*EXPECT SPOILERS* The Life of River Song.
- Thread starter Lenny
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Lenny
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I suppose the little girl could use Tennant's trick from series four, but she needs something to push the extra regeneration energy into - "a handy biomatching receptacle", is how Tennant described his hand. So assuming the same limits still apply in post-RTD Who, the little girl needs something similar if she only wishes to heal, rather than regenerate fully (which is when, I suppose, we discover a Flesh girl hiding behind a dumpster...).
Jenny, in contrast, simply breathed a bit of the regeneration energy thing out and was fully healed.
Jenny, in contrast, simply breathed a bit of the regeneration energy thing out and was fully healed.
Tillane
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Not necessarily. Neither she nor Jenny are fully Time Lord, they just have a bit of Time Lord DNA. As a result, they might both have a different (or more limited) regeneration process: just enough energy to heal, not enough to do the full change, ergo no need for a handy spare hand.
HoopyFrood
It's me! Hurrah!
The little girl, just before she starts glowing (if it is young River/Melody -- wouldn't put it past Moffat and co. to throw a spanner into that) does say she's dying but can "fix it" -- perhaps meaning regenerating, perhaps meaning just heal. I assume she loses her American accent at some point during her life.
Also, River has been going around in the disguise of Alex Kingston for as long as we've known her in the programme, and supposedly that's over a fair few years of her life (do we know how many?). We've seen she lives a pretty active life, you would've thought she might have regenerated at some point. Unless she did it loads of times while younger.
Also, River has been going around in the disguise of Alex Kingston for as long as we've known her in the programme, and supposedly that's over a fair few years of her life (do we know how many?). We've seen she lives a pretty active life, you would've thought she might have regenerated at some point. Unless she did it loads of times while younger.
Some speculation:
- River Song was always in the astronaut suit
- She killed not the "real" Doctor, but one made of "Flesh" who reformed from the last episode
- She killed him because she found out that she'd spent most of her life with the Flesh doctor?
- River Song was always in the astronaut suit
- She killed not the "real" Doctor, but one made of "Flesh" who reformed from the last episode
- She killed him because she found out that she'd spent most of her life with the Flesh doctor?
Let's not forget that when River saw the Dr die she fires some shots at the Astronaut and when it had no affect she says 'of course'
Now, this could mean if she was in the suit, and that she knew the shots wouldn't affect her, but also it could be that the (as a child) astronaut then went to New York and left the suit (hmm doesn't fit with finding the suit in the orphanage, ok went home to the orphanage first) only to be injured and that's why she has to regenerate at the end, so river's 'of course' could be related to her realising that her own shot is what caused her injury and the first time she regenerates or (as has been mentioned) heals herself.
Doesn't the Astronaut child keep saying, 'don't let the badman get me' or 'don't let him get me' that would fit with her believing the Dr is coming to get her and will treat her badly as she might have been primed by eye-patch lady to fear/hate the Dr.
Now, this could mean if she was in the suit, and that she knew the shots wouldn't affect her, but also it could be that the (as a child) astronaut then went to New York and left the suit (hmm doesn't fit with finding the suit in the orphanage, ok went home to the orphanage first) only to be injured and that's why she has to regenerate at the end, so river's 'of course' could be related to her realising that her own shot is what caused her injury and the first time she regenerates or (as has been mentioned) heals herself.
Doesn't the Astronaut child keep saying, 'don't let the badman get me' or 'don't let him get me' that would fit with her believing the Dr is coming to get her and will treat her badly as she might have been primed by eye-patch lady to fear/hate the Dr.
Tillane
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That does kind of put a hole in the "River in the astronaut suit" theory, Moonbat: if it's a younger version of her (the little girl, for example), then presumably the "current" version of her would remember shooting the Doc - but the reaction of her "current" self (yelling, shooting at the astronaut) seems to be one of shock, which would indicate she didn't know it was coming. So, either she's repressed the memory (or it's been repressed by someone/something else (the Silence?)), or else it's someone else in there.
Or she did know it was coming and was really angry with herself.
Or it's an older version of River in there.
Or it is the little girl, but she's not River.
Or. Or. Or...
Or she did know it was coming and was really angry with herself.
Or it's an older version of River in there.
Or it is the little girl, but she's not River.
Or. Or. Or...
Lioness
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Ok...putting out a probably rather far-fetched theory here...
Just re-rewatched A Good Man Goes to War, and I'm thinking that it's possible...just...that Lorna Bucket might be River.
Reasons are:
-River didn't appear until after Lorna died...
...yeah...Lorna dying is a problem...but if she's all time-lordy, then maybe she just didn't regenerate/heal yet.
-The Doctor says that Lorna was incredibly brave...at the beginning of the episode Amy says that Melody isn't going to be happy, loved, etc., but that she's going to be brave.
-River says earlier in this season (or last season?) that the Doctor made a massive impression on her when she was a little girl. The Doctor made such an impression on Lorna that she joined an army just to meet him.
- The connection with the Clerics. When we see River in the Angels episodes, she's got the Cleric thing going on...once again, Lorna dying is a potential problem, but, well, maybe she isn't dead?
I know it's pretty unlikely...but just wanted to put it out there for speculating.
Just re-rewatched A Good Man Goes to War, and I'm thinking that it's possible...just...that Lorna Bucket might be River.
Reasons are:
-River didn't appear until after Lorna died...
...yeah...Lorna dying is a problem...but if she's all time-lordy, then maybe she just didn't regenerate/heal yet.
-The Doctor says that Lorna was incredibly brave...at the beginning of the episode Amy says that Melody isn't going to be happy, loved, etc., but that she's going to be brave.
-River says earlier in this season (or last season?) that the Doctor made a massive impression on her when she was a little girl. The Doctor made such an impression on Lorna that she joined an army just to meet him.
- The connection with the Clerics. When we see River in the Angels episodes, she's got the Cleric thing going on...once again, Lorna dying is a potential problem, but, well, maybe she isn't dead?
I know it's pretty unlikely...but just wanted to put it out there for speculating.
Lenny
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Despite the crushing disappointment of 32.08: Let's Kill Hitler, we can now add start and end points to our River Song timeline!
We know that River Song begins life as Melody Pond, daughter of Amy and Rory Pond, on the asteroid known as Demon's Run, in the 52nd century, having been conceived in the TARDIS on Amy and Rory's wedding night.
After the battle of Demon's Run, Madam Kovarian is seen feeling with baby Pond in a small spaceship.
In the unknown time following this escape, Madam Kovarian brainwashes Melody to hate the Doctor and assigns her to kill him.
//TIME GAP
Melody resurfaces in America in the year 1969 as a young child, having, we assume, been put into a spacesuit by a species we've mistakenly been calling The Silence. We cannot be sure which iteration of Melody this child is.
In 1970, Melody winds up in New York, dying from an unknown illness. Eventually, she regenerates, but we don't know her new identity.
//TIME GAP
A regeneration leaves Melody as a toddler living in Leadworth, sometime around 1990*, who becomes best friends with Amy and Rory and is, in effect, raised by them. The couple know her as Mels, a troublemaker who is obsessed with the Doctor. When she finally meets the Doctor in 2011, she pulls a gun on him and the four of them jump into the TARDIS to travel back to 1938 so that Mels can kill Hitler.
Mels is fatally injured by Hitler and regenerates into the character we know as River Song. After a farcical routine in which she appears to attempt, repeatedly, to shoot the Doctor, she kisses him, poisoning him with her deadly lipstick.
After seeing the Doctor try to save his companions whilst on the cusp of death, Melody jumps into the TARDIS and saves Amy and Rory, claiming that she is a baby of the TARDIS, who taught Melody how to fly her. With Amy and Rory safe, Melody, who now knows herself as River Song, uses her lingering regeneration energy to heal the Doctor, later learning that he used her remaining regenerations.
From here, we see River (in what I guess is chronological order) during the application stages to become an Archaeologist (complete with her little, blue TARDIS book), at the Battle of Demon's Run, at the Doctor's death in 1969 America, when the Pandorica opens, at the Crash of the Byzantium and at her eventual death in The Library.
We know that, at some point in her history, River Song receives an updated sonic screwdriver from the Doctor, and meets him for: a picnic at Asgard, an adventure in "the Bone Meadows", a visit to Easter Island and a meeting with "Jim the Fish".
After her death, River is returned to some semblance of life within the huge computer, CAL, that lies at the heart of The Library.
We know that River Song begins life as Melody Pond, daughter of Amy and Rory Pond, on the asteroid known as Demon's Run, in the 52nd century, having been conceived in the TARDIS on Amy and Rory's wedding night.
After the battle of Demon's Run, Madam Kovarian is seen feeling with baby Pond in a small spaceship.
In the unknown time following this escape, Madam Kovarian brainwashes Melody to hate the Doctor and assigns her to kill him.
//TIME GAP
Melody resurfaces in America in the year 1969 as a young child, having, we assume, been put into a spacesuit by a species we've mistakenly been calling The Silence. We cannot be sure which iteration of Melody this child is.
In 1970, Melody winds up in New York, dying from an unknown illness. Eventually, she regenerates, but we don't know her new identity.
//TIME GAP
A regeneration leaves Melody as a toddler living in Leadworth, sometime around 1990*, who becomes best friends with Amy and Rory and is, in effect, raised by them. The couple know her as Mels, a troublemaker who is obsessed with the Doctor. When she finally meets the Doctor in 2011, she pulls a gun on him and the four of them jump into the TARDIS to travel back to 1938 so that Mels can kill Hitler.
Mels is fatally injured by Hitler and regenerates into the character we know as River Song. After a farcical routine in which she appears to attempt, repeatedly, to shoot the Doctor, she kisses him, poisoning him with her deadly lipstick.
After seeing the Doctor try to save his companions whilst on the cusp of death, Melody jumps into the TARDIS and saves Amy and Rory, claiming that she is a baby of the TARDIS, who taught Melody how to fly her. With Amy and Rory safe, Melody, who now knows herself as River Song, uses her lingering regeneration energy to heal the Doctor, later learning that he used her remaining regenerations.
From here, we see River (in what I guess is chronological order) during the application stages to become an Archaeologist (complete with her little, blue TARDIS book), at the Battle of Demon's Run, at the Doctor's death in 1969 America, when the Pandorica opens, at the Crash of the Byzantium and at her eventual death in The Library.
We know that, at some point in her history, River Song receives an updated sonic screwdriver from the Doctor, and meets him for: a picnic at Asgard, an adventure in "the Bone Meadows", a visit to Easter Island and a meeting with "Jim the Fish".
After her death, River is returned to some semblance of life within the huge computer, CAL, that lies at the heart of The Library.
Lenny
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To touch upon some theories above:
- I was right that we would meet River in the Autumn restart of the series and that she would meet the Doctor for the first time, but I was wrong that it would be the first of two final appearances (she appeared in the mid-series finale and it doesn't seem like she's going to disappear).
- A lot of people were right that she was the little girl at the end of Day of the Moon, and within the Let's Kill Hitler episode, it was heavily inferred that River regenerated as a Time Lord would, with a new body and everything.
- I was going to comment on some more, but I've forgotten what...
- I was right that we would meet River in the Autumn restart of the series and that she would meet the Doctor for the first time, but I was wrong that it would be the first of two final appearances (she appeared in the mid-series finale and it doesn't seem like she's going to disappear).
- A lot of people were right that she was the little girl at the end of Day of the Moon, and within the Let's Kill Hitler episode, it was heavily inferred that River regenerated as a Time Lord would, with a new body and everything.
- I was going to comment on some more, but I've forgotten what...
PTeppic
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Not just receives a new sonic but gets to know his so well he tells her his name...
[Since we now know that he's not her father, brother, son, etc.]
What happened to River Song in the end? I remember Matt Smith meeting up with her a few times. And having just jumped into the brand new Capaldi season he has a picture of her on his desk.
But ... when did the Doctor actually marry her? And what happened after that means she's no longer with him?
But ... when did the Doctor actually marry her? And what happened after that means she's no longer with him?
I thought we saw her end -- the end of her as a real person, that is -- in the two-parter, Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead.
The concept was that the Doctor's first meeting with her was also her last meeting with him.
This does not mean that she and the Doctor won't meet again. After all, they are both time travellers.
HoopyFrood
It's me! Hurrah!
It was heavily implied that Calpaldi's Christmas special was the final appearance of River, as their visit to the singing towers is their last 'documented' time together (notice the documented, no doubt leaving it open to bring her back in secret if need be ) Though a night there lasts 24 years so they basically spent all that time together.
Yes, River as a person died in her very first appearance. She's 'saved' in the library computer though, so she makes a couple of appearances post death as well.
So there's the last time she's seen alive, which was with Tennant.
There's the last time the Doctor acknowledges the saved/dead version of her (I believe that's when he goes to Trenzalore as Matt Smith).
And there's their last meeting in the Doctor's linear life timeline, which was the singing towers, with Calpaldi. Probably.
River and the Doctor got married during Matt Smith's time, during the alternate timeline after she refused to kill him by the lake and time goes all out of joint because of it. The episode is called "The Wedding of River Song" so it's easy to find
) Though a night there lasts 24 years so they basically spent all that time together.Yes, River as a person died in her very first appearance. She's 'saved' in the library computer though, so she makes a couple of appearances post death as well.
So there's the last time she's seen alive, which was with Tennant.
There's the last time the Doctor acknowledges the saved/dead version of her (I believe that's when he goes to Trenzalore as Matt Smith).
And there's their last meeting in the Doctor's linear life timeline, which was the singing towers, with Calpaldi. Probably.
River and the Doctor got married during Matt Smith's time, during the alternate timeline after she refused to kill him by the lake and time goes all out of joint because of it. The episode is called "The Wedding of River Song" so it's easy to find
Cheers for the replies.
I really don't remember the wedding, or the Doctor doing much with River Song - I just remember her as a semi-regular guest, and that at the end of one episode she was imprisoned, but the Doctor kept visiting her there and taking her out.
I really don't remember the wedding, or the Doctor doing much with River Song - I just remember her as a semi-regular guest, and that at the end of one episode she was imprisoned, but the Doctor kept visiting her there and taking her out.
Heather Myst
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Great thread. River and Clara are my favorite Dr. Who characters. I especially love their scenes with Matt Smith.
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