Ok so who knew about Loras and Renly before the series?

[nixie]

I did pick up on it but like a lot of others, I never really paid much heed to R+L

 

[TK-421]

Renly did marry Margery Tyrell and never bedded her. BIG HINT!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Mesanna]

LOL yeah, that was a clue. And apparently Renly was only "excited" during the Wedding & Bedding ritual, because Loras was in the room. Man, that must have been weird!

 

[Lofwyr]

I'm the first to admit that I'm not the most attentive reader, but I did pick up on this! It was Loras saying to Sansa that he'd lost someone he loved that was the first clue. The Rainbow Guard and Brienne was the second. And finally, isn't there a line (I think in Feast for Crows) where Jaime and Loras are having words and Jaime promises to "stick his sword in places even Renly never found". (I can't remember the exact words, perhaps Needle or The Imp might recall?).

I gave Game of Thrones to a friend for Xmas and she totally loved it and bought all the rest of the books herself. She figured out Loras & Renly herself, but R+L=J went completely over her head (as it did mine too).

The bolded was my primary inkling. I assumed it was so and it explained some actions but, I never really considered it a big deal in the books. I actually didn't connect the Rainbow Guard bit until...just now

R+L=J leaped out at me about 1/4 of the way into my first AGoT re-read which took place after reading through AFFC. I don't know how anyone could be expected to pick up on that one in their first read. The show is pushing Jon's mom as a much bigger issue right now and I still expect most people who only have exposure through the show to miss it.

edit: I also don't think there's very much concerning Renly/Loras in the first book. It's not something you get many hints towards until book 2. In book 1 it's mainly just descriptions of how pretty both of them are and how well Renly dresses.

 

[HoopyFrood]

I noticed it, but 'cos...well, sounds overly-fancy, but I've been fined-tuned into a deconstructionist machine and it's the kind of stuff I just automatically look, and hope, for when reading now.

Although also Renly was my favourite character from pretty much the first moment he arrived on the scene (about the only jovial character!) so I following all his stuff with much more interest.

 

[MIDNIGHT]

I suspected they were an item, but not until later in the series (just as I suspected R+L=J). It isn't really "confirmed" in the books. GRRM admitted they were gay in an interview and then it seemed to become more of a topic. I believe GRRM never made the connection with the Rainbow guard being a hint, rather just a reflection of the 7 gods or something like that. Maybe Wert can clear that up. (or maybe I just made that up, I seem to get some things mixed up that I read )

 

[Gry Wnd]

There is a Jaime chapter in ASOS where he meets with all the guard for first time. He basically "outs" him to his face after everyone leaves.

I didn't get it on first read either, noticed that chapter on a re-read after reading it would be prevalent in the series.

Kicking myself though, I thought maybe Loras was because he was so crazy about Renly but never really put that together with how pretty Renly always wanted to be...

 

[Delran Stark]

I have to confess, I suspected something, but I had my doubts.... Now I know for sure

 

[TK-421]

GRRM is a master of portraying opposites and extreme opposites.

Sansa is the opposite of Arya

Robert is the opposite of Ned

Dany is the opposite of Viserys

Jaime is the opposite of Cersei (that one could incite much debate on its own)

Renly is the opposite of Stannis - he's jovial, kind, well-liked, respected. As Loras said in that shaving scene "Stannis has the personality of the lobster!"

 

[Eulalia]

I think that I got it (and R&J) because I read a lot more mysteries than fantasies, so I am looking to solve puzzles. I've been taught by friends to admire rainbows...If you look at GRRM's blog, also, it is clear that he loves paradoxes, riddles, and liberal ethics.

However, the depth of Littlefingers duplicity went way over my head.

TK, Dany also contrasted with Cersei.

The Hound is contrasted with Loras?

Tyrion is contrasted with Tywin?

Ned is contrasted with Littlefinger?

So many to choose from, and beautifully done.

 

[Brian G Turner]

Renly did marry Margery Tyrell and never bedded her. BIG HINT!!!!!!!!!!

Robert Baratheon hasn't bedded Cersei in a very long time either.

And Tyrion refused to bed S.

But Renly's sexuality never seemed that important to the story.

 

[TK-421]

SPOILERS below.


True, true, however there was never any doubt that Robert and Tyrion weren't out shagging others instead.

Renly's sexuality is not all that important but his relationship with Loras was, as was Brienne's love for him. This was something that drove or gave some purpose to each character and I am not convinced we have seen the last that and some delayed revenge for Renly's murder. But whether the shaving scene in the TV series was repulsive or sexy, it certainly went a long way to build characters. It gave the viewers vital information about who is Renly and who is Loras, where do they come from and where do they both fit in the puzzle of characters. Alot easier to do in text. Much harder on the screen with limited time.

In any event, GRRM did warn us that their relationship would be much more evident. I have to admit that I thought the tournament scene when Loras and Renly steal a little glance at each other and then when Littlefinger says something about Renly's "friend" was the most we would get. I was surprised by the shaving scene. But when I listened to the dialogue, there was a lot of information on each one them and a lot of foreshadowing. It sets up well the future Rainbow Guards and why Renly would make a stake for the Iron Throne that we will see in season 2. We also get to like him more in advance of meeting his not-as-well-liked older brother Stannis.

 

[Mouse]

I remember very little of the books, but I always thought that Renly went with lots of women. Did I just make that up in my head? (Likely!) Even when I found out from this site that Renly was with Loras, I still thought he was bisexual for some reason.

 

[Conor]

I remember very little of the books, but I always thought that Renly went with lots of women. Did I just make that up in my head? (Likely!) Even when I found out from this site that Renly was with Loras, I still thought he was bisexual for some reason.

That's how I thought of him too, like a modern man that likes his clothes a clotheshorse if you will.

My only real issue is he seems dour and pouty instead of jovial, light hearted and humourous. I gave my copy to a friend, but I believe he is first introduced while on the road from Winterfell to Kings Landing when Sansa first runs into the executioner and Renly makes a bit of fun of him.

 

[Slyde]

My only complaint about the scene is that the writers have cut out SO much to fit everything in 10 episodes, why add entire scene that expands on something that was only hinted at in the books and has no relevance to the story.

They did it just for ratings.

 

[Eulalia]

The more ratings the merrier.

I suppose the other thing the shaving does is show that their relationship has likely been long term and possible exclusive and very close. (Intimacy, as Mouse says) But what do I know? Perhaps its a second date activity for some.

It's nice to be surprised by a scene that also makes sense. Mere T and A would not surprise.

 

[Mouse]

My only real issue is he seems dour and pouty instead of jovial, light hearted and humourous.

Yeah, I'm not keen on that. He does seem to have had a personality change as well as a looks change. I'm hoping his personality will start to come through a bit more, cos we can't do anything about his looks. (Unless he does a Doctor Who and regenerates into Ben Barnes. *sigh*)

 

[Needle]

I definitly knew this from the books, it was not so in your face but there for sure! As Mesanna pointed out Loras to Sansa that once you lose the one you love no one else can take their place (not a quote but close) and yes Jaime told Loras he would stick his sword places even Renly never found (BIG CLUE ) and after I thought about it Renly shows Ned a picture in a locket of Margarey, says he has been told she looks like Lyanna, I think he is really excited because she looks like Loras!

 

[Mesanna]

OK this was bugging me. I had to look up the quote I was talking about.

It's in Storm of Swords (I was wrong about the book), when Jaime arrives in Kings Landing with Brienne. They meet Loras and he wants to kill Brienne and Jaime tells him to "sheathe your bloody sword, or I’ll take it from you and shove it up some place even Renly never found.”

Whilst looking for that quote, I also came across a chat Tyrion has with Oberyn. Tyrion mentions Loras and Oberyn asks "Renly's little rose?" It seems their relationship was quite well known.

There are probably tons of little clues like this dotted throughout the books, so much so that when you re-read, you'll wonder why you missed them!

 

[Koopa]

Well Loras and renly being gay is important. As is the fact that they are both fools.
If they weren't both

Not gay:
A) There, in all likelyhood would not have been a Tyrell-Baratheon alliance

Not fools:
B) They would have accepted renly's older brother Stannis as king, and
that slowass tournament jousting, rainbow guard creatin army would have been useful for the Baratheons. Now the lannisters won.