Dressing the Italian way

[The Judge]

I've been thinking about this off and on for the last few weeks. The reactions to some exotic words in my piece in Critiques made me wonder again.

Basically, my WiP is set in an Italianesque city in the equivalent of around 1485. My main character is a woman and at some point I have to write about her clothes since she has to take them off. (Calm down, Mouse. It's not that type of book. )

To maintain the Italianate feel I'm trying to use Italian (or at least Italian-seeming) words for which there is no simple equivalent in English. But when it comes to her clothes I'm conflicted.

Her undergarment is the shift, in Italian a camicia or camiscia (spellings vary). The English has the advantage that pretty much everyone will know vaguely what it means, even if it's rather unglamorous compared to the Italian. I thought of using the French chemise, which is its equvalent, but that looked totally wrong.

Her dress in Italian would be a gamurra which I've also seen spelled as camora -- it has a direct English translation of kirtle, which is sending me into a real spin every time I use it since it's so heavily Northern in my eyes.

Lastly, she's wearing an outer gown for which there's no English translation because it was fashionable only for a short time in Florence, the giornea. I could call it an overgown, or long tunic, but I'm not keen on either (not least because I used overgown in my SF WiPs and it looks like a complete failure of imagination to use it again).

At the moment I'm using shift, kirtle and giornea, which looks plain odd, but if I went to camiscia, gamurra/camora and giornea it worries me no one will understand -- and using camiscia and camora is likely to get confusing as is gamurra and giornea.

Anyone any thoughts? Has anyone else had this or a similar problem?



I wanted to put a picture here as it's so lovely, but I'm having trouble with it, so here's a link instead http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/ca/Giovanna_Tornabuoni_full_length.jpg

 

[Mouse]

I don't know where this reputation comes from!

Why not say lacy shift? Sounds sexier than shift. Unless it's not lacy.

I read giornea as gonorrhoea every time.

The lady in the picture just looks like she's wearing some sort of really heavy dress to me. I suck at description so I can't help at all, sorry. Thought it'd be useful to point out the giornea/gonorrhoea thing though.

 

[Hex]

oooh that is lovely.

I have no clever thoughts, but I agree that 'kirtle' sounds very northern and puts me in mind of spurtles.

 

[The Judge]

When we have finally plucked Mouse's mind from the gutter...

The white at her elbow is her shift, Mouse, so not lacy, just plain, if very fine, linen. The diamond patterned fabric is the kirtle, and the gi-or-nea (note how it is pronounced...) is the outer garment with the large eagle/sun-like thing pattern.

I have learned a new word, thanks, Hex!

I've had a down on kirtle ever since English A level when I rubbished an Elizabethan poem for using a weak rhyme "A cap of flowers and a kirtle//Imbroider'd all with leaves of myrtle." I afterwards found out it was written by one W. Shakespeare...

 

[Ursa major]

If that outer garment was fashionable for only a short time in Firenze, could it not be as brief a phenomenon in your world. In which case, your narrator could call it by the name you want, but be a bit more descriptive, such as:

...the newly fashionable giornea, a long over-gown worn over one's kirtle.

You, being knowledgeable about these items of clothing where I am not, could be rather more accurate in your description.

 

[AnyaKimlin]

You could just use it and include a description or a glossary. Someone new to historical fiction reading would probably have to look up kirtle, farthingale, copintank etc They are no longer familiar words.

Took me ages at 10 to get the hang of Her Royal Destiny (Katharine Parr) and all her clothes. Even with a history degree working out the clothing terms in my favourite book Mist Over Pendle (The Pendle Witches) took me awhile. The descriptions in both books helped a bit as the dictionary was useless.

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

I have no problem with camicia, because it does suggest undergarment to me. But in any case, it seems to me that a lot of this could be picked up from the context and the description even if you use unfamiliar words. To me, using the right words gives something of the flavor of the time.


If a character is dressing or undressing, you can say a few words about the garments in passing, so that by the time she is undressed down to her plain linen camicia, or sweeping out of the room fully attired in her fashionable giornea, readers should be well able to distinguish which goes over which and the general appearance of each.

 

[Culhwch]

I read giornea as gonorrhoea every time.

I have to agree with the Mouse, here. That was my first thought.

I don't have much to add except that I've heard shifts referred to as camisoles, which may or may not be useful. Kirtle really, really looks out of place, though, and I have no Northern associations, so make of that what you will.

 

[Pyan]

I'd agree that kirtle sounds wrong in the Italian context.

For me, the word's always associated with The Lady of the Green Kirtle, aka the Queen of Underland or Queen of the Deep Realm, from The Silver Chair, part of the Narnia series by CS Lewis, set in a very Northern kind of mythos.
There's a theory that she's a reincarnation of the White Witch/Jadis, as well, which puts her a long way from 15th century Italy,

 

[The Judge]

Thanks, all. That's reinforced my views about kirtle. I shall save that for when I venture into the cold lands. Now all I have to do is try to avoid people thinking Chais is wearing some kind of disease.

 

[Abernovo]

Camicia works fine for me. I've seen it called a camisa, but that's Spanish. Camora also seems fine. I'm sure that you can explain that it's a dress - her camora was laid out for her; she wondered if it was a suitable dress for the occasion. That sort of thing.

As to the overgown, just an idea, but have you thought of the Latin tunica. Pretty obvious that it's a tunic, but you could describe it how you wanted once you had given it a name. I thought it might be in line with the Italian feel.

 

[HareBrain]

As to the overgown, just an idea, but have you thought of the Latin tunica. [...] I thought it might be in line with the Italian feel.

And with a flash of inspiration, the problem is solved. Shifta, kirtla, overgowna ... easily understandable, and Italian-sounding.

 

[Hex]

I was thinking -- there's nothing wrong with using the 'proper' terms (although I do like 'shift') but the trick will probably be introducing them without introducing three new terms all at the same time. That's tough if she's getting dressed, because presumably they all go on vaguely close together.

I liked Ursa'a suggestion -- that would work for me.

 

[Pyan]

Thanks, all. That's reinforced my views about kirtle. I shall save that for when I venture into the cold lands. Now all I have to do is try to avoid people thinking Chais is wearing some kind of disease.

No associations that I can think of with with gamurra and camicia - you can actually buy modern patterns to make your own, as well...

http://www.florentine-persona.com/pink_gamurra.html

 

[Abernovo]

Not quite what I meant. More the fact that it's Latin, so it might be something passed down to an Italian-like language. Camicia comes directly from the Latin camisia, for shirt.

 

[HareBrain]

Not quite what I meant.

I know, sorry, I was being silly.

 

[Abernovo]

Actually, not your fault HareBrain. I have a bit of a problem understanding humour. I get simple jokes, but beyond that... My apologies.

 

[Boneman]

Being a world of fantasy you could follow William Golding and invent new words that are recognisable from the derivation of the originals:

Camise or Camisa for the chemise. (As long as she disrobes and in telling us what she's taking off, you name it thusly, we'll understand)

Kirtle sounds like girdle, so why not Girtle? Too close to Myrtle? Then maybe Kirstle? Kirstla?

Giornea - (wouldn't have though of the disease connection, but it's so obvious now others have mentioned it) I read it with a soft 'g' but that sound like morning in Italian, which is no bad thing, so how about Giorna? Jiorna?

 

[Glen]

Sorry, did you say she was taking her clothes off?

 

[Boneman]

Basically, my WiP is set in an Italianesque city in the equivalent of around 1485. My main character is a woman and at some point I have to write about her clothes since she has to take them off. (Calm down, Mouse. It's not that type of book. )

In the best possible taste, Glen!