Crystal Shade - Opening (1386 words)

[Freelancer]

I'm doing to final rewrite in the opening of my fantasy trilogy and I'm curious, after this opening would you want to read it further or not? You may consider this part as some sort of prologue, however it will be titled as Chapter 1 because of a reason.


Crystal Shade: Angeni, Volume 1

“Thousands of stars could tell thousands of stories,” whispered the old man with a gentle smile. “I hope others also see the story of our beautiful star.”

Decades creased the countenance of the weary old man. He propped himself at the balcony, the silky wind ruffling his grey hair. His aged eyes never tired of the stars that pierced the infinite night sky. But despite the enchanting skyscape, his soul, which desired endless peace, was restless. He had one final promise he had made ages ago still unfulfilled; to share the past with those living in the present. A long held secret, a story to tell. Sorrow embraced him as he knew as the sun rose to greet a new day, one unheard story would pass along with him to vanish for eternity. And the time was close.

His sigh as soft as the night breeze, the old man pulled his robe tighter around him before he wandered away from the balcony. Slippered feet chafed against the cold stone floor as he shuffled to the middle of the large hall. Images of fighting angels and demons in the agony of their long forgotten war adorned the eleven immense columns surrounding a strange chrono device.

Thousands of energy orbs formed the mass of a majestic miniature galaxy under the tip of the long tapered crystal shard. Each star, a shiny orb, in this chrono device shined its story, its own truth on different color; sapphire, orange, red, green, and purple were just a few among countless other colors without a known name. Clear and bright, the shard hovered untethered over the middle of this tiny world like some large mystical sundial.

The little galaxy gracefully turned between the stalwart columns. It seemed so peaceful and magnificent, but its true purpose was hidden behind its enchanting mask. The shard’s polished surface mirrored the tired face of the old man who watched the device with endless respect. His eyes focused on the shadow of the sundial, which slowly crept around the crystal shard. The shadow didn’t come from the sun, which slept beyond the horizon as night stood silent sentry outside. It came from the shard itself. Even now, some of the orbs within the crystal’s untouchable dark shadow slowly changed color.

The old man closed his eyes for a moment. He was still in the hall, but his mind was far away in a forgotten world.

Majestic golden and silver colored eagle shaped crafts appeared in the bright blue sky to fly in formation under the brilliance of the sapphire sun; its eternal glow reflected from their metal bodies and sectioned wings. The crafts dove into battle against hideous dark flying creatures. Like dozens of sleek predatory birds, they fought against the evil web-winged enemies. Hunted down one by one, the metal bird craft were ripped to pieces and their wrecks left to explode in the hot white sands where another battle raged.

Among the white dunes, brave winged warriors, evil demons and humans in their shiny armor battled desperately with their crystal weapons to challenge death itself. The old man could still see the eyes of the fallen that knew they had no chance for survival, but were determined to die with courage for something that in they believed. Dignity filled their eyes, even in their last moments seeing the blade of death before it struck them down. But they never failed to bravely face their destiny.

This vision was banished by a bright flash, to be replaced by another. The old man stood in the middle of the crystal shard. Alone. Intense white light surrounded his body, young and healthy once more. An illusion of his blurred memory, he felt energy strings from the crystal tentatively run over his body and embraced him like a caring mother with her beloved child. He knew the energy strings would not harm him. His consciousness became one with the crystal. Alas, this was a long time ago, maybe in another life.Everything around him became a blur, and voices echoed in his mind as the crystal shard forced him to remember, to never forget.

A wise voice emerged with certainty. No one comes back from there alive, it declared.

That is my rightful place! shouted a distorted, chaotic voice. How dare you, puppet!

I’m sick of people dying because of you! This ends, not just for the next Crystal Shade! But forever! his own young voice shouted.

I will be with you. Always, whispered a kind female voice that flooded the old man with endless love, snapping him back to reality.

He sighed as he studied the crystal chrono device. One of the red orbs shaded by the crystal suddenly changed to azure. The shadow of the crystal was forced away from that area. The old man’s fond smile returned.

“You never rest, old friend. You never rest,” his soft voice addressed the crystal. “Our destiny ties us together. We will meet again. Soon.”


The light flicker of soft footsteps was accompanied by a stifled chuckle behind one of the columns. The old man’s head bowed slowly as he curiously approached the column, but his memories rushed to remember him again for the forgotten past.

In his mind, he was young again and stepped between the shadowed columns of a marvellous dark temple. Sapphire sun streamed in stripes through the stone balcony and window casements. The chuckling of a young woman, different what he heard moments ago, caught his attention. A dark silhouette of a woman passed between two columns. His eyes tried to follow it, but the friendly shadows hided her as she reached the pillar. Silence.

The brown eyes mirrored the slick rune-covered columns before they noticed the shadows of the woman at the corner of a pillar. He moved ahead in silence to catch her from behind; it was an age-old game they had played forever. But as he reached the woman’s still, dark silhouette, it dissolved in his arms as he tried to hold her.

Outwitted again, the old man hung his head as he found himself again in the reality, between the walls and columns of his little sanctuary. There was no hiding the loving smile that broke his heart anew. He did not want to remember. While most of his memories gave him happiness, some only caused pain. This was one of them.

The muffled chuckle of a child hit his ears once again. It came from behind the closest column.

“I got you,” the old man crowed as he looked behind the stone pillar. But no one was there.

“No! We got you!” a little girl shouted victoriously from behind him.

The old man raised his hands and slowly turned around, his loving smile stretched into a grin that only a grandfather could achieve. “I give up.”

The little girl and boy who tricked him stood right in front of him, grinning in merry conquest.

“You may consider yourself the prisoner of the Knight of the Light,” the young boy proclaimed, his wooden sword pointed at the old man’s belly.

“Oh, I’m too old to be a prisoner, young knight,” responded the old man.

The boy and the girl looked at each other, and then the girl stepped forward and crossed her arms.

“On behalf of Princess of the Celestials—just to make that clear, that’s me...” She pointed at herself proudly, “You may redeem yourself, prisoner. For a prize.” Then she could not stop impishly grinning up at the old man as he played along.

Amused, the old man shook his head and smiled. He recognized the girl’s behavior, and her mischievous smile, too. The little one had learned, rather, inherited this behavior from someone who meant everything to the old man.

“And what would that prize be, little Princess?” he asked with a curious glance at the child.

“Tell us a story,” the boy added with a grin not unlike his sister’s.

“A story?”

“Yes. A story about brave knights and be-a-utiful princesses,” the girl added in graceful majesty while she gestured slowly. This gesture was also so familiar to the old man.

“And war, where valiant heroes are born,” the boy added.

“Can you tell a story about her?” the girl asked wistfully. The young boy nodded his agreement.

 

[RJM Corbet]

I would suggest starting the piece with these two paragraphs to give your intro extra punch? You will need to slightly re-arrange to accommodate the change? But not much. It will be worth it?


The light flicker of soft footsteps was accompanied by a stifled chuckle behind one of the columns. The old man’s head bowed slowly as he curiously approached the column. but his memories rushed to remember him again for the forgotten past (remove).

In his mind, he was young again and (again. He) stepped between the shadowed columns of a marvellous dark (choose either 'marvellous' or 'dark' here, not both) temple. Sapphire sun streamed in stripes through the stone balcony and window casements. The chuckling of a young woman, different (from) what he (had) heard moments ago, caught his attention. A (The) dark silhouette of a woman passed between two columns. His (columns, and his) eyes tried to follow it, but the friendly shadows hided her as she reached the pillar. Silence ...


And take it on from there? Sorry, it looks like huge red ink, but they're mostly just small punctuation quibbles? No need to say 'just my opinion' (but I'm saying it anyway). Also, good stuff ...

 

[Freelancer]

Thanks! Now, unfortunately all the descriptions, all those "events" prior this snippet has an essence. The story starts where it must start (And personally I don't like the "jump right into the clear and present action" openings as I used to feel them too forced. This is why I started this as I started. The gentle opening is my personal mania. Don't take it personally.).

(choose either 'marvellous' or 'dark' here, not both)

Sometimes I use more modifiers as it's giving more colorful descriptions. It's one of my writing "trademark". My readers used to like it. However it doesn't mean I'm right and it won't bother others.

And take it on from there? No need to say 'just my opinion' (but I'm saying it anyway) ...

Every opinion is a valid opinion and I appreciate yours.

 

[RJM Corbet]

... Every opinion is a valid opinion and I appreciate yours.

Sure, no problem, and that's all they are, opinions. The problem with too many 'modifiers' as you call them (nice word, actually) is that they can send the reader's mind off on tangents? Sometimes that may be deliberate, but in an intro, where you're still working on capturing your reader's interest enough at least to turn the page, that may be a little dangerous?

I do tend to agree with you about the 'jump straight in' thing. It may be just a pesky modern stylistic writing device that will die a natural death. Writers like Tolstoy don't use it, but that was in the days before movies, you tube and laptops. You may well be right there ...

 

[Hex]

It's wonderful that you're so secure in what you do and you write with such confidence.

I had one tiny question, you say: "immense columns surrounding a strange chrono device" and I wondered who thought the device was "strange"? It sort of pulled me out of the world while I wondered why it was strange and if it was strange to the old man.

For my taste - which is of course just mine - there are a few too many modifiers. Many of them are lovely descriptions but I found some a bit overwhelming. Isn't it interesting how people have such different tastes in what they read?

 

[Freelancer]

It's wonderful that you're so secure in what you do and you write with such confidence.

That confidence is just an illusion. It's really hard to write in a language which is not even my native language.

I had one tiny question, you say: "immense columns surrounding a strange chrono device" and I wondered who thought the device was "strange"? It sort of pulled me out of the world while I wondered why it was strange and if it was strange to the old man.

This is a good point. Maybe that strange shouldn't be there as it's not strange for the old man. But it could be strange for the reader... well. I'll have to meditate on this one.

For my taste - which is of course just mine - there are a few too many modifiers. Many of them are lovely descriptions but I found some a bit overwhelming.

In this world many of the modifiers are necessary, especially the color modifiers as every color is capable to tell much more than the color (It's one of my experiments in this world, where colors and other modifiers are capable to tell much more. So a single modifier is capable to explain few things without writing them down over and over again as the reader hopefully will be able to connect an event, a skill or anything else with one simple modifier.). I just hope the readers will be able to adapt to this and when they look back they'll say; yes, those modifiers are necessary there and now I see it.

Of course, as I said, it's an experiment what I developed for this world. This is the second reason of modifiers. Hopefully it's going to work.

 

[Freelancer]

Sure, no problem, and that's all they are, opinions. The problem with too many 'modifiers' as you call them (nice word, actually) is that they can send the reader's mind off on tangents? Sometimes that may be deliberate, but in an intro, where you're still working on capturing your reader's interest enough at least to turn the page, that may be a little dangerous?

Maybe it's a little dangerous, but hopefully it's also going to be a great pay off for the reader. As I experienced during the beta reads of the previous version these modifiers were capable to expand the imagination of the readers and with it, they got a clearer picture about this world.

I do tend to agree with you about the 'jump straight in' thing. It may be just a pesky modern stylistic writing device that will die a natural death. Writers like Tolstoy don't use it ...

I'm not Tolstoy, however I love the writers of his era. For me, the present writing style is maybe in the lack of colors and the descriptions are falling into the backround. Sometimes it's good, if you know how the fantasy world look like. i.e. if it has knights, elves, dwarves, archaic weapons, etc, etc... you don't have to use modifiers at all as everyone knows exactly how these thing look like. In Crystal Shade none of the mentioned elements are present (Regardless I use the word knight and princess. So, I also must use some modifiers to describe the new elements.

 

[terryweide]

There is a nice, dream-like quality to this opening that I do connect with and that does pull me in. Further on, the kind, female voice that floods the old man with endless love is an especially nice touch.

Having said that, I agree with what RJM was suggesting. It is modifier or adjective heavy. Some of them like "infinite" in front of night sky, "tired" and "weary" in front of old man, are unnecessary. The biggest thing I'd cut back on would be the use of "old man," or perhaps just "old." Maybe simply replace a few of those with "he" or "the man." Once you've established he's old, you don't keep to keep repeating that. The readers will create their own mental images of what he looks like. One or two reinforcements here and there will be enough to keep those mental images going.

I think that if you send this story out to an editor/publisher and they're interested in it, they may wind up telling you to trim the adjectives anyway. That may be a criticism you will hear.

On the plus side, I do like that dream-like, slightly floating away style you have here. Good luck with it.

 

[Freelancer]

There is a nice, dream-like quality to this opening that I do connect with and that does pull me in. Further on, the kind, female voice that floods the old man with endless love is an especially nice touch.

I'm glad you like the female part as that character has a key role in the story. I also love to operate with elements like this.

Having said that, I agree with what RJM was suggesting. It is modifier or adjective heavy. Some of them like "infinite" in front of night sky, "tired" and "weary" in front of old man, are unnecessary. The biggest thing I'd cut back on would be the use of "old man," or perhaps just "old." Maybe simply replace a few of those with "he" or "the man." Once you've established he's old, you don't keep to keep repeating that. The readers will create their own mental images of what he looks like. One or two reinforcements here and there will be enough to keep those mental images going.

I'll try to keep this in my mind. This is the last rewrite and most part is filled with parts what you mentioned. Then I'll try to reduce them where it's necessary. This goes up to repair list.

I think that if you send this story out to an editor/publisher and they're interested in it, they may wind up telling you to trim the adjectives anyway. That may be a criticism you will hear.

If there are mistakes in it, I must rework them, even without editors. But thank you. Now, this novel won't go out to publishers anymore as it's been rejected more than... 60-70 times (Usually without even being read). Maybe much more. I lost to count after a time. So it will be self-published in November. It already has a little website; http://www.crystalshadeangeni.com and a fanpage; http://www.facebook.com/CrystalShadeAngeni. So I prepare this novel to be a self published. For my luck I have a good editor so hopefully she will do the rest before the release. I'm just doing the very last rewrite in the story, expand or reduce it where necessary. As always, we shall see what the future may bring. I hope the bests.

On the plus side, I do like that dream-like, slightly floating away style you have here. Good luck with it.

I'm glad you like it and thank you very much.

 

[slack]

I thought the dialogue was sluggish and too often loaded down with an action inside the tag. The simple "he said" is rarely used; is there a reason why? I ask because this writing sometimes gave me the impression it was desperately trying to avoid that particular tag.

 

[Freelancer]

I thought the dialogue was sluggish and too often loaded down with an action inside the tag. The simple "he said" is rarely used; is there a reason why? I ask because this writing sometimes gave me the impression it was desperately trying to avoid that particular tag.

You feel it right. But it's not desperate. It's intentional. I try to avoid that particular tag. I want to present emotions with d-tags. Speaking and having a conversation, even between an adult and a child is a complex motion in the reality. "he said" is not complex, but it's rather dry and it's used to be bothering the readers if it's heavily repeated in a dialoge. However you're right. It's maybe faster. But it's also drier and dry is the last effect what I want to achieve (My last rewrite is also touching this part. I rather avoid the "he said" where I can and I leave it blank if necessary, instead of using it. But where I can and if it's not killing the pacing, I add tags. But it semms I still have to work on it a bit...). Thanks for bringing this up!

 

[Nik]

In haste, so a couple of minor 'gotchas'...

chrono device shined its story ~~ ... shone ...

'crafts' is wrong in this context, IIRC, as 'craft' is itself a group-word like 'sheep'. Tweak context for disambiguation...

Otherwise, IMHO, it reads quite well, just needs a bit of tidying.

 

[slack]

You feel it right. But it's not desperate. It's intentional. I try to avoid that particular tag. I want to present emotions with d-tags. Speaking and having a conversation, even between an adult and a child is a complex motion in the reality. "he said" is not complex, but it's rather dry [...]

It could be argued that dialogue tags are not the place to dump emotions. Most of that work is done earlier in the body of the writing. You are right, though. The "said" attribute is not complex; that is the beauty of it, I think. The word is as invisible as words can be.

Good luck with your publishing endeavors.

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

It could be argued that dialogue tags are not the place to dump emotions.

It could be argued, and it has been argued, and I absolutely agree. Some would even argue that "saidbookisms" should be eliminated entirely, though I think that is an extreme position, and don't agree with it myself.

But emotion belongs in the dialogue itself, in the body language, stage business, facial expressions, in the general atmosphere of a scene, in the way the characters relate to each other, in the nuances of the language, in the very sounds of the words -- and if it is lacking in all these places so that it becomes necessary to, as you say, "dump" it in the dialogue tags, then something is wrong. And where there are too many unnecessary saidbookisms in the dialogue tags, it's as though the writer is saying to the reader, "I don't expect you to get what I am saying, so I'm going to spell it out for you." Which is either insulting to the reader or betrays a lack of confidence on the part of the writer. Either way, it makes the writer appear inexperienced.

 

[Freelancer]

In haste, so a couple of minor 'gotchas'...

Thanks for these gotchas. The whole script will go to my editor, so hopefully she is going to eliminate all these little thingies.

It could be argued that dialogue tags are not the place to dump emotions. Most of that work is done earlier in the body of the writing.

Maybe, but if you want to present your characters realistic they should have parallel actions during their dialogue. Otherwise they'll appear as puppets who can do one thing at a time. Move or speak. With the "write first" then use "he said" is this puppet method and there is beauty in it as it seems artificial and wooden (As always it's my personal opinion). Your character can act prior or after the dialogue, but can't do anything parallel with it as the "he said" is killing even the chance to do anything else (It's giving the same impression when the puppeteer can do only one thing at a time with the puppet. Move or speak, move or speak.).

Good luck with your publishing endeavors.

Thank you very much.

"I don't expect you to get what I am saying, so I'm going to spell it out for you."

I have to agree with this. One of the examples what I used to see is the "What?" he asked. First of all, the dialogue itself explains the d-tag itself (The question mark already explains it's a question.). Same goes for "he said". When we have a standard dialogue and you can feel it from the dialogue itself (And presumably you'll as the sentence is between "s), the "he said" is not necessary at all. Yet when I read a conversation which has more "he said", "she said" than stars in the sky, that can be really bothering as there is the point where the writer believes the reader is the retard and he rather explains to him "you moron, this is a conversation". Only the neon letters are missing. The second option is much worse as the too many "he said" is making the impression the writer is lazy to develop the characters or worse, the writer can't express himself at all (Lack of volcabulary). And also the previously mentioned wooden acting comes into the picture, as, when I imagine those "he said" lines, I imagine two motionless character standing in front of each other like two wooden puppet and do only one thing... they speak with a poker face. So this is the general problem with "he said" and this is my personal reason I prefer "saidbookism" instead. I don't want to appear lazy and I don't want to be a bad puppeteer.

Some would even argue that "saidbookisms" should be eliminated entirely

I experienced "saidbookism" is similar to "infodumps". There are no true infodumps as the writer is giving those parts by a reason, just endless impatience of the reader (However if something can be written shorter, write it shorter. That's true.). The "saidbookism should be eliminated" is also said by those who are impatient or has a very limited vocabulary (As the knowledge of the author is offending the reader's ego.). There was a nice article about this somewhere what I read few years ago.

Which is either insulting to the reader

Previous part, cont'd. People are way too sensitive in the 21st century, so it's not a hard task. And as a writer you shouldn't care with this as your primary job is to write the story what you want to tell and not to fulfilll every itsy-bitsy wish of the reader who wants to see B if you write A. Writers are not geniis.

Either way, it makes the writer appear inexperienced.

I don't believe that Tolkien, Forester or others were inexperienced who are well known of their saidbookism.

Here is an example why saidbookism is necessary.

"I can't sleep!" the little girl wailed. (Precise, correct description)
"I can't sleep!" the little girl said (It's not really said after you already has an exclamation mark, plus you can't imagine the character's true emotion from the sentence.)
"I can't sleeeeeeep!!!" the little girl said. (The usual rookie description.)

However words has a meaning, you can't use "said" in every possible scenario... unless you want to describe a very limited scenario or you can't express what you really want.

 

[RJM Corbet]

... Either way, it makes the writer appear inexperienced.

That is entirely true. 'Saidbookisms' can become extremely irritating. Breathed. croaked, yelled, mumbled, smiled, and so on, do have their place as tags but not just to avoid using 'said'. The dialogue should 'speak for itself', with an unobtrusive tag now and then to identify who's speaking where necessary.

But I didn't find myself tripping up on 'saidbookisms' in Freelancer's piece ...

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

I said if you use too many saidbookisms you look inexperienced, not that you shouldn't use them at all. And you seem to be confused here. No one is saying that you should use "said" instead of identifying who is speaking by way of body language or action (which do not qualify as dialogue tags). But words like "proclaimed" and "responded" don't make up for the wooden puppet problem you mentioned (usually called "talking heads"), because it's still just a way of identifying that the person is speaking and (possibly) their tone of voice. They remain standing still as a statue.

Moreover, words like "responded" and "asked" are often unnecessary, since questions are usually easy to identify (the question mark sort of gives it away) and readers should be able to tell when something is a response (it addresses what the previous speaker just said) without being led by the hand. And of course a writer should have a great vocabulary, but the dialogue tags are not the place to prove it. That's the easy way. Newbie writers get lists of saidbookisms and they think they are set to go. The important thing is not to use them as a crutch.

To say that you are copying the way that Tolkien or Forester did something is no excuse, unless you can do it as well as they did.

And as a writer you shouldn't care with this as your primary job is to write the story what you want to tell

Only if you are writing simply as a hobby and don't mean to show the writing to anyone else. Otherwise, the writer's primary job is to communicate the story that he or she wants to tell.

Bogging the story down with excess words does not aid communication, because as soon as a reader suspects that the writer is saying little to the point, he or she begins to skim and in that way often misses things that are important. One thing that writers have to learn is when it is a case of modern readers being too impatient and when it is a case of writing that would try anyone's patience. If you choose the right word, the specific word, the word with the precise meaning you are trying to convey, it can do the work of ten. Also, much can be communicated by way of inference. Tolkien, of course, knew all this. He studied words and their origins all of his life, and it might be said that he knew them when they were babies.

And I don't believe you quite understand the concept of an info-dump. An info-dump is when you give too much information too soon, so that it ceases to be effective. It overwhelms readers with too many details, too many to remember, so that they don't remember it by the time that it is important for them to know it. It is better to feed these things in gradually, so that they can be assimilated and internalized. That way, you can include all of the same information, while slowly building up the impression of a rich and complex world, layer on layer. Offer it all at once like items on a table at a fleamarket, and it just looks like a collection of random facts on a flat surface, rather than creating any sense of depth.

Of course there are times when it is important to include a long explanation, but then great care should be taken to make that explanation as lively and interesting as possible, so that readers don't feel that the writer is lecturing them. Otherwise, they'll be wondering, "Why am I expected to learn all of this now, and will there be a test?"

 

[Freelancer]

I said if you use too many saidbookisms you look inexperienced

I try to use them where I must. If I look inexperienced because of it, but if it's also capable to expand the imagination of the readers and they also get a better picture because of them... I believe I take this risk.

Moreover, words like "responded" and "asked" are often unnecessary, since questions are usually easy to identify (the question mark sort of gives it away) and readers should be able to tell when something is a response (it addresses what the previous speaker just said) without being led by the hand.

That's true. However you must apply some sort of D-Tag when you have more characters than two in the scene as you must tell the reader who is responding (I have three.).

To say that you are copying the way that Tolkien or Forester did something is no excuse, unless you can do it as well as they did.

I'm not intending to copy anyone. I try to create my own style, just as I create my own fantasy world (There are no knight, elves, dwarves, etc, etc... it's not a LOTR ripoff.). But the mentioned writers also well known for their saidbookism.

Only if you are writing simply as a hobby and don't mean to show the writing to anyone else. Otherwise, the writer's primary job is to communicate the story that he or she wants to tell.

I believe I said the same. Communication is essental, but telling the story is your primary job. You're right, you must communicate the story, but you tell the story what you want to tell and not what readers want to hear (Otherwise it's going to be predictible.).

One thing that writers have to learn is when it is a case of modern readers being too impatient and when it is a case of writing that would try anyone's patience. If you choose the right word, the specific word, the word with the precise meaning you are trying to convey, it can do the work of ten.

True. During the test reads Crystal Shade also went through on this. I tested it with two specific groups. The first group was the one which love fantasy and hard reads and the other was who hated fantasy and / or prefered easy reads. With the exception of one reader out of thirty, the descriptions passed this test. This single reader gave few advice which would make the descriptions maybe friendlier and after I changed those things, the script also passed in her eyes (I needed to replace few words, add or reduce few elements here and there, just as you mentioned.)

And I don't believe you quite understand the concept of an info-dump. An info-dump is when you give too much information too soon, so that it ceases to be effective.

This is the reason why I said; shorten it if it's possible. I understand the concept of infodumps, but sometimes nowaday readers has the problem if they must read a four sentence long description and they call it as an infodump. That's impatience. Some older books had four pages long descriptions and those wasn't infodumps either. Now if you write down a four sentence long description, that's already considered as infodump (While the details are there where they should be.). This is the reason why I say there are no true infodumps, but endless impatience. However when I see that the writer is writing down a starship to the very last service tubes... that's also not infodump as the writer is writing those details by a reason. But if you can shorten the description, do it and add some details elsewhere.

It overwhelms readers with too many details, too many to remember, so that they don't remember it by the time that it is important for them to know it.

True. You must add the details at the right places or you must make it really memorable if it's appearing prior where it should be.

It is better to feed these things in gradually, so that they can be assimilated and internalized. That way, you can include all of the same information, while slowly building up the impression of a rich and complex world, layer on layer.

I use this layer on layer method. That's why my betas had no problem with the detailed world (Actually world building got one of the best marks of all, A+ to A+++ in most cases.).

Of course there are times when it is important to include a long explanation, but then great care should be taken to make that explanation as lively and interesting as possible, so that readers don't feel that the writer is lecturing them. Otherwise, they'll be wondering, "Why am I expected to learn all of this now, and will there be a test?"

Checkov's gun. In Crystal Shade I always use everything by a reason. When something is there, it has a reason (Sometimes it also has a double or triple meaning.). Layer on a layer, which is also on a layer.

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

In Crystal Shade I always use everything by a reason. When something is there, it has a reason.

That is so obvious that it hardly needs to be said. We all have our reasons for doing what we do -- but that doesn't always mean that they are good reasons. Sometimes we have to rethink those reasons, because the result may not justify our original thinking.

And now, as a moderator, I think I should point out -- since you seem to be making a habit of it -- that it is not considered polite to argue with critiques. If you wish for a clarification of what a critiquer is saying, or you wish to solicit specific suggestions, then you can engage in a dialogue with those doing the critiques, but otherwise, when you disagree, the correct response is to say, "Thank you" and then quietly go off and write the book in any way that you see fit.

 

[Freelancer]

That is so obvious that it hardly needs to be said. We all have our reasons for doing what we do -- but that doesn't always mean that they are good reasons.

Sometimes you must point out as sometimes your reasons are being questioned if someone is reading just a sample, but doesn't read the whole piece. This is the reason I mention this as sometimes it's not obvious (I'm speaking in general, not about this conversation). And if the readers sees only one half of the picture, sometimes you must tell them the other side so they can see; is it really a placeholder or is it rightfully there. Sometimes they must see the whole picture to have a chance to give a realistic opinion. I'm intending to give this chance to the people if they're already spending some time and giving me valuable critiques.

I think I should point out -- since you seem to be making a habit of it -- that it is not considered polite to argue with critiques.

I'm not arguing with anyone as all of you have right in few things and I never denied that, but I rather said thanks for the observations. However as critiquers sometimes doesn't know the background of why few things are existing in a sample as they don't read it as a whole, I also tell these backgrounds when they mention it (As with it, they'll see the whole picture and will know the true reasons behind a part or two.). It's a simple conversation. And after this I still can be wrong and the critiquer also can be right.

"Thank you" and then quietly go off

Conversations used to reveal what I see wrong or what I see right. As you look back, this conversation is rather useful as all of us are telling our view and all of us are telling to the other one why we see things on a way as we see them. It's called as experience and opinion exchange. It's a standard element in basic human conversations. Sorry that I'm not nodding drone, but I love to speak with people to reveal every aspect of elements, to hear why do they see as they see things and also to teach me, to learn from them if I'm wrong. You won't learn anything by quietly going off as you won't learn the reason and why the critiquer said what he or she said.

However I would agree with you if this would go in live, after the whole work has been released. That time, yes, watching the events quietly is better. But this is just a sample which was presented to learn if there is anything wrong in it and if yes, what is it and why the critiquers says what they says. Again; you can't learn that by going of quietly.

And now, as a moderator

But this is the point what I don't really understand. Do you want to use your rank to have right in a simple conversation? I'm just curious and I rather ask.

Again, I'd like to say thank to all of you for the comments and advices. They were very helpful.