On recieving conflicting critiques

[AMB]

There is a difference between plausible and predictable. Something plausible can surprise the reader, yet still have them nodding and saying "ah, that makes sense." Life is full of these moments (and even some that are not very plausible, but nevertheless real. We can't really write those ones though*, because they are not 'realistic').

Predictable however, is something can be spotted a mile away. It is possible to write something predictable that still takes the reader on a fun, enjoyable journey, but it is hard to accomplish. Usually if something is predictable the reader finds themselves switching off.

ETA: *okay, we can actually write about them. But you know what I mean. Fiction should adhere to rules that real life doesn't have to.

 

[Ursa major]

My only win in the 75-word challenge was a 7(b).

 

[Nik]

I've just read that list and my only comment is to mutter 'Ouch'. A couple of tentative notions for my next project have just died a timely death.

I've also bookmarked the page against the next time I don't take a long, dark look at my plots...

 

[Aun Doorback]

Hex - Good link, I think that probably kills off the SF market for the next 3 years

 

[Venusian Broon]

I think it should be in line with your world, not something at odds with it, rather than predictable. plus, when does it become predictable; in the last couple of chapters, half way through, near the start? I'd be a bit bored if I read a book and knew what woudl happen right from the start, but could probably live with it nearer the end. I'm a pretty tolerant reader, though, so others might disagree.

I wish I could tell you when it started getting predictable, then I could sort it out!

It was only a 2000 word short story so it is all self-contained and standalone and I would say that the ending is 'inline'.

My guess is that she actively tackled my story thinking "This is all a bit wierd, I wonder how this is going to end" and thought it through on some 'plot meta-structure logic'. Or she missed the actual intent of the final thousand words of the story. (And hence this was my fault for not writing it clear enough )

Thinking about her critique critically, she also noted that 'The ending is a bit predictable...The (event X in the story)* is as it stands the only possible outcome'

mmm, yes there is in my eyes a neat and satisfying end which translates into only one possible ending.

I really do need to get an improved draft to someone with the same ending to see if it triggers a similar response. I think I'm far too close to the words to notice


* I withhold the event on the tiny chance someone from the forums may read this story one day! It would detract from the reading experience.

 

[Hex]

oops sorry. I didn't mean to kill anything.

But I must say that sometimes when I read writing advice I wonder who they have in mind. This is an example: http://www.jameswhiteaward.com/advice -- which has lots of good advice, but also stuff like this:

"...if you have to send us a paper copy of your manuscript, use white paper. Not grey. Not yellow. Not pink. Definitely not pink. If you’re relying on coloured paper to get attention for your story, your story probably isn’t good enough."

To return from my tangent to the point of the thread: I'd agree that you might find it hard to judge for yourself. I'd get a couple of people who are not afraid of hurting your feelings to read it for you. That's harder to do than it sounds, though.

 

[Brian G Turner]

But I must say that sometimes when I read writing advice I wonder who they have in mind. This is an example: http://www.jameswhiteaward.com/advice

Some great pointers on there - especially like this part on editing:

• Why is this moment important for these characters?
• How do these events take me closer to the end of the story?
• What is different in my story after this scene?

 

[Starchaser3000]

So far, the critique on my work has been.

1. The first 5 pages bored me. So I quit reading.

My argument. The first 10 to 15 pages is like a prologue of a somewhat drawn out "Once upon a time in a kingdom far far away" theme about two friends going to a plain old social gathering. The more EXCITING sex and violence and controversial political and racial undertones is well on its way.

2. The name of your protagonists are silly, and those names turn me off.

My argument: My book is a parody-satire/spoof of the fiction-fantasy genre. The absurd names are merely my own artistic expression in my disregard for the more long winded names that is the general norm in many but not all in this genre.

Other than that, I have gotten enough encouraging feedback on the rest that motivated me to self publish. And I have to say its been good so far. I intend to have my second volume even better.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

Two things come to my mind the first pages need to grip there's no use saying it gets good later and we all struggle with how to do it because you're right the context aint out there yet and why justify? If they didn't like and others do that's what you'd expect and its up to them why they don't

 

[Starchaser3000]

Well only the over analytical and meticulous feel this way. The people that "get it" like it.

 

[mosaix]

the first pages need to grip

Excellent and fundamental advice.

Lawrence Block in his book 'Telling Lies for Fun and Profit' advises, when writing murder mysteries, to "Swap the first two chapters round."

What he means is that lots of murder mysteries have the first chapter 'setting the scene' - introducing the characters etc., and the second chapter committing the murder. Write the story that way by all means but publish it with these two chapters swapped round (and a little bit of editing no doubt.)

One obvious thing that people forget is that a story doesn't have to be told in sequence. Grab the reader with the 'murder' then 'set the scene'.

If your story doesn't grab the reader then someone else's will.

 

[Starchaser3000]

Murder mystery fans should never have to read my book.

 

[mosaix]

Murder mystery fans should never have to read my book.

I understand that, Starchaser. But the fundamental principle (grab the reader) applies to most fiction.

 

[Starchaser3000]

True, but I was told to do the switch Chapter 2 and 1 for a more action packed beginning. But I wanted the more "In a magical kingdom far away theme" that just plainly explains the antagonist and the protagonists in a somewhat drawn out prologue before BAM!!!!!!! The reader is bombarded with the action and from there the plot moves on at a steady pace. Is that somehow a formula for failure??

 

[mosaix]

Over here, Starchaser, we have a program on the TV about people who need help selling their houses (you may have similar programs in the States). Time and again the mistake that people make, when preparing their house for sale, is to 'dress' it according to their own tastes, rather than 'dress' it in a way that will appeal to the widest possible market.

 

[Starchaser3000]

This is true. I'm not writing for commercial success at all. My book express that most artistically.

 

[Ursa major]

Sorry, but I posted this not realising that there were already more posts on the next page.

But anyhow....

Well only the over analytical and meticulous feel this way. The people that "get it" like it.

But how is the average potential reader of your work meant to "get it"? If their first experience of your work seems dull to them, how can they be sure it will become gripping later on? And if that later on is six (or eleven or sixteen) pages in, how many of them are ever going to get to the more interesting stuff?


By the way, prologues are often added to books because Chapter One may not have enough action, or other sorts of hook, to draw the reader in and so a hook-ful scene is placed before it. This is based on the theory that if the reader is hooked by the time they reach Chapter One, they'll be prepared to be more lenient.

But it's probably true that sometime prologues do contain less-gripping, more scene-setting stuff. I'm guessing that these are the prologues that readers skip over (or skim) to get to Chapter One. Which begs the question: if the text in the prologue isn't going to be read, why place it at the front of the book, where it may put potential readers off? Why not wait until later in the book, when the reader is hooked and will appreciate, say, a change of pace?

 

[AnyaKimlin]

Having said that sometimes it can be reader interpretation. I've had one recently on an internet site with one reader who was annoyed with me because she had been under the impression my MC was a cat. (His cats are mentioned lol) -- I did check, but no other reader has gained that same impression so I have decided the review can be ignored now. However the person that mistook one of my lines for meaning one of my other character's was black gave me some inspiration and it pulled the whole book together.

With another story though only one reader objected to me having a waking up scene, although she said it wasn't cliche. After some thought despite her being the only one I agreed with her and it could be made better and just changed it a little to him lying on his bed reading a book. That allowed me to say what the book was about and sort out another anomaly in the first chapter. Although other readers didn't mind she was right.

I've had some really bizarre negative feedback because I write gay MCs - and have had people say they loved it but I needed to change them, some less polite etc No it's not realistic but it's a cosy mystery set in a made up town. I don't need to portray it that accurately and I can treat their sexuality as something others accept. Within their criticisms I have found some useful comments but now I just warn people. However I'm not going to straighten up my boys

My humour sketches are usually very postively received but sometimes it is a case of a reader not getting they are supposed to be funny.

 

[Starchaser3000]

Sorry, but I posted this not realising that there were already more posts on the next page.

But anyhow....


But how is the average potential reader of your work meant to "get it"? If their first experience of your work seems dull to them, how can they be sure it will become gripping later on? And if that later on is six (or eleven or sixteen) pages in, how many of them are ever going to get to the more interesting stuff?


By the way, prologues are often added to books because Chapter One may not have enough action, or other sorts of hook, to draw the reader in and so a hook-ful scene is placed before it. This is based on the theory that if the reader is hooked by the time they reach Chapter One, they'll be prepared to be more lenient.

But it's probably true that sometime prologues do contain less-gripping, more scene-setting stuff. I'm guessing that these are the prologues that readers skip over (or skim) to get to Chapter One. Which begs the question: if the text in the prologue isn't going to be read, why place it at the front of the book, where it may put potential readers off? Why not wait until later in the book, when the reader is hooked and will appreciate, say, a change of pace?

Because I like the way mine is written already with the drawn out prologue in the beginning. I don't want to copy everyone else by just putting a generic action sequence to supposedly "get the readers attention." The whole body of work should speak for itself. Novel idea huh? I mean who cares if the first few pages are supposed to be exciting but the rest of the story sux and is boring.

 

[Interference]

There are so many ways of grabbing attention, it is often nothing to do with "action" sequences. It seems to me, Starchaser, that the advice you were given could be taken in two ways (at least), but the underlying criticism was that the opening didn't grab.

And that, I sincerely and respectfully suggest, is something you could beneficially address. Something as simple as a new choice of words for the opening sentence might be all that's required. While I concur utterly with the "first pages have to grab" maxim, I think it's commonly held that it all starts with the first sentence. The first premise of one's opening sentence should engage at once so that the reader must continue so s/he can find out where the second sentence will take them. Then, once they're on the roller coaster, you can ease up a bit.



Call me Ishmael.

Ok, but why?



Last night I dreamt I went to Manderley again.

Really? Why don't you just go there?



It is a truth universally acknowledged, that a single man in possession of a good fortune, must be in want of a wife.

Hmm, I'm not so sure about that, so why do you say so?



And possibly my favourite:



Happy families are all alike; every unhappy family is unhappy in its own way.




Actually, here's another one that benefits from a single word:

If you really want to hear about it, the first thing you'll probably want to know is where I was born, and what my lousy childhood was like, and how my parents were occupied and all before they had me, and all that David Copperfield kind of crap, but I don't feel like going into it, if you want to know the truth.

IMO, the single word in question is "lousy". Take that out and, no, I really don't care to know any more about you, sir

Simples