Improving our 300 Word Stories -- READ FIRST POST!

[The Judge]

A few things alchemist missed:

North Scotland -- since it isn't an actual region (eg like West Yorkshire was) "the north of Scotland", I think

they had disdain of anyone -- disdain for not of, or "they disdained anyone"

in front of them. 'Were the showies -- I'd suggest new para for the dialogue

used to be love -- comma before "love"

and continued to dash on -- not sure why, but this isn't quite right. The "continued" is odd -- I know you can have "continued on his way" but "continued running" wouldn't work because he's halted, so it's not continuing but starting again, perhaps. Is "dash on" a Scottish phrase? If not, that's odd (ie wrong grammatically), too.

'He's bold running in this weather.' -- comma after "bold"

'Aye love. -- comma after "Aye"


EDIT: I'd agree with you, I wouldn't have done anything more than a comma before the Tesco's clause, either.

 

[Culhwch]

I was kind of remiss and forgot I'd posted in here.... thanks to all who commented! Glad to hear such positive responses!

What was it about?

You nailed it, actually! I don't think I could have summarised any better.

I think the only part which didn't quite work for me was I'm not sure if we're meant to think he had loved her, or it was simply her beauty which could steal his breath. If the former, it doesn't fit with his character as you're showing it; I think it would need more integration into the story. If the latter then the "held my resolve" comes from nowhere. That line, too, I thought a little out of place -- if he was the type to waver, he'd have done so long before this, not at the final second.

As a plot, she's left it a bit late to stop him from launching the rocket if that was her intention, but in the context of 300 words I think we can forgive that!!

Both very valid points. Three hundred words always seems like so much... until you hit two fifty. But this is something to think about if I do expand upon it.

 

[AnyaKimlin]

Thanks TJ - again I can actually explain why you have suggested what you have. It is possible I am improving. I'll try a week focused on commas and see what happens. (Then move on to any other issues).

This is the only one I am unsure as to why ?
He's bold running in this weather. - why does the comma go after bold ?

Dash on - is my Gran's phrase so possibly Scouse or maybe unique to her. It was unusual for her to be grammatically incorrect.

 

[The Judge]

This is the only one I am unsure as to why ?
He's bold running in this weather. - why does the comma go after bold ?

I don't know the technicalities of sub-clauses and the like -- but there are two sections which need to be separated. As importantly, read it out loud. You pause there, don't you? "He's bold, running" not "He's bold running". Where there's a pause, there's a comma.

Dash on - is my Gran's phrase so possibly Scouse or maybe unique to her. It was unusual for her to be grammatically incorrect.

Use it for dialogue or close POV, then, if that's how your character would talk, but otherwise it's just "dash" in lines like that.

 

[AnyaKimlin]

thanks - hmm need to think about it, part of my problem is I am tone deaf and don't always hear pauses.
Might try getting someone else to read it to me and see if that works.

 

[alchemist]

Thanks for that Alchemist. Actually I understand most of them.

This one I don't: 'Near the big gates, turn left and a few doors up, full stop or semi colonyou'll find a Tesco's

Why would it be a full stop or semi colon ? Sorry for being a pest, but I don't understand why that would be a full stop instead of a comma ? ''You'll find a Tesco's'' doesn't feel substantial enough to stand on its own ?

Sorry, rush of blood there. I imagined a long pause with Wilf pointing or winking. A comma would be fine.

 

[Vertigo]

I'll be brave and suggest...

I would have thought that one should be a semicolon. I think it needs something because it is two phrases; "He is bold" and "running in this weather". I took out the contraction to emphasise the verb. Otherwise "He is bold" becomes the subject of "running".

Maybe?

 

[AnyaKimlin]

Hmm thanks Alchemist and TJ - you've helped me feel more hopeful lol Believe it or not my punctuation is a ton better than two years ago when I started.

@Alc lol I love that you are imagining him doing anything.

@Vertigo - you are asking the wrong person lol I saw it as he was bold for running in the weather. Hmm how about He's bold for running like that in this weather ? Now would the comma come before the conjunction ? Ahh but to make it more dialogue friendly the for would come out and be replaced by a comma as a missing word. Now I get it.

 

[HareBrain]

I'll be brave and suggest...

I would have thought that one should be a semicolon. I think it needs something because it is two phrases; "He is bold" and "running in this weather". I took out the contraction to emphasise the verb. Otherwise "He is bold" becomes the subject of "running".

Maybe?

No . A semi-colon would be far too long a pause there for how most people would speak that line (and if the speaker does leave a very long pause there for some reason, I'd suggest a dash). The main thing you should think about with commas, most of the time, is whether you would pause there when you read it aloud. It might be worth reading it aloud and forcing yourself to make every space between words exactly the same, like a music beat. This will sound weird, because in reality we use an almost infinite variety of pause lengths, but if it sounds very wrong, try putting a comma there and reading it back with a longer pause.

Often, though, it's just a matter of taste. Aloud, the running example sounds just as good with or without a comma after "bold", but looks and reads better with one, IMO.

 

[The Judge]

I agree, a semi-colon would be too heavy, plus the second clause is wholly dependent on the first so they can't be separated too much unless it's a quirk of the character's speech pattern eg "He's bold. Running like that. In this weather." (I'm making this up as I go along, you do realise that... )

Anya, the whole phrase should be "He's bold to be running in this weather" which could get away with no punctuation at all (though I'd probably still comma). Missing out the "to be" causes a slight hiatus in the saying of it, which is where the comma goes. Plus the stress on "He's" dictates how the sentence sounds.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

Anya, the whole phrase should be "He's bold to be running in this weather" which could get away with no punctuation at all (though I'd probably still comma). Missing out the "to be" causes a slight hiatus in the saying of it, which is where the comma goes. Plus the stress on "He's" dictates how the sentence sounds.

I disagree. We use the same colloquialism over here, in pretty much the same accent, and the "to be" wouldn't be in there.

"He's bold, running in this weather" feels right to me, just enough of a pause (the dialect is spoken very quickly, much quicker than most UK accents), so the comma seems to give me just enough of a pause. A semi colon seems too long.

But, I suppose it comes down to how much of the venacular of the language you want to portray, and how much you want the reader to follow, because half the UK can't understand people with these hard accents - too quick, too broad. (painful experience with call centres has evidenced this to me over many, many years. )

 

[HareBrain]

I disagree. We use the same colloquialism over here, in pretty much the same accent, and the "to be" wouldn't be in there.

Yes, but that wasn't (I presume to suggest) TJ's point. "He's bold, running in this weather" is grammatically not a meaningful sentence. Of course people use it in speech and are perfectly well understood, even down here in posho-land, but it's a colloquial derivation from the construction "He's bold to be running in this weather", and TJ's argument was that removing those two words creates a small pause where there isn't one in the complete sentence.

Whether that pause actually exists in every accent is another matter.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

Oh, yes, seeing that now. (long night, kids have me up since 4.30) I shall go put coffee on and try to make more sense...

 

[AnyaKimlin]

I thought for could be used as a replacement for because or since ?

He is bold, because he is running in this weather
He is bold, since he is running in this weather
He is bold to be running in this weather
He is bold, for running in this weather
He's bold, running in this weather

All five convey the same meaning ? or is there a reason to be is more grammatically correct than for, because or since (the latter sounds a tad clumsy) ? For just seemed more correct for a couple with Doric base to their language which uses a lot of Middle English.

BTW I am now convinced and understand why the comma goes there. It is because it is indicating a missing word.

 

[HareBrain]

I thought for could be used as a replacement for because or since ?

He is bold, because he is running in this weather
He is bold, since he is running in this weather
He is bold to be running in this weather
He is bold, for running in this weather
He's bold, running in this weather

All five convey the same meaning ?

I'm wary of getting out of my depth here, but "because" doesn't make logical sense. "He is cold because he doesn't have a coat" makes sense, or "I deduce that he is bold, because he is running in this weather", but it doesn't follow that because is is running in this weather, he is actually bold.

Then again, I'm now no longer sure that "He's bold to be running in this weather" makes as much sense as I thought, either. But I am sure there should be a comma after "bold". Probably

What would be logically correct is "It's bold of him to be running in this weather".

For just seemed more correct for a couple with Doric base to their language which uses a lot of Middle English.

Doric? It's Wilf who said it.

 

[AnyaKimlin]

Hmm ok what we do know is words should be in there but it sounds better without them so the comma works lol Sorry for being awkward I'm determined to understand this better by next year.

You should know Wilf says nothing without Doric giving him permission to do so. If I ever do make them into a Sit-com I'm changing them a bit Wilf is a retired neurosurgeon and Doris some kind of physicist.

 

[Vertigo]

That all makes a lot more sense to me now. Very informative.

However it does raise a question in my mind. Sometimes in dialogue (and maybe out of it) I want a pause just before 'and'. Now in that case would it make sense to to put a comma there to tell the reader how should be spoken even though you wouldn't normally put a comma before 'and' (or 'but' for that matter)?

 

[Jo Zebedee]

In my understanding, Vertigo, if there is to be a pause before the and you can use a comma. So eg.

I read what vertigo asked and thought of the answer.

vs

I listened to the question, and then I knew what the answer had to be.

A slight emphasis in the second one. Which kind of gives an extra impetus to the second stanza.

 

[Vertigo]

Excellent, sometimes I want to do just that but wasn't sure I was supposed to!

 

[HareBrain]

However it does raise a question in my mind. Sometimes in dialogue (and maybe out of it) I want a pause just before 'and'. Now in that case would it make sense to to put a comma there to tell the reader how should be spoken even though you wouldn't normally put a comma before 'and' (or 'but' for that matter)?

I often put commas before "and", in dialogue and out of it (and before semi-colons, and dashes), and I've never heard of any "rule" against doing so. (Traditionally, you wouldn't use a comma before the "and" which preceded the last item in a list, but you can do -- in this case it's called the "Oxford comma").

If you look in LOTR, for example, Tolkien puts "but" after commas and semi-colons all the time. But then, he begins sentences with it.

(Edit: that's weird, I could have sworn those two last replies weren't there when I did mine. It hasn't taken me twenty minutes, honest!)