Eddard Stark's failings

[devilsgrin]

Like he was suppose to obey Aerys?



He can refuse - he just feels compelled to accept.

None of this is about knocking Ned, though, as much as noticing his own flaws, which I didn't notice so easily in the books - not least because we got to see how Ned justified everything.

Obeying Aerys was impossible. Considering the circumstances, there was no way any honourable man could overlook the kidnapping of his sister, and the BRUTAL murdering of both his father and brother. Ned had more right to rebellion than any other High Lord of Westeros. Robert's reasoning was purely selfish - he simply wanted Lyanna for himself, at Rhaegar's expense.
Consider also the powder-keg that was the Seven Kingdoms at that time... Aerys had been getting crazier and crazier, so much so that even Tywin had removed himself from King's Landing - the ultimate in saying "he's a lost cause, do what you will" to the lords of Westeros. I feel that the withdrawal of obviousl support from the Lannister's was key to the success of the Rebellion.

The biggest problem with Joffrey Sansa, is that Robert is his best friend. Not an enemy. Yet the marriage, seen from Catelyns (correct) view, is a political marriage designed to unite the crown and the North. It greatly strengthens the North (as Cercei to Robert did the Lannisters) and is therefore important to not only Sansa, but to all the peoples of the North - to whom Ned, as their Lord, owes ultimate responsibility. Catelyn's motivations are the preservation of her family. She knows how dangerous the court is. Ned is blind (or chooses to ignore) such complexity. He also simply cannot refuse the "honour" being bestowed on his house - his descendents could Rule the Seven Kingdoms.
Refusal of such an honour would be incredibly suspicious. As we read in the books, and is Catelyn's rationale for insisting Ned go to be Hand. As loyal as Ned is known to be, the poisonous Pit that is King's Landing would read it as a precursor to treason of some kind.

 

[Raven]

Ned had more right to rebellion than any other High Lord of Westeros. Robert's reasoning was purely selfish - he simply wanted Lyanna for himself, at Rhaegar's expense.

Well, it was a bit more complicated than that. Lyanna was betrothed to him, and allegedly kidnapped by Rhaegar. There was also the small matter of Robert's foster brother's family being killed by Aerys, and for that matter Aerys demanding Robert's own head. Robert had all the reasons to rebel that anyone could ask for, it seems to me.

 

[devilsgrin]

Well, it was a bit more complicated than that. Lyanna was betrothed to him, and allegedly kidnapped by Rhaegar. There was also the small matter of Robert's foster brother's family being killed by Aerys, and for that matter Aerys demanding Robert's own head. Robert had all the reasons to rebel that anyone could ask for, it seems to me.

i never said he didn't...its just Ned's justification was stronger.

 

[philyra]

In a sense Ed Starks incapability of breaking faith and misguided trust in the system sums up the theme of the whole series 'When you play the game of thrones, you win or you die. There is no middle ground' etc...

The only characters who are really able to retain their honour and survive are the men of the nights watch - and that's because they don't really involve themselves in the troubles of the realm...

Hmmmmm

 

[The Imp]

In a sense Ed Starks incapability of breaking faith and misguided trust in the system sums up the theme of the whole series 'When you play the game of thrones, you win or you die. There is no middle ground' etc...

The only characters who are really able to retain their honour and survive are the men of the nights watch - and that's because they don't really involve themselves in the troubles of the realm...

Hmmmmm

I could argue that Dany has maintained her honor every step of the way, and there are men in the Night's Watch who haven't, but that's getting away from the topic of Ned. I think, as others have already pointed out, that he did the best he could being caught between the rock, being Robert, and the hard place, being his family. He was a man in totally over his head when he got to king's Landing, and paid the ultimate price, but from where i sit he acted with honor given the circumstances the Gods placed him in.

 

[Koopa]

Eddard Stark is the one blind man in a room full of one-eyed men.

Not only was he not raised/accostomed to a political environment full of intrigue and betrayal, he walked onto the scene with no real knowledge of what the fudge was going on. Whilst he was busy searching for the answers he needed for him to be able to act, the other whom already knew everything where preparing what to do when dear eddard stumbled upon them. the man never stood a chance.

 

[TK-421]

Well, it's all about picking the right battles you can win. Even then, you lose. Ned, unfortunately loss. I would not judge him for what he says to his daughters or disagreements with Robert. He simply did not play the game well enough.

The walk Ned has with Littlefingerand the "burry the hatchet" discussion with Cersei in episode 4 of the television show sets that reality up very well.

 

[C Of K]

I would not judge him for what he says to his daughters or disagreements with Robert.

Usually, I might not either, except he was discussing his standards of honor in both instances. There is really no getting past the fact that Ned will tell his daughters to do one thing, yet when he has to make a similar choice as to whether or not to support a decision made one of the royal bloodline to murder someone, he does the exact opposite.

 

[Tonk Rivers]

I believe one of the overarching themes of the series is that honour is in the eye of the beholder, rather then the steadfast virtue we may have once believed of it.