Lacking a cheerio

[Peter Graham]

(...the will-o-wyke nodded sagely and gave a quick squint over his nebulous shoulder, just to check that no more travellers had strayed onto the fen whilst he had been talking to the goblin..."I do take your point, but I think you have to be careful of conflating hits with sales. For every hundred people who read your stuff, perhaps ten will like it. Of that ten, you'd be lucky to get even one to actually part with hard cash for it. Go to a site like autonomy...people gush over one another like waterfalls in spate...but I'd wager very few would hand over a few shekels to actually buy their alleged fave books....in any event, marketing requires a whole different skill set to writing and very many of us...and I don't exclude myself from this... probably don't have the ability to do either properly. Getting your book up there might seem better than not getting it up there at all, but unless you are a great salesgoblin as well as an exceptional writer, you have to resign yourself to the likelihood that writing will only ever be a hobby rather than a career. If, by contrast, you want to earn money from writing...and assuming you have bills to pay and don't have the luxury of being able to say "I don't care about money" as though being commercially minded somehow grubbied your creativity...you have to ensure that you have proper distribution and proper budgets, at least until you are so famous that simply vomiting on a piece of A4 wil get you longlisted for the Man Booker...the best way to do this is to convince a publisher to put their savvy, know-how and budget firmly behind your magnum opus.....")

 

[Mith]

I think I'm the opposite really. If no one knows I am writing I can write happily and frequently. However if people (mainly family) keep pestering me to show off my work then I find myself losing interest in whatever idea I've had.

This applies only to real life, online I don't mind if people ask me about what I'm writing strangely enough!

 

[fleamailman]

(the goblin liked the will-o-wyke, thinking there was a smart mind if ever there was one, and the goblin agreed in his way too, that that bookreading was doomed along with most of its authors, where certainly fewer and fewer authors would make less and less money from it, no, not outright death but an onward marginalisation, but that was all the more reason why this forumland interested the goblin now, saying "...forumland lacks content and yet as a readership it is growing daily, where perhaps too, an online persona with talent might find a sponsor now, but more likely it would just become the domain of the livewriters here, those who wrote for their own reasons, and who gained a readership by way of their posts, as opposed to blog entries, why, because a blog talks down to its readers whereas a thread is just what this is, a correspondence on an even keel between us...", "...you're hijacking the thread goblin, moddy will stamp on you for sure now..." went the chorus in the background, "...um, so the PO wants me to be a pom pom girl here, perhaps the will-o-wyke will lend me his pom poms then..." suggested the goblin now appropriately changed into cheerleaders outfit , saying "... now we mustn't let the side down, yes anything to further encourage literature on forumland, go go Fate_catcher..." as the scene faded hopefully)

 

[The Judge]

"...you're hijacking the thread goblin, moddy will stamp on you for sure now..." went the chorus in the background

Sharpening her talons on the whetstone, The Mod contemplated life and writing and whether she should in fact eviscerate certain goblins and peters who were disrupting her tea-break, or whether simple decapitation might be best before she returned to her ginger thins. Fortunately for the Goblin, at that moment the toasted tea cakes were ready.


fate catcher, we can certainly offer help and suggestions and the like, either separately from or in conjunction with Critiques (the latter when you have the requisite post count, of course). If you are desperately missing the need to write so that people can read, then perhaps a blog or something is the way to go. Not quite as interactive, perhaps, but if you're a regular participant in forums like this then gradually you'll become known and people will read. (Which is, I think, what fleamailman may have been saying. The trouble with goblins and their flowery language and strange asides, she thought to herself, is that is they talk a lot and don't always get to the point or make themselves clear...)

 

[AnyaKimlin]

Anya ponders ... that is amazing how many words of wisdom she has found in the goblinese dotted about the web. Which for Fate-Catcher is maybe an idea -- Goblin has himself quite and audience and never goes unnoticed on a forum unless he gets banned before being given a chance.

 

[fleamailman]

(the goblin had been recommended to join this forum from way back now, saying "...yes, I have known about this place from before, and of course I hesitated till now if only because I didn't know how to compromise my writing style, where I normally add a picture to each post, with the needs of this forum that I imagined to be more focused upon writing or bookwriting...", in fact, the chequered board of memories resulting till this point had been like a taste of salt to the goblin who had become more awake by it, saying "...so suddenly I decided to put my finished works, which have their pictures, in one thread as something ongoing still, and post freely between brackets everywhere else as if to show that it was just me chatting here...", simply, it was a compromise offered to the goblin at another writer's forum that had worked out well it seems)

 

[fate_catcher]

I've found a way to get through, and have finished two projects. Thanks to everyone who stopped by to talk.

I might post something for critique...once I've reached the post count! But on the other hand, maybe it's best to learn to keep things to myself.

 

[Peter Graham]

May it please yeronner

Sharpening her talons on the whetstone, The Mod contemplated life and writing and whether she should in fact eviscerate certain goblins and peters who were disrupting her tea-break,

Mrs Graham would undoubtedly vote in favour of Peter-evisceration, but asks that you hold off until such time as said Peter has purchased Mrs G's essentials for the weekend (80 Senior Service and a bottle of Plymouth gin).

I think FMM raises some interesting points, although I accept that we should perhaps be discussing them in one of the "Self Publish or Be Damned?" threads. Nonetheless, the cheerleader point does filter in to such discussions and perhaps underlines one of the points I made to FMM - support and even positivity in an online forum such as this does not necessarily translate into sales.

Best regards,

Peter

 

[The Judge]

Ah, how could I deprive the saintly Mrs G of the necessities of life? I shall therefore postpone evisceration until she has had the chance of training up a younger man to undertake the fundamental duties of Peterhood.

And yes, I think the idea of forumland as an adjunct to or substitute for publishing is an interesting one -- perhaps in a new thread, though.


fate catcher -- great news! I don't think you need to learn to isolate yourself, just don't think you have to depend on others' input and rapt attention. There's a middle way. I'm all for moderation. (cough cough )

 

[Peter Graham]

until she has had the chance of training up a younger man to undertake the fundamental duties of Peterhood.

Great Scott - it never occurred to me that such a thing might be in her mind. I'd better sack the strapping young undergardener with the rippling six pack and the aversion to wearing clothes on his upper half the second I get home.

fate catcher -- great news! I don't think you need to learn to isolate yourself, just don't think you have to depend on others' input and rapt attention.

I'd agree. If it's unrealistic for an aspiring writer to expect others to share their love of their creation, it's equally unrealistic to expect all aspiring writers to live in a state of monastic isolation until the magnum opus is finished. The trick is to be able to know where to go for which bit of support or advice. You might know someone who's keen on history and can help your with historical accuracy. Someone else might be excellent at grammar and might be happy to proofread for as long as you can keep the claret flowing. Someone else might be particularly funny and the best person to ask if the gags are working. General brow-mopping duties and railing against the obvious incompetence of anyone who rejects the work will usually be the preserve of loved ones.

For me, writing is a hobby, in that it is something I do outside the day job. I therefore think it is perfectly acceptable to discuss my hobby with friends and family, provided I don't fall into the trap of thinking that my hobby is more important or more worthy of conversational time than theirs (fighting with oneself in the street, in the case of Dave Ten Pints).

Regards,

Peter

 

[fleamailman]

("...so there you have it folks, ample proof that pom poming for someone really does increase their ability to finish their projects now..." went the goblin who wrote because it both exacted his thoughts and enhanced his visions, saying "...to be honest with you, I feel too much thought is going into the "form the page to the marketplace" stage, where my being anonymous just forces me to focus solely upon the "from the mind to the page" stage here, though yes, like fate_catcher, I like a certain sense of audience and feeling of deadline that this correspondence in threads offers me, yet it, like my caffeine and my music and my open slot too, are just props to me, no the real point of my writing is that adventure within where the reader only ever gets to see some fossilized footprints of a creature I experienced by my pen...")

 

[chrispenycate]

I've been steering clear of posting on this thread under the premise that, while I tend to read intensively and in detail, my comments are hardly the effusive praise required to offset a lack of self confidence;on the contrary, it would seem they are more likely to send a fragile soul running off screaming to take up basket weaving or crochet. But this is not deliberate sadism; I really believe I've helped some people improve their writing, and maybe even armoured their spirits a little against the far worse battering of agents and editors, should the project ever achieve its fruition.

Which it won't do if you don't write it.