Dialogue... help?

[Boneman]

Yeah, I like the look of that, RJM... as 'reported speech' I'm worried about a comma and a capital, but the italics themselves draw the attention in the right way..

 

[The Judge]

I think I don't care enough.

Well, start caring! Words and grammar are your tools if you want to be a writer -- you should be just as careful with them as a carpenter is with his saws and chisels or whatever it is carpenters use. Knocking in a nail with a monkey wrench isn't a sign of creativity and being a free spirit.

If Word underlines in green I just fiddle about and try a few things till the greeen goes away.

Which might be exactly the wrong thing to do since the green line is frequently wrong. And, as RJM says, sometimes it is correct but it needs to be ignored for the sake of the story. Getting the grammar right is your responsibility, not the machine's. If you don't know something, find out. If you can't work out what's wrong, ask here and you shall be put right. We're good at putting people right.

I'm sure it's not just me though. Am sure a lot of people have a slapdash approach to grammar

Doubtless. There are also a lot of people who have a slapdash approach to personal hygiene, but they're not making many friends that way...


Seriously, a writer needs to be on top of the basics of punctuation and grammar and word use. It's difficult enough to persuade an agent you have a good book -- if he sees a dozen mistakes in as many lines he's going to wonder whether it is worth his time and effort to take you on. Don't give them any excuse to put your m/s down and look at someone else's work.

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

I have the spell-check on but I don't like the computer telling me how to write ... Doesn't give it the right to nag me about my grammar. Anyway, rules of grammar often don't apply to realistic dialogue

Absolutely.

And not only that, but (and I hesitate to say it, because one of these days soon someone is bound to misquote me) the rules of grammar don't always apply to the exposition. Sentence fragments, for instance, if used sparingly, can create dramatic effects. The grammar check is set up for academic papers, technical writing, or business letters, and not for the writing of fiction.

 

[Hex]

Right. More dialogue confusion.

I'm feeling a bit wobbly about capitals and dialogue.

Here's an example:
"So, Mrs Davies," he settled in his chair behind the wide wooden desk, "how can I help you?"

It's all meant to be one sentence: "So, Mrs Davies, how can I help you?" Is the capitalisation right?
Should it be:

“So, Mrs Davies,” he settled in his chair behind the wide wooden desk. “How can I help you?” ?

 

[HareBrain]

If you have a comma after "desk", and you intend the split dialogue line to be one sentence, there should be no capital "h" for "how". If you put a full-stop after "desk", then there should be a capital "H". (In that case the dialogue would read as two sentences, but that's OK here.)

However, you shouldn't have comma, then "he settled" after the first bit of dialogue, as "settled" isn't a verb indicating speech. There would have to be a full-stop after "Davies" and "he" would have a capital "H":

“So, Mrs Davies.” He settled in his chair behind the wide wooden desk. “How can I help you?”

However (again) this removes the option of having the comma after "desk", because you had to end the first bit of dialogue with a full-stop.

 

[Ursa major]

For me - and this is as much personal, I think, as grammar in action - I feel that while the dialogue could be one sentence, it doesn't have to be:

“So, Mrs Davies.” He settled in his chair behind the wide wooden desk. “How can I help you?”
​

I suppose it depends on how long the settling process is supposed to take. The fact that it's remarked upon suggests to me that it isn't him simply relaxing into the chair, but a more elaborate process. (Or it could be that it's not a simple action but includes description, making it read longer. And that 'wide' adds to the feeling. I can almost see the camera slowly moving across the desk from the 'he' towards Mrs Davies.)

In the above version, the first section of dialogue ends rather abruptly, so I'd be tempted to add an ellipsis before the full stop:

“So, Mrs Davies....” He settled in his chair behind the wide wooden desk. “How can I help you?”
​

If you want to keep the dialogue as one sentence, I feel the need to add something else; for example:

“So, Mrs Davies --” he settled in his chair behind the wide wooden desk “-- how can I help you?”

or

“So, Mrs Davies...” he settled in his chair behind the wide wooden desk “...how can I help you?”
​

I much prefer the version with two sentence of dialogue, though.

 

[Mouse]

HareBrain's beat me to it, but yeah, was gonna say 'he settled' has nothing to do with the dialogue so no comma.

I'd write: “So, Mrs Davies,” he said, settling in his chair behind the wide wooden desk, “how can I help you?”

Or if you don't want the 'he said' then full stop it.

 

[Pallas Athena]

I like Mouse's choice for structuring that sentence.

As for using colons in dialogue, the only author I remember using that was Ken Follett in Pillars of the Earth. (Since it's the only Ken Follett book I've read, he might use that punctuation mark in dialogue in all of them so the citation is only to show where I have seen it used.)

I found it visually distracting and wished he had used commas instead. Then again, it might just be a British style of writing and since I'm American, I found it unusual and therefore distracting.

For example:

Jack said angrily: "What's that devil doing here?"

I am more accustomed to seeing it written as:

Jack said angrily, "What's that devil doing here?"


I do not care for colons in fiction. I am also not a fan of semicolons, but will use them on occasion.

And I hate ellipses. I think of them as harsh spices that should be used sparingly. I do use them, but my teeth grind when I see them used with too much frequency.

As for the attribution of said being invisible, I understand the argument. I do not happen to agree with it, but I know that this has been said often enough to writers that many take it on faith. Therefore, using anything other than said and an occasional asked, whispered or shouted is a pet peeve of many people. To avoid irritating people, I try to refrain myself in using many other dialogue attributions that I would otherwise prefer.

 

[Phoenixthewriter]

Wonderful thread! I learned a few things here that actually make me both happy that I've done things right, and then kick myself that I pretty much have to rewrite every piece of quoted text to replace periods with commas.

Since day one I've written like this.

"You've got to me kidding me." She said.

Just like that, period within the quote and capitalizing the tag. I've probably got a good week of editing to change all I've done, but all the same, I can't complain to know how its supposed to be done.

 

[Droflet]

Hello Phoenix.

Since day one I've written like this.

"You've got to me kidding me." She said.

Really? Perhaps you might try: "You've got to be kidding me," she said.

Or is that what you meant? Good luck, T.

 

[Flugel Meister]

I generally have quite good dialogue. I imagine the scene, the characters and their voices. But one thing does niggle away at the back of my mind.

If the dialogue is very long and by the same person and not broken up by any other actions, etc, how do you write the dialogue? Would you require a new paragraph of dialogue? And if so, how do you do it?

I don't really have any examples to use, so excuse this crude method of delivery.

'Text, text, text text, text, text, text, text, text, text, text ,text, text, text, text, text, text, text.'

'Text, text...' And so on.

 

[Ursa major]

The usual method for formatting a long section of dialogue is very similar to doing so for the narrative, i.e. by dividing it into paragraphs. Hence:

"This is a sentence in a long piece of dialogue," Jim said. "This is a sentence in a long piece of dialogue. This is a sentence in a long piece of dialogue. This is a sentence in a long piece of dialogue. This is a sentence in a long piece of dialogue. This is a sentence in a long piece of dialogue. This is a sentence in a long piece of dialogue.

"This is a sentence in a long piece of dialogue. This is a sentence in a long piece of dialogue. This is a sentence in a long piece of dialogue. This is a sentence in a long piece of dialogue. This is a sentence in a long piece of dialogue. This is a sentence in a long piece of dialogue. This is a sentence in a long piece of dialogue."

The key to the reader understanding what's going on is that the second paragraph of dialogue begins with a quotation mark (I've used double quotes in this example), but the paragraph before does not end with a quotation mark.



If my example had been written thus:

"This is a sentence in a long piece of dialogue," Jim said. "This is a sentence in a long piece of dialogue. This is a sentence in a long piece of dialogue. This is a sentence in a long piece of dialogue. This is a sentence in a long piece of dialogue. This is a sentence in a long piece of dialogue. This is a sentence in a long piece of dialogue."

"This is a sentence in a long piece of dialogue. This is a sentence in a long piece of dialogue. This is a sentence in a long piece of dialogue. This is a sentence in a long piece of dialogue. This is a sentence in a long piece of dialogue. This is a sentence in a long piece of dialogue. This is a sentence in a long piece of dialogue."

the presence of the closing quote at the end of the first paragraph would let the reader know that another character** is speaking the words in the second paragraph.


One can use a quotation mark at the end of the first (or whatever) paragraph. The following does so to allow some narration to be added.

"This is a sentence in a long piece of dialogue. This is a sentence in a long piece of dialogue. This is a sentence in a long piece of dialogue. This is a sentence in a long piece of dialogue. This is a sentence in a long piece of dialogue. This is a sentence in a long piece of dialogue."

Jim scratched his ear. "This is a sentence in a long piece of dialogue. This is a sentence in a long piece of dialogue. This is a sentence in a long piece of dialogue. This is a sentence in a long piece of dialogue. This is a sentence in a long piece of dialogue. This is a sentence in a long piece of dialogue. This is a sentence in a long piece of dialogue."

In this example, the narration lets the reader know that Jim is still talking.




** - One would hope that the context would make it clear to the reader who this was.

 

[Flugel Meister]

Thought as much. Thanks, Ursa.

It's odd how little areas of writing present themselves to be a little more difficult.

 

[Ursa major]

I think it's because while we understand the rules when we're reading, we do it automatically, without consciously thinking about it. When we begin to write fiction, we have to have the rules in the front of our mind. Later on it becomes automatic, as with the reading.

(And when reading your first examples of writing, you may not always notice that you've misapplied the rules, if only because you knew what you meant when you wrote it and so you may not be analysing what you wrote but what you think you did. If that makes sense. )

 

[Flugel Meister]

(And when reading your first examples of writing, you may not always notice that you've misapplied the rules, if only because you knew what you meant when you wrote it and so you may not be analysing what you wrote but what you think you did. If that makes sense. )

Completely!

Guilty as charged.

 

[Pallas Athena]

If the dialogue is very long and by the same person and not broken up by any other actions, etc, how do you write the dialogue? Would you require a new paragraph of dialogue? And if so, how do you do it?

I agree with Ursa Major's example of how you should punctuate dialogue that would span two paragraphs, however I would caution against doing it that way.

That is because I think you *should* break up monologues with actions. Even if it is the character wiping his brow while giving a speech at a podium or glancing at his ex-wife to see her reaction to something. Having a large block of text of dialogue without any action is similar to having talking heads in space. Those heads need to be grounded with more than just balloon strings to keep them tethered to the earth.

I try thinking of my characters as being actors and visualizing what they are doing. It is boring if actors simply sit on a couch and talk with one another. Have one stand up and pace while he is talking, have the listener turn their back and burst into tears. Something other than quietly waiting their turn to respond.

After all, fiction is supposed to be taking the boring things out of Life.

 

[Mouse]

I like Mouse's choice for structuring that sentence.

Woo! I win.

 

[Phoenixthewriter]

Hi Telford,

That's exactly what I meant. I realized my mistake about 120 pages too late lol. Gotta go back and change everything to your correction example.