Winds of Winter news -- WARNING: SPOILERS

As far as I remember Ramsey did not earn his name, it was given to him out of necessity. Roose's son died, he had no heir, he knew that Ramsey was his because of the eyes (I think) he needed him. The fact that he turned out to be even more twisted than his sire was just kind of a bonus.

I do think he will at least try to kill Roose sooner or later. Pretty sure some part of him anyway, fears Roose and knows he still needs him, but I think he will try anyway 'cause he doesn't like to taste fear himself. I am not rooting for Roose here (in a perfect world they would fall off the cliff together!) but I think Ramsey also underestimates him and may be in for a deadly surprise when he tries.

Am not sure who of the northmen will stay with Ramsey if he kills pop. Would like to say none but most only stick with Roose because they fear him, so the same may hold true with Ramsey.
 
Ramsay's sole function is to produce an heir of Roose who will inherit Winterfell and thus rule in the North. Given that Roose is not at all bothered that "Arya" isn't a Stark (or a person of any intrinsic significance), I doubt he cared too much about having to elevate Ramsay to being an acknowledged Bolton (because, as Needle has just pointed out, there was no longer a legitimate Bolton heir available). How long Ramsay or "Arya" need to be around once there is such an heir, it's hard to say.


And thanks for posting the link to the preview chapter, Mesanna. I think it ties off (temporarily?) a few minor loose ends, but doesn't resolve anything major (as if anyone thought it would...).

.
 
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You guys all seem to be forgetting that Roose actually knows that Ramsay wants to kill him. Roose knows that Ramsey killed his son, too. All of Ramsey's best friends are all secretly working for Roose. Ramsey is stupid, too. All of this adds up to Roose being perfectly safe from Ramsey.
 
Hi folks. Long time I haven't been here.

So, I thought as I ease into paying visits here again, I would read this preview chapter. Fantastic as usual.

I like the Braavos connection and the mention of Bittersteel. I think this is first time I actually enjoyed Stannis. Certainly not cuddly but I gain greater respect for his mind in this chapter. He knows when to act and who to consult. Whether he listens to Asha, we will see.

It seemed to me that the ravens started saying "tree" on their own.

Something tells me that it will not be Ramsay who will be coming at Stannis through the snow but rather Roose. Then, Stannis is up the creek without a paddle.

Manderley will turn on the Boltons. Let us not forget Davos is somewhere in the North. He will turn up at the right moment.

Interesting as well that Jeyne got frostbite on her nose. What if she lost part of it and became less recognizeable? Even to Jon?
 
TK-421 said:
Hi folks. Long time I haven't been here.

So, I thought as I ease into paying visits here again, I would read this preview chapter. Fantastic as usual.

I like the Braavos connection and the mention of Bittersteel. I think this is first time I actually enjoyed Stannis. Certainly not cuddly but I gain greater respect for his mind in this chapter. He knows when to act and who to consult. Whether he listens to Asha, we will see.

It seemed to me that the ravens started saying "tree" on their own.

Something tells me that it will not be Ramsay who will be coming at Stannis through the snow but rather Roose. Then, Stannis is up the creek without a paddle.

Manderley will turn on the Boltons. Let us not forget Davos is somewhere in the North. He will turn up at the right moment.

Interesting as well that Jeyne got frostbite on her nose. What if she lost part of it and became less recognizeable? Even to Jon?
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GRRM just loves maiming charcetrs

I think Jeyne would have to be dead in order for Jon to think she was Arya, and even then he'd probably spot the deception.

If Roose is coming Stannis has issues. Unlike Ramsay, Roose is battle tested and usually the smartest guy in the room.

Agree about Manderly.

I think Bran is at work

Great to have you back. Send out a call to Boaz. I miss him as well.
 
TK, good to see you again!

I have to agree with Imp about Jeyne's nose, GRRM just likes to do that! No way Jon would mistake her for Arya! Regardless of any disfigurement, even Theon knew her eyes were the wrong color.
 
Maybe GRRM is foresdhadowing Jeyne and Tyrion. Between the two of them they'll have one good nose :D
 
Bran is back! Ravens are his ayes and mouth, and all of North is at his disposal! Har, har, har.

Stannis Baratheon, I'll say one thing, if he was older than Robert, there probably wouldn't be ASoIaF, ruthless efficiency, right trait for the King. Unfotunately for Stannis (lucky for us) GRRM also takes one more think in consideration when imagining his world, and that is chance, bad or good, it is equally important as competence, bravery or intelligence in Westeros.

Not much to say about Ramsay, he is not dumb, as dumb psychopaths don't live long (normal people are also very efficient in eliminating that kind of treat among them), so they either learn to hide their nature, or to use it in right field (making of lord that is feared through the realms). But he is facing untimely and I believe quite gruesome death soon.

Theon/Reek, now mingled for eternity. Well Theon's unjustified egoism is gone, and I even begin to like this character. He will be saved by Bran, for what purpose remains to be seen.

Conflict at the Wall, battle at Winterfell, lot of stuff brewing for tWoW, hope it delivers all it promises ;)
 
You guys all seem to be forgetting that Roose actually knows that Ramsay wants to kill him. Roose knows that Ramsey killed his son, too. All of Ramsey's best friends are all secretly working for Roose. Ramsey is stupid, too. All of this adds up to Roose being perfectly safe from Ramsey.
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I agree with needle on the fact that Ramsay's 'friends' really work for Roose, however since this is GRRM I will make a prediction that Ramsay kills his father anyway (perhaps Roose shows overconfidence?).

Now, although I think Ramsay may kill Roose, I don't think he is as much of a threat to the Northern Lords as Wiggum was making out. Maniacal cruelty is not the advantage you are making it out to be, because every one of them is ruthless and cruel.

This is not a maniacal and ruthless killer that is dropped in the middle of your local Walmart on Black Friday, but rather a maniacal and ruthless killer that is dropped among ruthless killers. The difference is that he is rabid, and so the others will remove him - the author has foreshadowed this in several places (including out of the mouth of Roose himself).

On a slightly lighter note, the whole situation with Ramsay reminds me of the plot of the show "Bully Beat Down". If you've never seen the show, watch an episode on youtube to see what happens to cruel and malicious men when faced with guys that really (really, really) aren't intimidated.
 
So are we meant to believe that the raven with the map may not have made its way back to Winterfell (because Bran is able to influence this maester's ravens' behaviour)?
 
Ursa major said:
So are we meant to believe that the raven with the map may not have made its way back to Winterfell (because Bran is able to influence this maester's ravens' behaviour)?
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I think that given what we saw from Bran in aDWD, controlling a raven may be very light lifting compared to what Bran might be able to do.
 
Like NenanBulaja, I don't believe the raven was sent astray (which was always unlikely), only that GRRM wants us to think that it may have been (which would, given GRRM's tricksiness, be par for the course).
 
But, how do we explain the fact that in the chapter, the ravens repeat certain words only when they are said by someone, mostly Stannis, except for one word. "Tree".

If we take the theory above, it is Bran who is talking through the raven and who wants them to take Theon to the heartree on the island. To what end, I am not sure. So that he can speak with him. To save him, most like. I don't think it would be in Bran's nature to want to see Theon dead, whether he be Ned's son or not.
 
Bran does have the advantage of knowing that Theon didn't kill Rickon and... well... Bran. Perhaps he sees the injustice in a man suffering (and on the way to his execution) for something he didn't do. (Ned did bang on a lot about duty, so I expect Bran, who always wanted to be a knight (probably of the type that Sansa used to dream about), is doing his duty by Theon.




Or perhaps the ravens like trees (or can only recall the first syllable of the word, treason)....
 
Mesanna said:
There's a sample chapter from Winds of Winter up on GRRM's web site ... !

If you don't mind spoilers, go read then we can discuss. :D
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Ugh... I hate the colors and font contrasts on his page. So hard to read!!!
Make background white and leave the rest purple lol
 
Any idea where Stannis is? Just some random tower somewhere or is he maybe at Moat (something!) can't remember :eek: at the neck? If he is there he may have a real chance of surviving the coming battle.
 
I don't think that he can be anywhere near the Neck. That's a long way south of Winterfell and I think it's pretty clear that Stannis is not that far from Roose's current headquarters.

(Apart from anything else, Stannis's forces are having trouble travelling through the snow, so he would have to have a very good reason to take them far beyond Winterfell.)
 
As long as most of the northern lords have their kin being held hostage they will be loyal to who ever the king tells them to be loyal to. Just like they are doing now.
 
Well, I gave in and read it and am glad I did. I agree that Bran is "listening" in to Stanis and Theon and all the "guests" coming and going. Not at all certain he would divert the raven with the map, he may well want men to ride against Stanis as once in the woods it would seem to me he has access and who knows what troubles he might be able to bring or incite. Also not certain the youthful, green boys are as useless as depicted, these young lads have dealt with this type of winter up in their moutains while for most of the northmen Winter, as we are seeing it this time, is just a memory, if that. There leader is cagy and clearly capable of guerilla warfare, here an unseen hole, there a deadfall tree, ambushing small scouting parties you name it.

The wait was already excruciating and frankly after reading this chapter that pain level has gone up, it is going to be a long, long year.
 
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