Different point of view

Since thread is Different point of view, allow me to propose different theory.

Two events that coincided are the birth of dragons and reawakening of magic. And characters in the book just jumped to conclusion (what humans often do) that those two are related.

But what if they are not? What if rise of magic power is connected with the comet that passes Westeros, or rising of The Others. And eggs may be only hibernating until enough heat is produced to allow young dragons to hatch, and Dany was only first person that thought of that.

Connection between the two would be documented in the world that depended on magic. But, until the event, nobody seemed to make the connection, only after the birth of dragons everybody saw the connection. I would expect that it would be common knowledge, at leas maesters should know this.

And so I turn to the gods, since they are relevant power in Essos and Westeros, what if all those events are actually connected with the beginning of the chess match between Great Other and R'hllor?
 
I think the idea that the eggs were only hibernating is most likely the truth. And it probably wasn't just heat that was needed to awaken them though, but a death, or more accurately, a blood sacrifice. This is very much in R'hllor's territory, which makes me think you might be onto something with the idea that the magic comes from the gods, and as they become more active, so does magic.

I read somewhere a suggestion that Dany is AA and the dragons are actually Lightbringer. I think this is possible, but even if not, maybe the dragons are a tool of R'hllor (or his 'Children')? The Targs came from Essos thousands of years earlier, and the worship of R'hllor is based primarily in the east. Maybe in ancient Valyria, the last time dragons lived, everyone worshipped R'hllor and the dragons were his gift to his followers? Knowing war with his ancient enemy was coming in present time, R'hllor might have 'arranged' for some dragons to be reborn to aid him.

Anyway, just throwing some ideas out there, cos it's fun to speculate, even if we have no proof. :)
 
Needle pointed out earlier in this thread that there is possible connection between Old Gods and the Others. If we expand on this one can easily see connection between pantheon in GRRM's books. God I find most interesting is the Stranger. One of the faces of the Seven faced god of Vesteros, and also one that appeared in old Valiryia, as patron of the Faceless men.

Dragons are most powerful weapons in Essos and Westeros, but weapons with their own mind. One might think of them as "Lightbringers" , and Dany is most probably AA, she fits all the characteristics from the prophecy. And I believe that world is going toward great conflict between Great Other and R'hllor, but we must beware of the Stranger, Old Gods, Drowned god and all the others, which might surprise, and use the conflict in their favor, like Game of Thrones among gods.
 
Whether or not this will relate to aSoIaF or not remains to be seen but a theory i rather like from other fantasy I have read is that the power of the Gods come from the strength of their believers. In essence, Gods never die but they do gain or loss power based on the number of and the depth of belief of their followers. If this true then it certainly shaping up to be a battle between Rhallor (much as i dislike that guy!) and the Great Other. Rhallor was once just some weirdo religion of the east and the others relegated to mere myth. Now Rhallor has followers spreading all across Westeros and the Others are being seen by (and one must believe in what you see with your own eyes,as long as tequila is not involved!) more and more people all the time. Plus if my idea about the Old Gods and the Others is correct they may be the more powerful because the Old Gods have always held power in the North.
 
Wouldn't do this for anybody but Needle. If you got few hours read this post:

My two favored fantasy authors are JRR Tolkien, and George RR Martin. One difference relevant for this post is in this: JRR Tolkien completed his work and then published it, thus having complete control over his work. Only opinion he take in consideration is from people HE contacted. And also rounding it up before finish in the sense that he imagined all "questions" and "answers", so his work is "closed". GRRM published his work in "progress", meaning that I believe GRRM actually didn't have precise idea where his work will take him after A Game of Thrones. He just had general draft for the series, and ideas came up as he writhed. Plus in this era media are much more powerful than in time Tolkien writhed. And to go back to gods and what all this have to do with them. In the begging GRRM just wanted to have some basic pantheons, resembling those we have here to better grasp readers attention by something he can relate to. So - Seven faced god is similar to Holy Trinity, Old Gods to shamanism, Great Other, R'hllor, Drowned god... are similar to polytheistic pantheons in the way that they behave more like squabbling superpowered humans, using ordinary people as their pawns etc,etc... What you are referring to is best described in Pratchett's Discworld series. But do not believe Martin got inspiration from there (but then again...). What is more likely is that GRRM didn't intend to have religion play this important role from the beginning, but it is very convenient to explain everything supernatural - like the birth of dragons. So as his writing developed so did religion, growing from barely existent in AGoT to one of main driving forces in ADwD. And since it grown parallel he intertwined dragons, prophecies, priests, gods, history in the best way he could. That is actually why all ideas posted here have same amount of chance of happening (maybe some more than others, but not nearly as more as some may think). I also think that idea of gods gaining followers doing times of trouble is the way GRRM is going. Only that it is other way around - in good times people didn't need gods, so believers were few - while in bad times people need something to hold onto - RELIGION. It may very well be that The Others are actually constructs of gods, sent on people so that they convert to their religion, and my prime suspect is R'hllor, while other gods cheer him, as their flock grows together with their power (if your theory is correct).

THERE, sad everything I intended as clearly as possible. And if you don't reply that you read it gonna shot myself on the spot :)
 
There will be no shooting here today! Fixing people is what I do but I have not yet mastered bullet extraction via the www! ;)

I really hope GRRM is paying us no attention what so ever! He is writing his story, not us! He has said that when aGoT was released that he knew how the story began and pretty much how it ended, just not how it got there. I believe this is true.

What you said about religion in general is true. People are at their most devout when times are hard, and tend toward forgetfulness when they are good.
 
It may very well be that The Others are actually constructs of gods, sent on people so that they convert to their religion, and my prime suspect is R'hllor, while other gods cheer him, as their flock grows together with their power (if your theory is correct).
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This reminded me of Terry Pratchett's The Last Hero with the various scenes of the gods hanging out chatting about what they have done to their followers. I'm paraphrasing here, but there was one scene where that crocodile-headed god asks one of the other gods, "You made them give up garlic and chocolate? Are you crazy?" Genius.

Westeros could use a visit by Cohen the Barbarian.
 
Needle said:
There will be no shooting here today! Fixing people is what I do but I have not yet mastered bullet extraction via the www! ;)

I really hope GRRM is paying us no attention what so ever! He is writing his story, not us! He has said that when aGoT was released that he knew how the story began and pretty much how it ended, just not how it got there. I believe this is true.

What you said about religion in general is true. People are at their most devout when times are hard, and tend toward forgetfulness when they are good.
Click to expand...

Don't worry Needle, no bullet extraction needed. Just that I wrote that answer in 2 pm, and my head was like an bucket.;)

Would like to believe GRRM myself, but he simply can not be under the glass dome so that he is totally uninfluenced. If he said something like "Yes, I know about theories, and I'm aware that there must be some influence in my writing, but I will do my best to minimize it", then OK. But to tell that he ignores theories and that he is not influenced by them does not sound true, he must be aware that just by knowing about them changes his work. And as soon as someone starts playing innocent, my spider sense starts tinkling. Beware of Romans even when they bring presents.

Yeah, just like here on earth, difference is that gods in Westeros are more like Greek pantheon self centered and always ready for fight gods, than Monotheistic all forgiving one. So get readyyy tooooo ruuuumble ....:D
 
NenadBulaja said:
Don't worry Needle, no bullet extraction needed. Just that I wrote that answer in 2 pm, and my head was like an bucket.;)

Would like to believe GRRM myself, but he simply can not be under the glass dome so that he is totally uninfluenced. If he said something like "Yes, I know about theories, and I'm aware that there must be some influence in my writing, but I will do my best to minimize it", then OK. But to tell that he ignores theories and that he is not influenced by them does not sound true, he must be aware that just by knowing about them changes his work. And as soon as someone starts playing innocent, my spider sense starts tinkling. Beware of Romans even when they bring presents.

Yeah, just like here on earth, difference is that gods in Westeros are more like Greek pantheon self centered and always ready for fight gods, than Monotheistic all forgiving one. So get readyyy tooooo ruuuumble ....:D
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He has in fact said that he knows the various fan theories, becuase even though he doesn't read forum boards he gets emails and has people come up to him and ask/tell him things at conventions. He has also been asked about various theoies in the countless interiviews he's done. What he HAS explicitly said is that he knows which way the story is going and doesn't let the various theories influence what he has already decided.
 
And I say that he can not. Wishful thinking aside, ASoIaF is work in progress. It was announced to be done in three books, then five books, it is now SEVEN books (if he doesn't change his mind, AGAIN) . He announced finish of ADwD FOUR times before it was actually finished. There has been many inconstancy in his statements.

He is not just writing along guidelines he already finished. He changes and grows the story while writing, and in few years, he will not manage to make the difference between what he heard as someones theory, and what he believes was his idea.

At the end, he would not be this great of author if he would stubbornly cling to something that no longer fits in the story, only because that was what he originally believed to be best way to solve the story.
 
Everyone has been saying the test is to give up Arya and become No One. Maybe she fails if she does
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This sentence has been bugging me ever since Imp wrote it. It sounds just so much like GRRM that had me rethink my entire construction around Arya. After reading thread about Varys, had a brainstorm, and here how it goes.

Presumption No.1: Varys is somehov connected with FM (don't believe he is one but there is definitely some connection between the two).

Fact: FM are aware that who is Arya.

Presumption No.2: FM told Varys that Arya Stark appeared at their door and asked to be trained in their art.

Conclusion: Varys the Spider decided to include Arya in his web. He informed the FM to continue her training, with one major difference - to allow her to remain what she is! Kindly Man is actually doing exactly what The Imp hinted - he is testing her to see if she can complete the training and remain true to herself!

Unknown: For what purpose, if Varys is indeed such webmaster, he can gain in many ways from Arya returning as trained assassin, just that I can not see them.
 
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