Kindle books versus oldfashioned ones ??

[Vertigo]

(But yes. The screen thing is the main issue for me. I would actually consider a decent e-reader better if they were bigger than a phone screen.)

Karn, most (all probably) ereaders have screens considerably bigger than phones. They are typically about the same size as a paperback with a 5" to 6" screen.

Oh and if, as you suggest and like me, you haven't got the best eyesight then the ability to bump up the font is just wonderful. More page turning but less eyestrain; that's actually a benefit I hadn't anticipated but is now one of the main pros for me.

 

[Overread]

On Kindle the books you buy through Amazon are NOT tied to the Kindle itself. Instead when you get the Kindle you also set yourself a Kindle account. This account (held and kept by Amazon) basically stores all the purchase history of your Kindle unit. Every book you buy is linked to the account.

As such you can use the account to keep books you've bought on (last I recall) up to 3 separate systems at the same time (the Kindle software works on the Kindle - your PC - many phones/tablets etc...). Furthermore you can remove books from your Kindle and, provided they are bought on Amazon, they'll simply be kept on Amazon.


So if you lose your e-reader or kids throw it down the stairs your books are totally safe. The only content you would lose is any independent books, articles, etc.. that you've stored on the unit. For these you can keep backups on your computer - backup hard-drives and online storage websites.
Furthermore if they are books chances are they came from either another online shop (which would likely keep an account history and re-access like Amazon) or they are from the copyright free archives and thus you'd just have to download them again.



Kindles are not good for book collectors, nor are current versions that brilliant at technical books or art books or anything that requires images. However for stories, for written text books and for reading they are fantastic. I think the quick popularity amongst readers is because readers want to read the story and the story itself is the greater part of the experience - and reading is all what the Kindle is about.

 

[Warren_Paul]

(But yes. The screen thing is the main issue for me. I would actually consider a decent e-reader better if they were bigger than a phone screen.)

Ebook readers are easier to read than paperbacks because the screens are the same size as a paperback, sometimes bigger, yet as Vertigo said; you can increase the size of the font and zoom in and out.

I suspect eReaders will disappear, and probably pretty soon at that, to be replaced by a single device (mobile, reader, web browser, camera etc.)

That would be the Ipad, Vertigo.

Only problem I have with the Ipad is that it's more a tablet PC - the screen glares like a computer screen, not the same as an ebook reader. Once they make colour e-ink I'll be sold on getting a multimedia device. I'm quite interested in the Kindle Fire though, which is Amazon's answer to the Ipad, but I'd never use the Fire to read books.




I'm sure we all remember this news article about an announcement last year by Amazon:

Since April the first, for every 100 print-and-paper books Amazon has sold, it's also sold 105 e-books, according to a fresh Amazon announcement.

Kindle e-readers arrived, along with a small but fast-growing digital bookstore, in November 2007--by July 2010, Amazon notes, Kindle book sales had surpassed hardcover book sales, and then six months later beat the paperback books sales rate. Now Amazon's customers are "choosing Kindle books more often than print books. We had high hopes this would happen eventually, but we never imagined it would happen this quickly," says CEO Jeff Bezos, comparing Amazon's 15-year heritage of selling physical books to just four years of e-book sales.

This is far from the end of the road for the ink-and-paper. The fact that buyers at Amazon are now buying Kindle books at a rate that's already three times faster than they did for the same period is pretty astonishing, and the fact that sales now beat physical books is a huge sign of the change in reading habits. But even considering Amazon's reported sales trends, it'll take years yet for physical books to be relegated to a tiny minority, which also assumes the incredible growth in e-book sales continues at its current rate. Plus there're many fans of the paper book that'll probably never fully switch to buying only e-books. Why would they? The book has been with us as a technology for millennia, in different formats, and it has an important role in all our societies (easy to wave Chairman Mao's little red book, much less meaningful to waggle a Kindle in the air...swearing on an e-Bible on a Kindle in court, and so on).

My reason for saying that ebooks are going to take over is that eventually the generations that loved printed books will pass on, leaving those who grew up with ebooks to continue reading. Books WILL go the same way as music has, CDs barely exist any more. I've seen several local music shops close down recently because people buy their music over Itunes now, instead of going into the store.

This is the same reaction as when computers came into popularity for home use, many older people, who hadn't grown up with them were anti-computers and didn't understand the point to them, or how to use them. That is almost a thing of the past now.

My second reason is the good effect ebooks have on the enviroment. Green parties have been pushing for ways to cut down on the butchering of trees. Ebooks are one of the best ways they can do that.

 

[Karn Maeshalanadae]

Ebook readers are easier to read than paperbacks because the screens are the same size as a paperback, sometimes bigger, yet as Vertigo said; you can increase the size of the font and zoom in and out.

Books aren't really all that reflective, however. Electronic screens are, whether they're glare-free or not.

And something happening to the e-reader, I wasn't talking about replacing the data-I was talking about how much it would cost to replace the piece itself.

 

[Pyan]

Green parties have been pushing for ways to cut down on the butchering of trees. Ebooks are one of the best ways they can do that.

I shouldn't worry too much about the "butchering" of trees for books, WP - just about all the wood-pulp for them comes from commercially-grown softwood like spruce that's planted as a cash crop, like potatoes. The only real difference is that it's ten years before you harvest them, but it's essentially the same process.
On the other hand, timber from the deforestation of the Amazon, for example, is mainly hardwood, and goes into things like garden furniture - it's not really a major source of pulp for paper.

 

[Warren_Paul]

Books aren't really all that reflective, however. Electronic screens are, whether they're glare-free or not.

And something happening to the e-reader, I wasn't talking about replacing the data-I was talking about how much it would cost to replace the piece itself.

Sorry, Karn, but E-ink screens are less reflective than paper is. I find I need sunglasses to read paper when the sun is shining directly on it. I don't have that problem with my ereader - sunlight has no effect on it at all, except to make it easier to read. Of course the problem I do get is that the sun is so hot that I fear it might cause the reader to overheat. So that's an advantage in both directions.



Good point, Pyan.

 

[Overread]

"green" is a very abused term and I've no idea if its more green to use trees for books than if it is to produce electronics and power them with electricity.

As for the screen, it can reflect a bit in very strong lighting, but honestly its perfectly fine most of the time, used mine outside, indoors, on the train, car etc.... all without problems.


On the subject of CD shops shutting down - eh - to be honest I think the whole highstreet is slowing dieing. Whilst online shops can operate with such massivly reduced overheads and deliver to a much wider market the highstreet shop will suffer. Sadly until the overheads for highstreet shops lower one will keep seeing more and more closing down - leaving behind clothing/shoe and mobile phones in their place.

 

[Warren_Paul]

leaving behind clothing/shoe and mobile phones in their place.

Yes, it does seem like clothing and food will be the shops to survive the move to online shopping - you can buy fast food online, but you still have to go pick it up or get it delivered, which requires a physical shop. There are some cases of buying clothing online, but limited, because you really have to be able to try the clothes on in store or at least see them physically before you buy.

There are some cases where online shopping for clothes has worked well. A company over here called Ezibuy has been very successful as a mail catalogue clothing store.

Electronics might, because people want to see the TV on display beforehand, but already it's way better to buy computers/parts online, especially if you can assemble them yourself. Steam is destroying the local markets for computer game sales.

 

[Overread]

PC games aren't on the high street any more in the UK. Most of the smaller independant game retailers don't stock them at all and GAME only stock the latest 25 or so leading titles (along with HMV and a few others). I think the only place that might actually stock big numbers of games is PC World.

PC gaming has moved almost totally online either through Steam (or similar online services) or through Amazon.


Clothing - eh - my mothers tried that with ordering and its nearly always the same - you end up sending it back several times (taking weeks) just to get the size that fits. Whereupon whatever event or weather it was for has normally past by. For specialist clothes it makes sense, but for regular stuff highstreet!

Sadly I dislike the loss of the highstreet; and yet I'm criminal to it. When I can get books, games, camera gear - basically anything I want for less than in the shops and also (where I currently live) for less in postage than a train ticket to the big town.

 

[Vertigo]

That would be the Ipad, Vertigo.

Actually no, the Ipad is not there yet; you can't put an ipad in your pocket. And to my mind that is the criterion to identify a true mobile device. However they will be, when they get these foldable screens to a sensible price. And I don't think that will be far away. By foldable I mean that can be folded up like a piece of paper. They have developed them already but I've not yet seen them on mass market devices, so I'm guessing they're still too expensive.

I shouldn't worry too much about the "butchering" of trees for books, WP - just about all the wood-pulp for them comes from commercially-grown softwood like spruce that's planted as a cash crop, like potatoes. The only real difference is that it's ten years before you harvest them, but it's essentially the same process.
On the other hand, timber from the deforestation of the Amazon, for example, is mainly hardwood, and goes into things like garden furniture - it's not really a major source of pulp for paper.

I agree Pyan that all wood pulp cames from harvested wood, but do not underestimate the environmental damage of the mass monoculture planting that that involves. And probably more of a green concern is the toxic waste from the pulping process, particularly the bleaching I believe.

Overread does have a point about the production of the electronics but I think the production of one reader, which will likely be used to read at least several hundred books, will have less environmental impact than the production of those several hundred books.

The electricity used by an ereader is insignificant; an hour's charge on USB (very low power anyway) gives enough power for a couple of weeks. Note that here I mean an eInk reader not a tablet, like iPad, that uses massively larger amounts of electricity.

As a comparison I would guess that the electricity used to start your car just once would probably be enough for a month or so running an ereader. What you must understand about eReaders and eInk screens is that they only use electricity when you change the screen (ie turn the page)

 

[Overread]

What you must understand about eReaders and eInk screens is that they only use electricity when you change the screen (ie turn the page)

I normally turn all things off that I'm not using - if its not being used the power is off. The Kindle is the exception; I don't think I've ever turned it off. It just sits there waiting and ready. And just like you say its battery lasts for ages and ages (keep the wi-fi off for this - if you turn that on it drains out much faster).

 

[Vertigo]

Yes I should have qualified about the wifi. I don't have it and I don't particularly need it. I buy on the PC and always have a (virtual) pile of bought books waiting to be read.

And yes that's why you don't need to turn your Kindle off; so long as you aren't turning pages it is effectively off all the time!

 

[anivid]

Overread, I really don't understand your mother having all that trouble with buying cloths on the net.
Most net stores have VERY good tabels with measurements and sizes, if not, there's always the possibility to ask their service BEFORE buying.
I buy cloths in France and the U.S.A over the net - rarely any problems.
In France we have a system with "kiala points", meaning the goods can be send to a drugstore, newspaper shop etc. of your own choice near where you live, that way IF you have to have another size than foreseen, you just make the change over the net, and will at the same time be told WHEN the new size is in your kiala point - when the day arrives (usually within a week) you take the old one and go changing it for the new one.
Voila !!
As I see it, it's all about establishing proper systems

 

[Warren_Paul]

Overread, I really don't understand your mother having all that trouble with buying cloths on the net.
Most net stores have VERY good tabels with measurements and sizes, if not, there's always the possibility to ask their service BEFORE buying.
I buy cloths in France and the U.S.A over the net - rarely any problems.
In France we have a system with "kiala points", meaning the goods can be send to a drugstore, newspaper shop etc. of your own choice near where you live, that way IF you have to have another size than foreseen, you just make the change over the net, and will at the same time be told WHEN the new size is in your kiala point - when the day arrives (usually within a week) you take the old one and go changing it for the new one.
Voila !!
As I see it, it's all about establishing proper systems

To be fair, I used to work at the distribution centre for an online/mail clothes store here in NZ, and we did get a huge amount of returns. Maybe the proper systems were not in place, or maybe the customers didn't pay enough attention, I don't know. All I know is that there were returns coming in all the time.

 

[Pyan]

The electricity used by an ereader is insignificant; an hour's charge on USB (very low power anyway) gives enough power for a couple of weeks. Note that here I mean an eInk reader not a tablet, like iPad, that uses massively larger amounts of electricity.

I'd agree, emphatically - I've had mine for six months, with over a hundred books downloaded, a daily newspaper subscription and three monthly magazines. I keep the wi-fi off whenever possible, and I've had to recharge it (from ¼ power left) only seven times...

 

[Warren_Paul]

I'd agree, emphatically - I've had mine for six months, with over a hundred books downloaded, a daily newspaper subscription and three monthly magazines. I keep the wi-fi off whenever possible, and I've had to recharge it (from ¼ power left) only seven times...

Yes, battery life on ereaders are great. It amazing how it doesn't actually use power to display, just turn pages.

I've had mine for about as long too, and had to charge it even less. about 3-5 hours of use per day and I believe I've only charged it 4 times since I've had it. I don't use the wi-fi either, it auto turns off when not in use anyway. I wonder if certain brands have better battery life than others? You're use might be a bit more intensive than mine. Although some weekends I read all day.

I use the Sony Reader PRS-T1.

 

[Spade]

Okay, okay. People seem to say that they love their eReader, prefer it over paper books, etc,.


But let me ask you this: How much are you out if you ruin your eReader? How much if your Kindle gets old and no longer takes a charge, or if it gets stolen past warranty? If you ruin or lose a paper book, one is normally out no more than $10-$25, and the high end for being a new hardcover-and normally no more than $5 from a secondhand shop. Also, I would think that a paper book should be taking a high drop a bit better than a Kindle would. Say, from a second floor of stairs, perhaps by grabby kids?

I've got a two year warranty on mine for $20. I had my last e-reader for three years and took excellent care of it. I dropped it several times, slung it across the room on accident, etc. and it always worked. It's the same with a cell phone or a laptop or an mp3 player. You can drop it at any time and ruin it forever, but you hope that you don't.

 

[The Procrastinator]

(this is subtext on the subtopic raised above, so you can't see this. Returns on internet clothes are completely understandable. Ever gone into a shop, tried something on that is the "right size", and it doesn't suit you? Once against your skin the colour doesn't look as good as you first thought, or the cut of the garment doesn't quite go with the shape mother nature has bestowed on you... it's tight around the shoulders or wherever, or the cloth is itchy. So you put it back or give it to the staff or leave it in the change room...exactly the same thing. Until someone invents a standard human shape and applies it to the species, this is going to happen.) (Those of you lucky enough to have something close to a "mannequin" shape will probably not experience this inconvenience.)

Btw I don't know if I prefer my e-reader to actual books. But I get many of the same pleasures from reading with it as with paper books. There are some extra conveniences, like lightness and being able to balance the e-reader on your knee and eat chips, and being able to choose from a multiplicity of books when travelling instead of having to pick just one beforehand or fill bag with books. There are some lacks, too, like the no smell thing, the odd moment when you forget to charge the e-reader (my little cheapie has a battery that lasts me less than a week on one charge), the map problem in fantasy books, and footnotes (don't know if this is an issue for all e-readers or just my little cheapie). E-readers will never do the large scale book with pretty pictures thing as well as an actual physical book, either.

But I still think, for someone who loves to read, its a great addition to the arsenal. E-ink is a great technology for readers.

 

[Pyan]

I don't use the wi-fi either, it auto turns off when not in use anyway. I wonder if certain brands have better battery life than others? You're use might be a bit more intensive than mine. Although some weekends I read all day.

I use the Sony Reader PRS-T1.

I should have said that mine's a Kindle4, sorry. It doesn't have the auto turn-off thingy for wi-fi, which might explain the difference in battery use. Sounds like a good idea, but if I had it, I'd have to remember to switch it back on for my daily newspaper download and with the state of my memory these days, it's probably just as well it lacks this feature...

 

[Warren_Paul]

I should have said that mine's a Kindle4, sorry. It doesn't have the auto turn-off thingy for wi-fi, which might explain the difference in battery use. Sounds like a good idea, but if I had it, I'd have to remember to switch it back on for my daily newspaper download and with the state of my memory these days, it's probably just as well it lacks this feature...

Yeah, I've been pretty happy with the features of the Sony Reader. I think Kindle beats it for the online storefront though.

The wi-fi switches itself back on as soon as you do something that uses the internet, then switches off after 10mins of inactivity, so I don't even have to worry about telling it to connect again.

I also like that it supports epub, rather than being forced to use Amazon's mobi. Of course that means I can't buy ebooks off Amazon, unless I want to convert them, which although annoying, isn't that big of a deal. But every other site uses epub, so I'll just take my business elsewhere.