_song.html

I kinda like the idea she's Amy's daughter. Timey-Wimey indeed.

 

[Daisy-Boo]

I never thought River was the Doctor's mother. She doesn't kiss him in a maternal way, at all. Also the Doctor is flirting right back at her now and there's a certain chemistry between them that wasn't there before.

 

[Graendal]

The woman at the hatch in all the episodes so far..is a midwife. Amy is pregnant...isn't pregnant. The picture in the orphanage of Amy and a baby (the regenerating child?)

Begs the question is Amy - Rivers Mum?

 

[PTeppic]

Given the publicity for the forthcoming episode, "A good man goes to war", which states that River's identity will be finally revealed (potentially in the final line of dialogue), it should be clarified that this post is made before that revelation.

So - who is River Song? Numerous candidates but all apparently have to fit a certain profile: knows his name, is prepared to die for him, trusts him implicitly (and explicitly) and obviously spends a lot, a lot, of time around him (in his future). And is capable of killing "a good man". But who?

The Doctor himself, presumably humanised via a chameleon arch but with his memory in tact (hence how he can fly the TARDIS so well): not very sure it's that likely though. He's always said he'd "know" another Time Lord - if he had simply regenerated into River's shape, presumably he'd have been able to detect the TL genetics: and messing with his own time-line so much would surely cause major problems? It would certainly need a big ole diary to keep track of things though!

The Doctor's mother/sister, again presumably humanised. We've already seen one character who was implicitly his mother, one of the trapped Time Lords in "The End of Time". Is her behaviour towards him really appropriate for a mother/sister? His assumption (and thus ours) is that he told her his name - in this option they would already know it familially.

The Doctor's daughter - she grew up from Ms Moffett into Ms Kingston? Really? Or yet another form of permanent face change. Seems unlikely. The trust would be there, however, and if she (in the future) reveals her identity he may reveal his name. Just doesn't ring true.

Doctor's wife - it's the most obvious option, the one that we've been led towards and which pretty much answers all the problems. But is it too obvious and therefore unlikely?

The TARDIS - Idris somehow gets another body? We've had the set-up episode, so this could be the natural conclusion: at some point vastly in the future the Doctor gets a new TARDIS for some (presumably) dire reason, the matrix being saved into human form once again. Would explain her trust and fondness for him, though the timelines would be awfully complex (and she'd have been more than evasive in some previous answers).

Amy - seems unlikely. not even sure where to start the counter-argument, perhaps with Rory?

Amy's baby - assuming it ends up being real and hers and human. Distinct possibility, once it's grown up.

Romana - a future regeneration or chameleon arched human version (who may or may not remember her former association): nice link back to the "old" Who and they could pretty much get away with anything. Would they want to? Possibly.

Susan Foreman or descendant - as for Romana

A "Flesh" body - controlled by someone (who?) or independent thought? Unlikely: seemed to die in the Library and not melt. Assuming the death was real (see below).

Cpt Jack - with some sort of new body? Cheeky enough idea but he shouldn't be able to die as "easily" as she did in the Library. BUT, did she /actually/ die in the Library or could it have been faked (I can't remember). It would also really confuse the timelines of their interactions being in the wrong order.

The Master - step away from this option. Do not go there.

 

[Lenny]

Regarding River's death in the Library, I think it's definite. We see her plugging herself in, the Doctor screaming at her not to, and then him staring, rather sadly, at where she was sat. He even takes her diary and leaves it with the other books, which seems rather final.

Eventually, he realises that there's one of those neural relay things in the screwdriver, and sprints to plug her into the computer, where she appears to live in the world with the other dead crew members and CAL.

She's been "saved" but, as the first Library episode made sure we knew without question, "saved" is not "safe".

Having said all that, the episode ends with a voiceover from River (and a look at the chair where she plugged herself in - an empty chair): "Everybody knows that everybody dies, but not everyday. Not today. . . Some days are special. Some days are so, so blessed. Some days, nobody dies at all. Now and then, every once in a very long while, every day in a million days, where the wind stands fair and the Doctor comes to call, everybody lives".

My opinion: she's physically dead but, the same with the child computer, CAL, is alive digitally within the huge Library computer. However, she cannot be brought back into the real world.

I wonder if we'll see the Doctor give River a screwdriver with a hidden neural relay thing.

---

Whilst we're speculating:

I think that this "good man" she kills is going to be Rory, but I'm not sure why. Possibly something to do with Amy's child needing to die for something bad to not happen, but Rory refusing to let this happen because he sees it as his child.

I would like to think that she's an Old Who character - I believe the Rani was never killed off, and she would make a good candidate as past relationships between her and the Doctor were hinted at; or Romana, who, if she was in human form as the Master had been, would have escaped the locking of the Time War. Though unless she knew who she was (which we are led to believe can't happen until the Time Lord opens their pocket watch), I don't see why she would be with the Doctor.

My money is on something unlikely, as I expect Moffat to throw a curveball - River Song is a Time Agent from the 51st Century, sent to gather intel on the Doctor, for some reason or other, who eventually falls for him.

---

EDIT: I'm just reading through Wikipedia, and apparently River appears and gives Amy her diary at her wedding to help her remember the Doctor.

I'm watching the end of The Big Bang now, and indeed she does, but the diary is blank. The diary is, of course, "something old, something new, something borrowed, something blue", which does help her remember.

Whilst the point of the diary is obvious, you have to wonder how River knew.

And as a point of interest, because it's been mentioned in other threads, the Doctor does call Rory "Rory Pond", because "that's how it works".

We also never saw the Egyptian goddess loose on the Orient Express in space. But that's a discussion for elsewhere.

 

[Lenny]

SPOILER ALERT: If you haven't seen S32E07: A Good Man Goes to War, don't even think about scrolling down!












There we have it! River is Amy's daughter, all growed up.

Now we know how the Doctor knew everything about her when they first met.

It also adds another layer to the Doctor watching her death in the Library, but may need a wee bit of retcon - her DNA is human and Time Lord. If we assume she was the child in the spacesuit who regenerated at the end of Day of the Moon, which flashbacks in AGMGTW definitely suggested, then could River have regenerated after the Library and be floating around in a different form?

 

[chopper]

depends if its her final regeneration or not, i guess. certainly gives some broad scope for the character......

 

[Grimbear]

Begs the question - how old is she? and also if we'll see her regenerate (as adult River Song) not as a child.

They may choose not to answer any questions though - or too keep it all as vague as possible to leave room for lots of possibilities.

arg there's so many loose ends already - not just with this. But sometimes I'd much rather speculate than be told.

 

[scifriday]

Perhaps River does not have the full 12 regenerations of a time lord being mostly human? Maybe the little girl we see regenerating is her one and only time?

 

[Tillane]

Or perhaps she can just do Tennant's trick from season 4, and can heal but not fully regenerate...