Robert E Howard - Conan and Friends!

[BAYLOR]

Which Conan stories do folks think come closest to transcending the limitations of mere pulp entertainment? It's a while since I read very many of them. My impression is that "Tower of the Elephant" is one, and "Beyond the Black River" another -- stories that are more than mere exercises in pulp exploitation. Conversely, "The Slithering Shadow" is just that. It really is trash.

The Phoenix on the Sword and The People of the Back Circle perhaps ?

 

[Extollager]

Baylor, would you like to say why you think so? I’ve read these stories and am not sure what the case for their transcending pulp entertainment would be.

 

[BAYLOR]

Baylor, would you like to say why you think so? I’ve read these stories and am not sure what the case for their transcending pulp entertainment would be.

The Phoenix on the Sword King Conan fall into a sleep and finds himself the tomb of the 1500 years dead sage Epimetrius who tells him he's in danger of being overthrown and killed and other worse dangers coming give a Phoenix mark on his sword to destroy a demon sent by the Stygian Sorcerer Toth Amon . The scene in the Tomb and of what Conan beholds there and and Epimetrius, elevates this story above mere pulp . It is very well written polished fantasy story . And, for the record , this was also originally a King Kull story .

The People of the Black Circle in the story the character Devi Yasmina sister to rule of the kingdom Vendhaya goes after the Black Circle wizards who murdered him. They capture her and they show her , her past lives and show her human existence life and death and rebirth. This elevates the story and also fact that the secondary character gets a respectable amount of air time in this story.


And to your mind ,what makes Tower of the Elephant and Beyond the Black River stand out? And for the record ,I do think they are both excellent stories.

 

[Extollager]

Baylor, you're asking about something I wrote ten years ago, which is fine in itself, but I'm not prepared to discuss it now. : )

 

[BAYLOR]

Baylor, you're asking about something I wrote ten years ago, which is fine in itself, but I'm not prepared to discuss it now. : )

Ops sorry.

 

[Extollager]

Nothing to apologize for!

 

[BAYLOR]

Nothing to apologize for!

I also admit to being a biased with regard to Howard. I liked his stories when I first read them and I still do . I could visualize Conan, the settings , everything . The man knew how tell an exciting story and know how put the reader into the story. Is it a great literature ? No, it s not , I have no illusions about that. But, he was fun to read and, I would not be the reader I am now , had I never discovered him.

 

[JimC]

"Del Rey books is the best way to read Conan"

What's the consensus on the Gnome Press editions?

 

[KGeo777]

I nominate Tower of the Elephant as transcending the pulp genre because it's not just a story about an adventurous youth seeking treasure--the relationship between him and the captive creature is interesting and unusual. Here's a monster who is not the bad guy, he is a victim.
I am sure Lovecraft was fascinated by it because in that story it has the Lovecraftian element of opening the door to another reality with dangerous entities but because of Conan, it's not like a standard Lovecraft story where the protagonist is absorbed or defeated. Things are put back in order. I always like a story where there's some recognition of an elemental power in Nature that is not divine yet sublime. Like Moby Dick, the whale is regarded as something immortal or otherworldly. An alien peer of existence.
Howard's writing was more optimistic than Lovecraft's.
Another one I think stands out is THE SHADOW OF THE VULTURE although that's not fantasy, it feels like something unusual-not just because of the woman warrior (who reminds me of Athena in the Odyssey) but also the drunken hero and the unseen sister. It makes me think of a Poe work or the Maltese Falcon where there's a character who is referenced a few times but we never see him (the Russian who had the statue first).

 

[BAYLOR]

"Del Rey books is the best way to read Conan"

What's the consensus on the Gnome Press editions?

I nominate Tower of the Elephant as transcending the pulp genre because it's not just a story about an adventurous youth seeking treasure--the relationship between him and the captive creature is interesting and unusual. Here's a monster who is not the bad guy, he is a victim.
I am sure Lovecraft was fascinated by it because in that story it has the Lovecraftian element of opening the door to another reality with dangerous entities but because of Conan, it's not like a standard Lovecraft story where the protagonist is absorbed or defeated. Things are put back in order. I always like a story where there's some recognition of an elemental power in Nature that is not divine yet sublime. Like Moby Dick, the whale is regarded as something immortal or otherworldly. An alien peer of existence.
Howard's writing was more optimistic than Lovecraft's.
Another one I think stands out is THE SHADOW OF THE VULTURE although that's not fantasy, it feels like something unusual-not just because of the woman warrior (who reminds me of Athena in the Odyssey) but also the drunken hero and the unseen sister. It makes me think of a Poe work or the Maltese Falcon where there's a character who is referenced a few times but we never see him (the Russian who had the statue first).

My favorite single Howard story is Kings of the Night. Why ? Because in the story you have Bran Mak Moren, King Kull and Cormac. Three of Howard heroes in one story . And what a story it is!

 

[hitmouse]

I nominate Tower of the Elephant as transcending the pulp genre because it's not just a story about an adventurous youth seeking treasure--the relationship between him and the captive creature is interesting and unusual. Here's a monster who is not the bad guy, he is a victim.
I am sure Lovecraft was fascinated by it because in that story it has the Lovecraftian element of opening the door to another reality with dangerous entities but because of Conan, it's not like a standard Lovecraft story where the protagonist is absorbed or defeated. Things are put back in order. I always like a story where there's some recognition of an elemental power in Nature that is not divine yet sublime. Like Moby Dick, the whale is regarded as something immortal or otherworldly. An alien peer of existence.
Howard's writing was more optimistic than Lovecraft's.
Another one I think stands out is THE SHADOW OF THE VULTURE although that's not fantasy, it feels like something unusual-not just because of the woman warrior (who reminds me of Athena in the Odyssey) but also the drunken hero and the unseen sister. It makes me think of a Poe work or the Maltese Falcon where there's a character who is referenced a few times but we never see him (the Russian who had the statue first).

Is pulp a genre? It refers to a very loose “type” of story that was published in “pulp” magazines back in the day, which were of a variety of genres: sf, horror, western, romance, detective, etc.

Although many of the stories were low- rent and formulaic, the quality varied tremendously, and within that enormous volume of work there was some fine fiction and some true classics.

 

[KGeo777]

Is pulp a genre? It refers to a very loose “type” of story that was published in “pulp” magazines back in the day, which were of a variety of genres: sf, horror, western, romance, detective, etc.

Although many of the stories were low- rent and formulaic, the quality varied tremendously, and within that enormous volume of work there was some fine fiction and some true classics.

I meant genre as in a category, a type, a group--since that was what asked but it's a valid point--why should pulp be considered lesser because it was cheaper? This is the same bias with movies--there are many Hollywood movies that cost a huge amount to make and they are all but forgotten and/or were ignored when they came out.
And there are cheaper movies that have better reputations. The assumption is that where you find money put into something, you find quality and respectability which is most definitely not supported by all evidence.

 

[BAYLOR]

I meant genre as in a category, a type, a group--since that was what asked but it's a valid point--why should pulp be considered lesser because it was cheaper? This is the same bias with movies--there are many Hollywood movies that cost a huge amount to make and they are all but forgotten and/or were ignored when they came out.
And there are cheaper movies that have better reputations. The assumption is that where you find money put into something, you find quality and respectability which is most definitely not supported by all evidence.

Id love to a studio in Hollywood do an adaptation of Norvell Page's novel Robot Titans of Gotham. its the first of his Spider Crime fighter novels. This one has hit franchise written all over it.

As the book itself, it's a terrific read .

 

[BAYLOR]

Robert Howard is the author who got me to write in the first place. And he's the reason why I specifically write SFF. After reading all of Conan, Dark Agnès and Solomon Kane, I sat down to write. And writing I am still.

Mention my Name in Atlantis by John Jakes is a spoof fantasy send up of Conan and the sword and sorcery genre

Jakes created a character call Brak the Barbarian , Basically a Conan knock off.

Anther ive heard but never read , Gardner Fox did series stories around the character of Kothar the Swaordsman . he also contributor to Creepy Magazine( WarrenPublications) He dod story Shadow and Soul

Of further interest Anderw Offutt He wrote a Conan Pastise or two but also did a pastiche series using with another of Robert E Howards character, Cormac Art .

 

[Vince W]

Mention my Name in Atlantis by John Jakes is a spoof fantasy send up of Conan and the sword and soccer genre

I think I prefer this genre now.

 

[BAYLOR]

I think I prefer this genre now.

I really hate the spell checker corrector.

 

[BAYLOR]

Henry Kuttner's a series of stories about a about warrior named Elak who lived in Atlantis . Definitely entertaining stuff. And his Wife Cynthia L Moore created the wonder Medieval French Swordsman Jirel of Jory . She only wrote a handful of these wonderful tales. They are are terrific stories , I wish she'd written more of them then she did.and I wish she done Jirel novel or two.

 

[Bick]

I think I prefer this genre now.

I gotta read me some sword and soccer - perhaps the best sounding genre of all time!

 

[hitmouse]

I gotta read me some sword and soccer - perhaps the best sounding genre of all time!

Funnily enough I think Pratchett may claim to have written the first novel in this genre with Unseen Academicals.

 

[BAYLOR]

I gotta read me some sword and soccer - perhaps the best sounding genre of all time!

They do have Fantasy Baseball .