Plot and Character checklist

"You've got to know when to lay down, know when to fold up, know when to walk away, know when to run. Don't count your winnings when you're at the table, there'll be time enough for counting when the day is done."

Who sang that, by the way? I don't remember.

:)

Kenny Rogers, wasn't it? And I agree that trying to write by rules is like trying to follow the Pirate Code - it's more like a set of guidelines... But it helps to have milestones set out for you. (Can't think of any more cliches, but you knowe what I mean!)
 
Don't forget promises, too, meaning the promise you make to the readers. This relates in part ot the mysteries mentioned above- the promise is a contract between reader and author that, for example, the murderer will be revealed, the character they care about will overcome their conflicts, good will triumph over evil, whatever the motivation of your story is. It is important that readers feel their 'reason for reading it' is addressed, whether that is an answer to a mystery, or a reassurance that all is well with the world.

So is a completely sad; unexpected ending with the main character dying a complete no go? I havent read enough to know whether its ever been done. Anyone care to educate on this matter?
 
So is a completely sad; unexpected ending with the main character dying a complete no go? I havent read enough to know whether its ever been done. Anyone care to educate on this matter?

Not at all. Read Rolande's tragic tale in Charlemaigne. Or better still, (and the one that I still want to write the sequel to...) read Shogun. Mariko's death still affects me, every time I read it, and I read it every 2 years or so.

It's so difficult to pin down, to say 'this is acceptable and this isn't'. No doubt a lot of publishers said stories about boy wizards wouldn't sell; or stories about a torturer as a main character; or a world where demons come out of the ground every night.

Honestly, if the story's good enough any ending is acceptable. If Frodo and Sam had died on Mount Doom, it would have been a tragic ending, but a great one, in my opinion. Losing a finger was small beer...

Besides, you can always resurrect someone in fantasy...:eek:
 
So is a completely sad; unexpected ending with the main character dying a complete no go? I havent read enough to know whether its ever been done. Anyone care to educate on this matter?

If you're telling the story and that's the way it happened, who are you to change the facts?
 
Honestly, if the story's good enough any ending is acceptable. If Frodo and Sam had died on Mount Doom, it would have been a tragic ending, but a great one, in my opinion. Losing a finger was small beer...

LotR: How to stretch a midday stroll over a thousand pages :D

More on topic: The Evergence trilogy by Sean Williams & Shane Dix is one of my favorites and it's ending is about as far away from a 'hero saves the day' as you can get (I won't spoil though). I was thoroughly enjoying the story as it was, but with that ending, I fell head over heels in love.

In summary: My view on main characters, is if you (from creator perspective, not readers) can even consider their death in a situation, then kill them. You can just shift the focus to a supporting character, or as Boneman suggested, bring them back later :D
 
If you're telling the story and that's the way it happened, who are you to change the facts?

Rule #1 of storytelling: never let facts stand in the way of a good story.

Stories are told for entertainment; they are not a history lesson. Yes, I know, people are more likely to remember the story and not the facts but if they're not interested in find out the truth, they're not interested.
 
I think when you kill off the protagonist, or indeed any important character, that however unanticipated that death might have been before the fact, after the event readers should feel that it was, in a sense, inevitable.

As a reader, I feel cheated and manipulated if I think that a writer has killed a character simply for shock value, or to pull off a big surprise. The writer holds all the cards, and it is very easy to fool the reader, so there is nothing clever about that if he or she doesn't play fair.

Besides, I think surprise is over-rated. Anticipation can be just as effective. Often more so.
 
Besides, I think surprise is over-rated. Anticipation can be just as effective. Often more so.


Better to travel hopefully, than to arrive... This situation is about the only time I think that saying fits. Anticipatorially can double for hopefully. And killing someone off for the sake of it (or for that matter, bringing them back for the sake of it - despite what I said earlier) will kill the reader's interest very quickly. I have given up on a number of books (including one that Trudi Canavan likened to LOTR) for exactly those reasons.
 
On television shows, and particularly on soap operas, the writers will sometimes kill an important character because they've run out of interesting ideas for what to do with them. (I'm talking about TV in the US. Perhaps scriptwriters in the UK don't do this.) I would hope this doesn't happen much in books, because a character who ceases to present possibilities part way through the story probably shouldn't be a main character anyway.
 
From what I am hearing I think I am on the write (excuse the pun) track. . . I will just keep at this damn thing until it is finished, and then see what you guys think. Protagonist alive or dead, who knows ;)
 
If you're telling the story and that's the way it happened, who are you to change the facts?


I like this theory. As in the story happens in my world and im telling it to the rest as if it was real? Or are you literally confusing fact and fiction. The former I hope!
 
I simply get all my characters from the real world. People I interact with daily have helped me a lot to develop my characters.
 
I simply get all my characters from the real world. People I interact with daily have helped me a lot to develop my characters.

I completely agree, and wonder why more people don't seem to recognise the fact ...
 
Yeah I agree with Boneman. Characters should be imperfect and flawed to have some real depth.

Just as good characters must have flaws, the bad ones must have some virtues, as Orson Scott Card advises us.
 
Virtues and flaws are sometimes in the eyes of the beholder.

When I write, I attempt to show the cause and effect of actions. I try to deliver them with as little moral tone as possible, for one man's hero is another mans terrorist - I'm not here to preach.

I'm a great believer in characters not accepting that they are just bad or good, but having them choose the path to take at each crisis. Good men are called on to do harsh things, and the basest of self-interest can sometimes have beneficial unforseen consequences.

I think to be truly evil, you have to cause to happen or participate in events that have no justification whatsoever. What's more, you have to do this for such trivial reasons as to be inconceivable to society, and with full understanding of what you are doing.

A child that steals a loaf of bread from a baker is committing a crime, and potentially preventing the baker from earning enough to keep his family going. The child is hungry, and in that act of criminality is not seeking to punish others, just to survive. Most would consider this a justifiable act. In terms of justice however, a crime has been committed, and one that has potential knock on ramifications. What happens to the baker's lad who has to explain to his master that he has lost potential earnings, he may be beaten and be turned out of his lodgings, falling to desititution. When one looks at the cause, one cannot dismiss the effect. Obviously, this is a simple 'old world' example, but I think it makes the point.

The moral ambiguity of it is something each of us deals with on a daily level, and because we understand it, and see it everywhere, realism demands that this is played out in fictional worlds too. Characters that are "rough diamonds" or antagonists that are "misunderstood" tend to be popular. The terribly noble knight, or the evil black knight, are positions that we cannot fully empathise with. In the above case, the truly noble knight would be forced to carry out justice on the boy, and yet the evil knight would most likely support his actions (though would then rob the hungry kid and twirl his mustache a bit).

I suppose this is all a rather long-winded way of agreeing with the post above (provided no one has snuck in while I pontificate).
 

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