Writing is fun, redrafting is a killer

[sevensidedcube]

Hi Philospher
I'm on my sixth draft of the fantasy novel. The second draft was done after an editor friend read it and made (a lot!) of suggestions, so that involved major revision. The next few drafts were just editing. But after reading Revision & Self Editing by James Scott Bell the last draft and this one are seeing major revisions and editing.

And to answer your question, no, the editing phase never stops. Every time I read it, even when a section is 'finished,' I always find a minor error, or want to reword a sentence.

 

[Philosopher]

Thanks sevensidedcube at least now I know its a relatively common hurdle in trying to become an author! Would you suggest paying for an editor? or to just do as best I can and see if a lit agent or author will pick it up?

 

[The Judge]

It depends on how good your best is...

There are different types of editor.

Some are line editors -- that is they nit pick mistakes of grammar and word use. Because of the sheer amount of work involved in line editing they can cost a lot of money -- so my advice would always be to learn the job yourself -- discover how to punctuate properly, look up what words mean, search for better ways of saying things.

Other editors take the broader picture of story etc. They can also be expensive, and again it's possible to learn the job yourself through self-help manuals as sevensidedcube says. But a good editor can help you shortcut the process.

I spent a long time on my first WIP, and I have a firm grounding in grammar, punctuation and the like, so I was confident about my actual writing and my "voice". However, when I first had the book read by someone who knew what he was talking about (ie not family) he pointed out a lot of problems with it which I in my ignorance hadn't realised were problems (eg POV switches, lack of a major story arc). An agent also commented on other issues which needed help (eg lack of tension over one character). With the help of my writing group I tackled those issues, but also ran into other difficulties -- and the agent himself suggested the possibility of using a professional editor. Fortunately for me, not long afterwards Teresa started her editing business and I jumped straight in. Her help was invaluable in pinning down the problems and suggesting ideas for improving the story -- which is now immensely better.

Now, it may well be that through time and effort and the great help of my writing group, I might have arrived at the same place myself, without employing Teresa. I simply don't know. However, I do know that I won't hesitate to use her services again when I need to.

So, if you are confident of your use of English, if you have a good writing group or its equivalent who can tell you things straight, and if you are prepared to work hard, then you don't need an editor. However, you will probably only get one chance of selling a book to an agent, so it's imperative you make the most of it. If that involves asking a professional for help, and you can afford it, do it.

 

[Susan Boulton]

Do any of you find a point where you feel that the re-drafting just isn't work it anymore and you should be putting all the energy and effort into writing a different, new story?

Or do you just feel that you just can't let go of some stories?

Yes, there does come a point when you need to say, no, this isn't going to work, no matter how much I edit it. Personally I wrote and set aside four novels and all the work on them was certainly not wasted. Each time I learned more. How to construct a plot, handle characters, dialogue, POV and pacing. So when I started work on number five I was sure I could get the idea down in a form that would interest others. (Ideas had never been the problem, getting them down into a manuscript that made sense was lol) It worked, though number five did go through a number of edits before I submitted it and then two under the watchful eye of my agent.

Now I am working on my sixth and seventh novel and the ideas are coming together well. Yes, they will be drafted and redrafted and edited until I am sure they are ready, but I know I can do it now and that is because all the hard work on the pervious novels showed me how to do it (does that make sense?)

 

[Toby Frost]

Definitely seconded. When you write, you're usually getting better at writing (proper writing, that is).

As regards the over-editing issue, I once saw the first draft of 1984, typed with corrections. The page was absolutely covered in scribble. Likewise, I'm told, Beethoven's scores. But it raises a greater issue. There are, as Teresa says, millions more people writing books than 50 or 100 years ago. There are many more competitors for each novel that gets into print. My own feeling therefore is that any submitted manuscript should be as good as humanly possible to avoid giving the reader/publisher/agent any excuse to reject it at all. Although everyone can probably point to a bestseller which is rubbish, the general rule is that you need to be as good as you can - and if that takes huge amounts of editing so be it.

 

[Hex]

I'm probably on my 9th or 10th re-write (and that doesn't include language nitpicking which I do every day, it means substantive changes to plot) but - like I've said before - that's the way I work. I know it is and I'm happy with it. I can get (almost) as excited about a major re-write as I did about writing the thing in the first place.

In my experience there tends to come a stage when I simply cannot bear to look at a document anymore. It can take years for me to get there, though. It can't be solved by putting the document in a drawer for 6 months - I just can't stand to look at it and the very thought of it makes me feel sick. That's when I know it's time to let something go

 

[Stephen Palmer]

In my experience there tends to come a stage when I simply cannot bear to look at a document anymore.

We've all had that...

 

[sevensidedcube]

Thanks sevensidedcube at least now I know its a relatively common hurdle in trying to become an author! Would you suggest paying for an editor? or to just do as best I can and see if a lit agent or author will pick it up?

Hi Philospher,
TheJudge answered this beautifully, I think. There are different types of editors, and you can get an idea as to rates from the web. My editor friend went through my manuscript and for a song and a dance, made a ton of suggestions regarding weaknesses, plot holes etc, which took another year to fix, and even then, still infinite more work needed. As to a line editor, if we can learn how to do that ourselves, we will indeed save a lot of money. There are some awesomely good books available that can teach us how to do that.

Regards

 

[Stephen Palmer]

"Infinite work" means you'll never finish it

Better make that finite work!

 

[HareBrain]

I almost always prefer editing to drafting. For me, the initial writing process is filled with uncertainty (do I know what I'm doing, will the characters come alive or act like robopuppets, will the scene be as good as the vague idea I have, will I encounter a realisation that invalidates my entire plot) and this uncertainty creates stress. Once it's down in some form or other, some or most of those uncertainties have been answered (or at least, so I think) and with the groundwork done, editing can be a pleasure.

While this mindset means I don't stint on polishing-time, it means I can dither sometimes for ages before tackling a difficult chapter, though I know I'm not alone in this.

 

[STING]

As regards the over-editing issue, I once saw the first draft of 1984, typed with corrections. The page was absolutely covered in scribble. Likewise, I'm told, Beethoven's scores.

I keep reminding myself of the (widely reported) fact that Hemingway wrote the last chapter or page of his A Farewell to Arms 39 times.

And I recently took a look at O.Henry's last unfinished short story called Dream. It's on the net. He died midway through a sentence. It's quite clear that he was in the middle of a first draft and he would have changed it several times after finishing it. It wasn't simply in the style of his earlier published stories.

Here is what Jeffrey Archer said in a recent interview: "The earliest I let anyone see my work is the thirteenth draft. Before that, no one, except my secretary and me, has any clue about what’s going on. Not even Mary, my wife."

(By the way, why aren't italics, bold etc aren't working in these threads?)

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

Personally I wrote and set aside four novels and all the work on them was certainly not wasted. Each time I learned more. How to construct a plot, handle characters, dialogue, POV and pacing. So when I started work on number five I was sure I could get the idea down in a form that would interest others ...

Now I am working on my sixth and seventh novel and the ideas are coming together well. Yes, they will be drafted and redrafted and edited until I am sure they are ready, but I know I can do it now and that is because all the hard work on the pervious novels showed me how to do it ...

I've just posted a blog entry on much this same topic. Feel free, everyone, to come and comment (and even argue with me) there.

There Are No Shortcuts in Writing

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

And for anyone who is interested, I've posted another article, this one specifically on revising and editing:

Revisions I

Revisions II

Feel free to leave comments in the blog. In fact, I hope you will.